It Is Time: Fire the GM, the Coaching Staff, get some experience in here. Fans deserve better!!!

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

That really doesn’t make sense, we weren’t going to exactly get older on average even with a vet goalie and Levi being in Rochester. If Quinn’s healthy we likely would have dealt Olofsson and used another younger player, like Rousek, in that roster spot. 

Certainly, they just need to settle in more. We aren’t sinking; we are merely treading water presently 

Like I said, my point was more so that the statement had it backwards. The issue wasn’t proclaiming the expectations too high, it’s that, if we don’t make it, we didn’t ice a team that lived up to the (properly set) expectations. Playoffs remain the line. It’s not criminal to ice the youngest team but it’s by choice and doesn’t change expectations, and a few savvy moves for veteran players in areas of need would presumably bump the age up a bit. I’m not going to haggle with with you about “who even was there?”

the line is playoffs, the expectations weren’t incorrectly set 

[pi2000]

KA wanted to make additons but the players told him they wanted to move forward with the current group since they all get along so well.  

It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog.

[Wyldnwoody44]

My issue with coaching... This includes the assistants, as the coach has the power to change these. 

Our Perimeter play, and very soft play in general is 100% on coaching... If players are being coached to go to the dirty areas and they aren't, the coach needs to make changes. If they're not being coached to do so then that's a separate issue. Look at the slot when the Sabres play; I could set up a lawn chair and not worry about a breeze going by me. 

The PP is truly abysmal, I haven't seen a PP look so awful in years, no movement, stupid drop passes, odd man rushes against all the time. Simply unacceptable, that's a coaching issue. 

The overall defensive structure, what is it even!? Hey boys, go chase whoever you want and make out subpar goalies makes crazy saves. Again, coaching. 

I get that KA hasn't put DG in the greatest of situations, this team is very flawed, but putting KO on the PP and a struggling Cozens out in OT, you've gotta be better than that Donnieee. 

 

But hey, we hear about how well they get along and we get some funny social media videos from time to time so that makes it OK. 

This team has already alienated a whole generation with their crap play and they're trending Into another generation very quickly. Most other teams would have up and moved by now. 

[PerreaultForever]

This is Granato's 3rd full season and 4th if you count the partial. How many NHL coaches get to return if they have 4 losing years? Seriously asking. Any?

[Wyldnwoody44]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

This is Granato's 3rd full season and 4th if you count the partial. How many NHL coaches get to return if they have 4 losing years? Seriously asking. Any?

Only if you have incriminating pictures of your boss. 

Or, when in Buffalo 

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

KA wanted to make additons but the players told him they wanted to move forward with the current group since they all get along so well.  

It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog.

Is this factual (cause if it is it explains a lot) or are you just wagging your own back end and pulling things out of it?

[Thorner]

16 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

This is Granato's 3rd full season and 4th if you count the partial. How many NHL coaches get to return if they have 4 losing years? Seriously asking. Any?

Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500

Even better, it was ABOVE A DELUCA 0.500!!!!  THEY MADE THE PLAYOFFS too, because it's GUARANTEED to be there if you hit that MAJOR MILESTONE!!!!!

[Thorner]

Just now, Taro T said:

Even better, it was ABOVE A DELUCA 0.500!!!!  THEY MADE THE PLAYOFFS too, because it's GUARANTEED to be there if you hit that MAJOR MILESTONE!!!!!

Sir, this is a Wendy’s 

[Taro T]

 

Oh, wait, that DOESN'T guarantee playoffs?  But we were told it should.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500

Though, “winning season” can’t rightfully be considered synonymous with “good” anymore, necessarily: our winning season was good for 20th out of 32: so, in essence, a below average result. So perhaps “winning season” is ultimately semantics in this case

Edited November 23, 2023 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

52 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

KA wanted to make additons but the players told him they wanted to move forward with the current group since they all get along so well.  

