GDT: Wild @ Sabres - Nov 10, 2023 - 7:00pm, MSG-B/ESPN+📺WGR📻

[Pimlach]

27 minutes ago, Spoonman said:

Sorry for delay @Pimlach

Here you go. I am not telling Mrs. Pimlach.... 🤐

 

Spooner, She is probably younger than my daughter, so off limits.  

[NAF]

I'm the biggest Mittelstadt hater on earth but he has legitimately been the Sabres best player through these first 14 games.

[Carmel Corn]

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Adam’s needs to bring in a good veteran forward that can add quality 2 way minutes. Not a JAG. 
 

Savoie played 3:55, Krebs 6:05, Jost 10:29, Rousek 13:14.  
 

We need help.  

Sounds logical to me....which is why GMKA will not do it (unfortunately).

[Pimlach]

12 minutes ago, Night Train said:

 Not so much hurting...but he's slow to process the speed around him quite often when the opposition attacks. I like his size and he makes some good passes. Yet he's got a ton to improve on and I'm still quite surprised they gave him the larger deal instead of a bridge contract. That was way too soon but here we are. 

I laughed when someone posted Joker has the privledge of playing with him. Holy deity. He's not there yet. Not even close. 

Lots of complaints about Power and they started in the first week of the season.  As if people expect a “sophomore slump”.  People are judging him on next years contract.  I look at him as a kid with 100+ high minute NHL games before he hits 21.  
 

I looked at the fancy stats posted in another thread and it looks like he is playing very good hockey.  My eye test says he is playing well.   I think he will get only stronger and more confident, and once he processes faster (thinks less) he will be harder to play against.  His contract could be a very nice deal in the long term as the cap increases. 

When you play 24 minutes a game there will be moments that don’t look good.  That seems to be what gets remembered.  
 

 

[Pimlach]

19 minutes ago, NAF said:

I'm the biggest Mittelstadt hater on earth but he has legitimately been the Sabres best player through these first 14 games.

We watched him evolve from a talented but unfinished kid that needed conditioning and time in the AHL.   Under DG he has become  to 2-way, 60+ point center.   

Why do you hate him?   He was mishandled and rushed into the NHL.  Now he is a 6’1” and 195 lb beast with great hands (sick mitts).   He is an example of the reason you don’t rush Kulich, Rosen, etc.  

[Pimlach]

24 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Sounds logical to me....which is why GMKA will not do it (unfortunately).

He won’t bring in just any JAG, or a blocker.  It would have to be an Eric Johnson type of player, some tread on the tires, capable of quickly gaining respect and willing to lead/teach.   I think we need a center for the 4th line.  Not seeing Krebs as ready for it.  Jost is more of a 13th man utility player.  

Edited November 11, 2023 by Pimlach

[Mango]

8 hours ago, SabresBillsFan said:

^This is spot on. To me Cozens doesn’t look like he should have played. 

I really liked Cozens last year. But I have not liked his game at all this year, bar a few moments. 

Struggling to put last night on the injury. I’ve been waiting for him to find his game for a month now. I’m shifting from patient to whiny. 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

We watched him evolve from a talented but unfinished kid that needed conditioning and time in the AHL.   Under DG he has become  to 2-way, 60+ point center.   

Why do you hate him?   He was mishandled and rushed into the NHL.  Now he is a 6’1” and 195 lb beast with great hands (sick mitts).   He is an example of the reason you don’t rush Kulich, Rosen, etc.  

I agree with your point that physical maturity simply takes time to achieve. Rob Ray talked about the turnaround in play for Mitts in a game last year. He said exactly what you said in your previous response regarding getting stronger. It wasn't until he became stronger that he was able to handle the rigors of the NHL. Kulich and Rosen are excellent prospects. By allowing them more time to play and to physically develop in the AHL, they will be in a better position to succeed when they move up to the higher league. You can see this same maturing process evident with Peterka. Believe in the process and don't try to short-circuit it. 

[Pimlach]

39 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Clifton seemed out of sync in his first few games. It seems to me that he is getting more comfortable and more effective. Playing on the third pair with the older Johnson is the right role for him. I liked his play in this game. 

It appears that our eyes are watching the same game and seeing different things. On the other hand, I do like the play of Eric Johnson. He is a stabilizer. 

