Matt Savoie recalled, Nov 6th, 2023

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I want them to “play the game” where they bring in players to help them make the playoffs. 😂

You didn't say what year. Benson and Savoie may just do that eventually.

[Doohicksie]

11 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Load management so that he is ready for the playoff run is how I would word it.

Have you considered a career in diplomacy?  Public relations?

[Doohicksie]

I know people are impatient to make the playoffs but one thing I noticed during the Texas Rangers run to the World Series:  During a season with a lot of games, you have to learn how to use them all (even the losses) to improve the team.  That may mean putting RyJo or Savoie out on the ice late in a one-goal game.  Maybe they will succeed and then it's something to build on.  Maybe they won't and it's something to learn from.  But especially with a team that doesn't have a recent history of winning, you have to work on getting the most out of the pieces you have, and getting the players to believe not only that they can win but that dammit, they deserve to win.

I think Donny is a good coach for everything except perhaps convincing these guys that they deserve to win and they need to put in the work it takes.  I like to think he can climb that hill with the team but so far we haven't seen that yet.

But as long as the Sabres are hanging around in playoff contention, they have a shot at literally running the table if they can just steadily improve (and I think they can).

[Big Guava]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

Just for discussion purposes.

Kulich seems to be most controversial in terms of if he’s the guy who’s going to give us the best chance to win, now

The 10 set spots dudacek just mentioned are still there: Skinner/Thompson/Tuch/Peterka/Cozens/Greenway/Mittelstadt/Girgensons/Krebs/Okposo : Okposo had basically just been replaced with Kulich in the tweet, instead. Benson/Savoie swapped. Utility guy Jost finding a regular shift because VO squandered.

Would it be better to have Kulich in for KO?

There’s basically 3 RW spots there I have no idea what to do with/how it will or should shake out, with: Jost, VO, KO, Savoie, and fan favourite Kulich in the mix in theory but maybe Kulich actually isn’t. 
 

It’ll probably be Jost, KO, Savoie in, but there’s a chance Jost of all people is the only true top 12 guy in the mix among that 5

 

 

More like they would beat Carolina because they are on the road and are an elite road team.

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Not at all. They are playing the game to keep Benson and Savoie out of Juniors.

That's part of what I mean though. They can't decide where those players should be. If they just wanted to keep them they could but I think maybe they feel they can only keep one and just aren't sure which at this point. 

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

I don’t see either of these things.

I think the Sabres came into the season with 11 of 13/14 forward spots set, including Jost as their utility guy.

Olofsson and Benson beat out Kulich, Rosen, Biro and Rousek for the final 2 spots. Savoie was in that mix but missed his chance due to injury.

Olofsson has squandered his chance, Benson got hurt. Savoie is the next guy they want to look at, but they snuck a peek at Rousek and Biro while he finished his conditioning stint.

How well Savoie runs with his opportunity will help decide what comes next.

tomato potato, you're still saying the same things as me, they haven't made up their mind as it's still "opportunities" and "looks" at this point in time. 

[PromoTheRobot]

19 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's part of what I mean though. They can't decide where those players should be. If they just wanted to keep them they could but I think maybe they feel they can only keep one and just aren't sure which at this point. 

 They know exactly what they are doing. They are getting both of those prospects extended pro playing time without burning a contract year. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 They know exactly what they are doing. They are getting both of those prospects extended pro playing time without burning a contract year. 

This is likely the main issue. Save money. Cap floor last year. Don't burn ELC years. There's a pattern. 

[Pimlach]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:18 PM, Doohickie said:

I know people are impatient to make the playoffs but one thing I noticed during the Texas Rangers run to the World Series:  During a season with a lot of games, you have to learn how to use them all (even the losses) to improve the team.  That may mean putting RyJo or Savoie out on the ice late in a one-goal game.  Maybe they will succeed and then it's something to build on.  Maybe they won't and it's something to learn from.  But especially with a team that doesn't have a recent history of winning, you have to work on getting the most out of the pieces you have, and getting the players to believe not only that they can win but that dammit, they deserve to win.