If this is true, Adams needs to grow a pair. I understand keeping a core group together, but KA must fix the holes in the lineup.  If a guy isn’t carrying his weight a good GM moves on.  Truthfully Adams should know better.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500

I'm sorry but that bar is too low for me. 16 teams make the playoffs the other half fail. 

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

Last year can’t rightfully be called a losing year considering we were above .500

We call this "spin"

[sabremike]

The way that almost everyone has nosedived and regressed this season is such a damning indictment of the entire coaching staff. A serious organization would recognize this and take appropriate action (ie: Start handing out pink slips and hiring competent pros who are actually good at their jobs). The worst organization in modern hockey history (us) will simply do nothing, continue to fail forever and wonder why they keep failing.

[Carmel Corn]

It's professional sports....when the team fails to meet expectations, then the coach(s) is typically the fall guy.  The Bills finally made a change and fired Dorsey, whether he deserved it or not.  I personally don't buy the argument that Granato bears no responsibility here (vs. GMKA only).  His roster is not significantly different from last year, yet his team is near the bottom of the conference and is already at a statistical disadvantage for making the playoffs.

[Dr. Who]

7 hours ago, pi2000 said:

KA wanted to make additons but the players told him they wanted to move forward with the current group since they all get along so well.  

It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog.

He's over-corrected for the previous toxic atmosphere. I don't know what the answers are, but from my distant perspective, I'd like to see KA choose a core of young players not yet on the club or just starting as keepers (eg. Kulich, Rosen, Levi, and Benson,) and put everyone else on the table for trades. It would probably do him good to even take less than how he values someone to break the ice in a trade. He's too scared to lose a trade, or too emotionally invested in his players. And really, I'd like to hire Michael Peca as HC. If a team ultimately reflects the attitude of their coach, Peca would shape them into a team that wins, even at home, lol.

[Weave]

Based simply on points, the Sabres have 2 teams to leapfrog, and 2 teams they are tied with.  The season is still manageable, but they absolutely cannot get into a situation where they have more teams to leapfrog over for that last playoff spot.

The season really is in the balance.  Right. Now.  They can’t afford to wait go on a run after Christmas.

[LTS]

2 hours ago, sabremike said:

The way that almost everyone has nosedived and regressed this season is such a damning indictment of the entire coaching staff. A serious organization would recognize this and take appropriate action (ie: Start handing out pink slips and hiring competent pros who are actually good at their jobs). The worst organization in modern hockey history (us) will simply do nothing, continue to fail forever and wonder why they keep failing.

I wonder why you keep putting energy into this team given all of its transgressions. If I felt as negative as it appears you do in your posts I would just tune the team out for awhile and save my sanity.

The team has regressed this year. It very probably has to do with the fact that they are a young team and they are not handling the expectations placed upon them. They are playing too tight. It could be that they just suck. The question is, are the players capable of playing better and the coaching staff is keeping them from achieving or is it that the players are not executing what the coaching staff expects?  I'm not sure we know the answer to that. There's a ton of speculation here. It was the same coach that had them playing better last year. So why have they regressed?

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

He's over-corrected for the previous toxic atmosphere. I don't know what the answers are, but from my distant perspective, I'd like to see KA choose a core of young players not yet on the club or just starting as keepers (eg. Kulich, Rosen, Levi, and Benson,) and put everyone else on the table for trades. It would probably do him good to even take less than how he values someone to break the ice in a trade. He's too scared to lose a trade, or too emotionally invested in his players. And really, I'd like to hire Michael Peca as HC. If a team ultimately reflects the attitude of their coach, Peca would shape them into a team that wins, even at home, lol.

Perhaps he did. But it's hard to say that an alternate path would have been better. That's the luxury everyone here has. First, hindsight is 20/20. Second, we can all make prognostications as to what changes are correct but we all make those without any direct insight into the organization or the league itself. It's pure speculation and certainly when it plays out negatively as predicted the justification is there. He could have made the changes people thought and it could have still not worked out to be any better.