I can’t think of any Clifton mistakes since he came back from the suspension.  I see him playing the body and being solid defensively.   The weird puck deflections off of him for goals against, the trip up for a goal against -  those plays are not his total game contribution.  
 

EJohnson is a valuable addition.  Calling him a “Stabilizer” is spot on!   I want Adams to find an EJohnson pick up for the bottom 6.  The season is long, the playoff chase is a grind, I think we need similar veteran help at forward.  

[mjd1001]

46 minutes ago, Night Train said:

 Not so much hurting...but he's slow to process the speed around him quite often when the opposition attacks. I like his size and he makes some good passes. Yet he's got a ton to improve on and I'm still quite surprised they gave him the larger deal instead of a bridge contract. That was way too soon but here we are. 

I laughed when someone posted Joker has the privledge of playing with him. Holy deity. He's not there yet. Not even close. 

I'm there for the most part with you on Power. I think overall he is good, but he still plays sometime like he is a 20 year old D-man in a league where D-men play the best in their late 20's.  Sometimes I try to do this....I don't think of him as "Owen Power, former first overall pick" but just watch him with no expectations assigned to him.  What do I personally see?  A very good (at times) young D-man who opens your eyes with some plays, but at other times plays without confidence. 

I swear some times he'll pick up a loose puck in his own zone, skate by a defender with ease, find an open area on the ice, scan the ice, and make a great neutral zone pass leading to a scoring chance. But then other times he'll be in that exact same situation and fumble with the puck again before making a very hasty pass or slapping it up the boards when he had time to do so much  more.  To me, that is a young guy who just needs a little more experience.

I don't think he is a problem overall for this team at all.  But at the moment he can still be so much better.

[French Collection]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

EJohnson is a valuable addition.  Calling him a “Stabilizer” is spot on!   I want Adams to find an EJohnson pick up for the bottom 6.  The season is long, the playoff chase is a grind, I think we need similar veteran help at forward.  

If Krebs can’t be a solid 4C then KA needs to find an angry Larry. I think Krebs has this in him but he needs to buy in and work hard to nail down that role.

[DarthEbriate]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't think he is a problem overall for this team at all.  But at the moment he can still be so much better.

...So you're saying his ceiling is... unlimited?

2 minutes ago, French Collection said:

If Krebs can’t be a solid 4C then KA needs to find an angry Larry. I think Krebs has this in him but he needs to buy in and work hard to nail down that role.

We saw Krebs begin to take that 4C role and be an Angry Krebs last year. It doesn't need to provide a lot of points (no one will produce a lot of points between Okposo and Girgs at this stage in their careers), but he's mishandled the puck, not cycled well, and certainly hasn't shown his anger yet this year. Unleash your anger, Krebs. Only your hatred can make you an NHL mainstay.

Edited November 11, 2023 by DarthEbriate

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Nice win.

[mjd1001]

I saw some of the game last night but didn't watch it start to finish:

-Krebs with only about 6 minutes of ice time...did he get hurt at all or is his play really that bad that the coaching staff has had enough of it?

-Mitts and Greenway leading in terms of ice time.  I know Casey is playing good, but 22+ minutes? possibly a function of Cozens only getting 14 as they ease him back in and the desire to not play Krebs much?   

-I liked how Dahlin had a few games with reduced minutes and, some games, he didn't even lead the team. But he was back up to over 25 minutes. I really wish they would keep that down. But, I guess when you are playing a close game you really want to win, if you need him on the ice, you need him on the ice.

Skinner now leading the team in points...7 goals...on 'pace' for over 40 goals this year.  It might be just me, but it seems like a very 'quiet' start for a guy who is producing so well (and I mean that in a good way)

Edited November 11, 2023 by mjd1001

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, French Collection said:

If Krebs can’t be a solid 4C then KA needs to find an angry Larry. I think Krebs has this in him but he needs to buy in and work hard to nail down that role.

He may be a solid 4C someday, but so far he is not that, and this year is about playoffs.  
 

If you want to get better as the season goes on I think the bottom 6 needs some help.  If Quinn can come back and pick up we’re he left off it helps as it pushes a weaker player down.  I prefer we add a 4C that can win draws, be solid defensively, and help with the dirty work.  Probably a rental but so what.  Win now.  

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I can’t think of any Clifton mistakes since he came back from the suspension.  I see him playing the body and being solid defensively.   The weird puck deflections off of him for goals against, the trip up for a goal against -  those plays are not his total game contribution.  
 