When the Pegula family took over they tried all manner of quick fix solutions and they all failed. They've settled on a plan to build a team and by all accounts that was working.  For that I am at least thankful. The quick fixes only burned out all talent from this organization.

The fans will always have a shorter timeline than the organization because they continue to carry baggage of past management structures with them. That said, it's clear there are some changes that need to be made and the inflection point is upon us.

They have to decide on Benson. That alone requires them to take action. They have to decide on how to ice 6 defense and 12 forwards. This 11+7 crap is no way to ice a team. They need to move some bodies. Whether that's moving some of the prospects for players who can definitively help the team now or moving some of the vets blocking the prospects so the prospects can help the team now. Something has to change. The risk with bringing MORE youth in is that it's already a very young team.

The Sabres will be forced to make one of the less common December trades that helps the team turn things around. They aren't a team that will be able to wait for the deadline.

 

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, LTS said:

 

The fans will always have a shorter timeline than the organization because they continue to carry baggage of past management structures with them. That said, it's clear there are some changes that need to be made and the inflection point is upon us.

 

Yes... the fans who haven't seen the playoffs in a league record 12 years and counting have a bit of a shorter timeline than... maybe sometime or not

[Dr. Who]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

Perhaps he did. But it's hard to say that an alternate path would have been better. That's the luxury everyone here has. First, hindsight is 20/20. Second, we can all make prognostications as to what changes are correct but we all make those without any direct insight into the organization or the league itself. It's pure speculation and certainly when it plays out negatively as predicted the justification is there. He could have made the changes people thought and it could have still not worked out to be any better.

When the Pegula family took over they tried all manner of quick fix solutions and they all failed. They've settled on a plan to build a team and by all accounts that was working.  For that I am at least thankful. The quick fixes only burned out all talent from this organization.

The fans will always have a shorter timeline than the organization because they continue to carry baggage of past management structures with them. That said, it's clear there are some changes that need to be made and the inflection point is upon us.

They have to decide on Benson. That alone requires them to take action. They have to decide on how to ice 6 defense and 12 forwards. This 11+7 crap is no way to ice a team. They need to move some bodies. Whether that's moving some of the prospects for players who can definitively help the team now or moving some of the vets blocking the prospects so the prospects can help the team now. Something has to change. The risk with bringing MORE youth in is that it's already a very young team.

The Sabres will be forced to make one of the less common December trades that helps the team turn things around. They aren't a team that will be able to wait for the deadline.

 

I know it is all too easy to create a fable out of ignorance. It is largely just emotive venting, as nothing I suggest will have material effect. I do think they are forced to try something sooner rather than later.

[pi2000]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

I wonder why you keep putting energy into this team given all of its transgressions. If I felt as negative as it appears you do in your posts I would just tune the team out for awhile and save my sanity.

The team has regressed this year. It very probably has to do with the fact that they are a young team and they are not handling the expectations placed upon them. They are playing too tight. It could be that they just suck. The question is, are the players capable of playing better and the coaching staff is keeping them from achieving or is it that the players are not executing what the coaching staff expects?  I'm not sure we know the answer to that. There's a ton of speculation here. It was the same coach that had them playing better last year. So why have they regressed?

Perhaps he did. But it's hard to say that an alternate path would have been better. That's the luxury everyone here has. First, hindsight is 20/20. Second, we can all make prognostications as to what changes are correct but we all make those without any direct insight into the organization or the league itself. It's pure speculation and certainly when it plays out negatively as predicted the justification is there. He could have made the changes people thought and it could have still not worked out to be any better.

When the Pegula family took over they tried all manner of quick fix solutions and they all failed. They've settled on a plan to build a team and by all accounts that was working.  For that I am at least thankful. The quick fixes only burned out all talent from this organization.

The fans will always have a shorter timeline than the organization because they continue to carry baggage of past management structures with them. That said, it's clear there are some changes that need to be made and the inflection point is upon us.