EJohnson is a valuable addition.  Calling him a “Stabilizer” is spot on!   I want Adams to find an EJohnson pick up for the bottom 6.  The season is long, the playoff chase is a grind, I think we need similar veteran help at forward.  

Your point is well taken regarding adding a veteran player or two for a playoff push. But based on the way KA has approached building this roster, I'm not sure that KA will do that. Our roster now has some depth, and Rochester has a number of prospects that are not too far away. My sense is that our GM is more inclined to stay within the system than to go outside of it for help. 

I don't know what Quinn's rehab timetable is. But if he can come back some time this season and return to form, the roster will be bolstered even more. 

[Pimlach]

33 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I saw some of the game last night but didn't watch it start to finish:

-Krebs with only about 6 minutes of ice time...did he get hurt at all or is his play really that bad that the coaching staff has had enough of it?

-Mitts and Greenway leading in terms of ice time.  I know Casey is playing good, but 22+ minutes? possibly a function of Cozens only getting 14 as they ease him back in and the desire to not play Krebs much?   

-I liked how Dahlin had a few games with reduced minutes and, some games, he didn't even lead the team. But he was back up to over 25 minutes. I really wish they would keep that down. But, I guess when you are playing a close game you really want to win, if you need him on the ice, you need him on the ice.

Skinner now leading the team in points...7 goals...on 'pace' for over 40 goals this year.  It might be just me, but it seems like a very 'quiet' start for a guy who is producing so well (and I mean that in a good way)

Mitts and Greenway can handle the heavy game from teams like Minnesota.   KO and Girgs played 14+ mins too.  

Tuch was missed.  Cozens was not even near 100 %.  

Rousek played more than Jost, and he played more than Krebs and Savoie combined. 
 

We criticize DG a lot here, this was a game were he managed things well.   Thankfully Levi was excellent, we needed 2 in regulation at home  and we got it   

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Pimlach

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Looked back at the goals allowed last night.

-First goal allowed on the PK:  Girgs and Okposo never get set up and are chasing the puck.  I think we have more than enough examples that when this team PK's....when they hold their positions, maintain the defensive box, they are very effective. When they start chasing the puck and cause their own confusion and over or under rotation, the opposing team finds the vacated areas and takes advantage.  

I have no idea who was supposed to be where, but on that goal, both Girgeonsons AND Okposo are chasing the puck not in any kind of position, and the D-men then get out of sorts also. The only explanation could be it was right off of the faceoff and they made a calculated decision by not playing positionally they had a chance of getting the puck out of the zone.

 

-2nd goal allowed:  PK/PP goal again.  This one if you have to place blame you put on Thompson, but it wasn't a huge error, but again the case of 'fading/favoring' toward the puck carrier when you already had teammates there.

The puck enters the zone and Johnson takes the puck carrier forcing a pass, good move. The next puck carrier cuts to the middle, Johnson is already recovering taking the puck carriers left, and Clifton is taking the passing lane (kind of).  You HOPE Clifton could block that pass, but I don't put it on him, he was where he should have been. Seeing Clifton is in front of the net there was no reason why Tage should have approached the puck carrier leaving the back door open for the eventual goal scorer to come in. 

Not a huge error, but yet another case of if the Sabres play their zones..hold their ground and fight the urge on the PK to help out near the puck when you have guys there already, they would be even better.  

 

On the PK, this team had to fight the urge to go to where the puck is when they already have coverage there. You are on the PK, you are going to be outnumbered. There have been a lot of PK goals allowed this year because they left a position open and the other team found it.  They seem to want to enter puck battles with their teammates instead. They seem to want to play the PK the same way they do in their own end when they are at even strength. You are going to be outnumbered on the PK, they have to learn to live with that and just play their position more.  D-men are pretty good at that, forward on the PK, not so much.

Your comments on the PK overloading on the puck carrier on the goals is spot on.  But interestingly, that is what the Wild were doing on the PK all game long and against the Sabres broken PP it was working.  Pretty sure that having 2 men in the board battles vs 1 Sabre is what they do against other teams as well (haven't watched any other of their games than just this one, but have seen that they've been the worst PK in the league letting in goals on every 3rd PP attempt against heading into last night) and 2 things should've happened from the Sabres side - they should've supported the player in the 1 on 2 battle to even it up and a 3rd Sabre should've been ready to get the puck and either take the puck directly to the net on the now 3v2 or ready to pass it to whomever is the now open player (like the Wild were doing on their PP when the Sabres PK broke down).  They didn't and the PP except for that one right at the end of the 2nd looked very discombobulated.