They have to decide on Benson. That alone requires them to take action. They have to decide on how to ice 6 defense and 12 forwards. This 11+7 crap is no way to ice a team. They need to move some bodies. Whether that's moving some of the prospects for players who can definitively help the team now or moving some of the vets blocking the prospects so the prospects can help the team now. Something has to change. The risk with bringing MORE youth in is that it's already a very young team.

The Sabres will be forced to make one of the less common December trades that helps the team turn things around. They aren't a team that will be able to wait for the deadline.

 

They're playing a more defensively responsible style this year.   

This is early season growing pains for a young team learning how to play winning hockey.

Would they have more goals and maybe a better record if they continued playing fire wagon hockey?  Maybe.   But we know that can only take them so far.

If they can manage to stay around 500 while implementing a new system, then it should pay off in the second half of the season.

That said, until they stop making dumb mistakes and poor personell decisions, I'm not sure Granato is the guy to help them take that next step.

And lastly, Levi needs to be sent down, he has glaring weaknesses that need attention.   He needs more than a spot start once a week to develop this early in his career.

Benson should be sent down, it's best for him and his long term development.  Let him and Savoie continue to build chemistry.

[Pimlach]

19 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

They're playing a more defensively responsible style this year.   

This is early season growing pains for a young team learning how to play winning hockey.

Would they have more goals and maybe a better record if they continued playing fire wagon hockey?  Maybe.   But we know that can only take them so far.

If they can manage to stay around 500 while implementing a new system, then it should pay off in the second half of the season.

That said, until they stop making dumb mistakes and poor personell decisions, I'm not sure Granato is the guy to help them take that next step.

And lastly, Levi needs to be sent down, he has glaring weaknesses that need attention.   He needs more than a spot start once a week to develop this early in his career.

Benson should be sent down, it's best for him and his long term development.  Let him and Savoie continue to build chemistry.

Good post.

It will sting to send Benson down because he is one of our better forwards this season  - and that says a lot about the roster that Adams has constructed during the off season.  

 

[Flashsabre]

25 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Good post.

It will sting to send Benson down because he is one of our better forwards this season  - and that says a lot about the roster that Adams has constructed during the off season.  

 

I agree. If they sign Kane and Quinn returns then it more then replaces anything Benson will bring this season. Let him go to the WJCs and then back to junior to get faster and stronger.

He will be a special player.

Adams needs to figure out this forward group moving forward.  Kulich, Benson, Savoie, Rosen, Östlund, Wahlberg all look like NHL forwards. Peterka is taking off, Quinn should too when he gets back to his old self. Where do all these guys fit? They all won’t so who stays who goes. They really need a physical forward that loves the slot. Dirty goal type player.

a 4th Line centre that wins battles and face offs and is solid defensively would Ben a big help too. 

Find a landing spot for VO.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Flashsabre

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I agree. If they sign Kane and Quinn returns then it more then replaces anything Benson will bring this season. Let him go to the WJCs and then back to junior to get faster and stronger.

He will be a special player.

Adams needs to figure out this forward group moving forward.  Kulich, Benson, Savoie, Rosen, Östlund, Wahlberg all look like NHL forwards. Peterka is taking off, Quinn should too when he gets back to his old self. Where do all these guys fit? They all won’t so who stays who goes. They really need a physical forward that loves the slot. Dirty goal type player.

a 4th Line centre that wins battles and face offs and is solid defensively would Ben a big help too. 

Find a landing spot for VO.

I'm on the fence about Benson, though I am leaning towards having him stay. Is he better right now than the guy who will replace him when sent to the CHL? probably 

I also wonder if him going back and dominating the CHL is in his best interest. 

At some point, they have to play their best players AND do everything they can to win.

Until Adams give him a full compliment of players, I think it is unfair to penalize Granato by firing him.  Plusa, I want him to be around to work with all their prospects...

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Crusader1969