Wiith the Wild's backup goalie in net, their PK was set up to fail if the Sabres were smarter on the PP.  A really agressive PK can work (see Carolina's) but it absolutely needs a goalie that can stop the back door shot more often than not and also can stop the clean shot from the slot.  And while Fleury might be able to be that guy, their backup isn't.  They really need to learn to be less aggressive on the PK when they aren't playing PP's that have no clue.

But on that 1st goal for the Wild, Kaprisov just barely snuck that puck under Levi.  Levi is CLOSE to being good enough to stop most of those killer chances (and he did stop some others like that).  Will be interesting to see if the Sabres PK does become more aggressive later in the season if Levi gets even better at stopping those chances.

[French Collection]

I just watched DG’s post game interview, he made a point of patting Rousek on the back for his attention to detail. 
 

This is a guy who could become a 4W to spell KO once in a while.

[Taro T]

28 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I just watched DG’s post game interview, he made a point of patting Rousek on the back for his attention to detail. 
 

This is a guy who could become a 4W to spell KO once in a while.

Very possible.  But regardless of how things play out this year, expect he's pencilled into Okposo's slot on next year's roster.  They may decide they want to go outside to get a more veteran presence there if his play slides, but right now he has the inside track to that job.  (And things can definitely change.  Just barely over a year ago, it looked like that job was going to be Asplund's now.  THAT didn't happen.)

[K-9]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Clifton seemed out of sync in his first few games. It seems to me that he is getting more comfortable and more effective. Playing on the third pair with the older Johnson is the right role for him. I liked his play in this game. 

It appears that our eyes are watching the same game and seeing different things. On the other hand, I do like the play of Eric Johnson. He is a stabilizer. 

Clifton does not play with poise. He too often panics and makes unnecessary plays as a result, especially on clearing attempts. If he ever learns to take a beat and actually see the better play that’s available, he might turn into something. 

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, Believer said:

After the opposing team has control in our zone, couldn’t agree more… Reactive… Don’t appear to be coached to attack the puck… especially on the PK… Stand around moving the box… waiting for a shot or rush or pass near the net…  Rarely do our skaters at the top of the box challenge their QB or the puck above the circles.

This is a deliberate shift and the main reason why the PK is better. Last year, we’d chase and open a clear lane to the back door on a regular basis. Last night may have been the first back door PK goals we’ve allowed this year, and at least one of them was at least partly because of Okposo and Girgs pursuing hard up high.

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Lots of complaints about Power and they started in the first week of the season.  As if people expect a “sophomore slump”.  People are judging him on next years contract.  I look at him as a kid with 100+ high minute NHL games before he hits 21.  
 

I looked at the fancy stats posted in another thread and it looks like he is playing very good hockey.  My eye test says he is playing well.   I think he will get only stronger and more confident, and once he processes faster (thinks less) he will be harder to play against.  His contract could be a very nice deal in the long term as the cap increases. 

When you play 24 minutes a game there will be moments that don’t look good.  That seems to be what gets remembered.  
 

 

I think people notice the occasional botched breakouts and blueline keep-ins and take for granted the successful ones and don’t realize how often they happen. 

He does 10 good ones for every bad one. And he also 10 good ones for every good one a guy like EJ does.

Anyone paying attention knew from the day he was drafted he’d frustrate some for his lack of mean. They see the size and want Pronger, but his style is a lot more Lidstrom than Pronger.

He’s 20 and only played 100 NHL games. He’s got a lot to learn, but his competence at this level already is amazing.

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

I just watched DG’s post game interview, he made a point of patting Rousek on the back for his attention to detail. 
 

This is a guy who could become a 4W to spell KO once in a while.

He played in the 3rd while Savoie, Jost, Krebs and even Cozens didn’t, which is all you need to know about what Donnie thought.

First game I saw what I’d been hoping to see from Lukas. Think he’s earned another.

Related, there hasn’t been much chatter about how Donnie’s game day tactics have changed this year, but “coaching to win” for him clearly involves riding his top forwards any given night hard in a way we haven’t seen before.

Edited November 11, 2023 by dudacek

[French Collection]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This is a deliberate shift and the main reason why the PK is better. Last year, we’d chase and open a clear lane to the back door on a regular basis. Last night may have been the first back door PK goals we’ve allowed this year, and at least one of them was at least partly because of Okposo and Girgs pursuing hard up high.

These guys were the go-to PKers last year, probably reflective of last season’s lousy PK.

It would be great to see Krebs, Rousek or Jost be able to target PK skills as an avenue to ice time and trust.

It’s good to have 4th liners who are good at PK because I would rather have them block shots than TNT, Tuch and Dahlin.

Quinn’s return can help the PK, he has shown some ability in the past. He has the IQ to make good reads and the stick skills to kill the play.

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This is a deliberate shift and the main reason why the PK is better. Last year, we’d chase and open a clear lane to the back door on a regular basis. Last night may have been the first back door PK goals we’ve allowed this year, and at least one of them was at least partly because of Okposo and Girgs pursuing hard up high.

I think people notice the occasional botched breakouts and blueline keep-ins and take for granted the successful ones and don’t realize how often they happen. 

He does 10 good ones for every bad one. And he also 10 good ones for every good one a guy like EJ does.

Anyone paying attention knew from the day he was drafted he’d frustrate some for his lack of mean. They see the size and want Pronger, but his style is a lot more Lidstrom than Pronger.

He’s 20 and only played 100 NHL games. He’s got a lot to learn, but his competence at this level already is amazing.

He played in the 3rd while Savoie, Jost, Krebs and even Cozens didn’t, which is all you need to know about what Donnie thought.

First game I saw what I’d been hoping to see from Lukas. Think he’s earned another.

Related, there hasn’t been much chatter about how Donnie’s game day tactics have changed this year, but “coaching to win” for him clearly involves riding his top forwards hard any given night in a way we haven’t seen before.

Would have to go back and review it, but thought the Rags PP goal was a backdoor play as well.  But that was game 1, they've improved a lot since that game (which still only gave up 1 PP goal on 4 chances).

 

Agree on Power.  The funny thing is, he IS having a sophomore slump as he gets asked to do more than he was last year.  But he's still far and away their 2nd best D-man.  Not wishing any of this season away, but really looking forward to seeing what he'll end up doing next year when all this is starting to become old hat for him and also when he will likely FINALLY be nearly as strong as a person with a body that large should be.  He can very much be a Lidstrom-style player.

There also is a reasonable chance that R Johnson will be getting top 4 usage next year (at least at 5v5) which means Power can have either him or Samuelsson as his partner.  Don't underestimate how much having a guy that SHOULD be top 4 as a partner will make him better.  (Will also likely make the 3rd pairing better regardless of which 2 guys end up there.)

 

Granato has definitely changed his coaching style to a degree.   In tight games, the 3rd period is pretty much always 3 lines (and can drop to 2 at the very end).  He also mixes lines much earlier in games when things aren't working.  That used to always wait until the 3rd period (except when he wanted to get a guy some extra ice right before a TV timeout was due) but now that will happen earlier if things aren't working.

He does occassionally match lines (last night being an example, after having the Thompson line play against the Foligno line to start the game, the Okposo line got matched up against that really heavy line when he could).  He NEVER did that when development was the focus.

 

Can't wait for tonight's game and Tuesday's as well.  Expect they'll play a lot better tonight than they did last night.  Hopefully they do and the better team gets the W too.

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, French Collection said:

These guys were the go-to PKers last year, probably reflective of last season’s lousy PK.

It would be great to see Krebs, Rousek or Jost be able to target PK skills as an avenue to ice time and trust.

It’s good to have 4th liners who are good at PK because I would rather have them block shots than TNT, Tuch and Dahlin.

Quinn’s return can help the PK, he has shown some ability in the past. He has the IQ to make good reads and the stick skills to kill the play.

Cozens and particularly Krebs got a lot of time on the PK late last year, which was the main reason I was thinking Peyton was being groomed for a traditional 3C role.

Krebs was bad to start last year too, but I quite liked how he played down the stretch and Donnie agreed, feeding him a ton of ice.

Not sure if it’s chicken or egg but I think Peyton was kinda expected that to continue and it hasn’t really materialized. He’s kinda been a misfit toy in terms of lineup fit and I think it’s probably played a role in his poor start. Kid works his ass off, but he’s really in his own head.

Edited November 11, 2023 by dudacek