I think Donny is a good coach for everything except perhaps convincing these guys that they deserve to win and they need to put in the work it takes.  I like to think he can climb that hill with the team but so far we haven't seen that yet.

But as long as the Sabres are hanging around in playoff contention, they have a shot at literally running the table if they can just steadily improve (and I think they can).

The Texas Rangers were/are a talented team that actually hired one of the best, and most proven, managers in the game today.  He won it before in SF - he was a 3 times World Series winner. 

'Nuff said. 

The Sabres and the Rangers are not in the same boat.  

Edited November 8, 2023 by Pimlach

[PromoTheRobot]

16 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

This is likely the main issue. Save money. Cap floor last year. Don't burn ELC years. There's a pattern. 

Not even that. Why wouldn't you give players that gifted some time in the NHL? 

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

The Texas Rangers were/are a talented team that actually hired one of the best, and most proven, managers in the game today.  He won it before in SF - he was a 3 times World Series winner. 

'Nuff said. 

The Sabres and the Rangers are not in the same boat.  

But there was a point when Bochy was a 0 times WS winner.

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

But there was a point when Bochy was a 0 times WS winner.

Not with Texas 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Not even that. Why wouldn't you give players that gifted some time in the NHL? 

Well since I haven't seen him play a single minute of a game I have no idea how "gifted" Savoie even is. Time in the NHL: is fine and that's what the 10 game window is for. Then you decide if they stay or go and that's it. To me the Sabres are monkeying around too much and it can cost the team. 

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well since I haven't seen him play a single minute of a game I have no idea how "gifted" Savoie even is. Time in the NHL: is fine and that's what the 10 game window is for. Then you decide if they stay or go and that's it. To me the Sabres are monkeying around too much and it can cost the team. 

Well Savoie is playing quite well with the Amerks during his rehab stint. So there's that. People are calling for Kulich for the same reason.

[Quint]

8 hours ago, Doohickie said:

But there was a point when Bochy was a 0 times WS winner.

It would be an interesting study if someone was to track all the teams in different sports that have won a championship for the very first time after decades of losing or coming close. Then see who coached those teams. I would bet dollars to donuts that the coaches of the winning teams had previously won championships with other teams before that.

[Doohicksie]

1 minute ago, Quint said:

It would be an interesting study if someone was to track all the teams in different sports that have won a championship for the very first time after decades of losing or coming close. Then see who coached those teams. I would bet dollars to donuts that the coaches of the winning teams had previously won championships with other teams before that.

I wouldn't be so sure.  There are a few all-time greats that repeat with multiple teams but really they are quite rare. 

My point (which Punch swung on and missed) was that there is a process to getting to a championship with a rising team.  It's not always up-up-up, and for valid reasons like putting young players in a pressure situations when you could more likely win a game by putting the experienced player in.  You have to build the experience and skills of the younger players which sometimes means losing games you could have won.

[kas23]

2 hours ago, Quint said:

It would be an interesting study if someone was to track all the teams in different sports that have won a championship for the very first time after decades of losing or coming close. Then see who coached those teams. I would bet dollars to donuts that the coaches of the winning teams had previously won championships with other teams before that.

No NFL coach has ever won a Super Bowl for 2 different teams. 
 

It about 10 years old, but here’s a Tour de Force on repeated success of GMs in the NHL. Warning, it’s long, but the message is short: it’s rare to have repeated success and hiring a “proven winner” is very far from a guarantee of future success. 
 

https://iveybusinessjournal.com/publication/debunking-the-proven-winner-myth-in-the-national-hockey-league/

Edited November 8, 2023 by kas23

[French Collection]

1 minute ago, kas23 said:

No NFL coach has ever won a Super Bowl for 2 different teams. 

Interesting.

The last bunch of NHL Cup winners were first timers. Cassidy, Bednar, Cooper, Berube, Trotz, Sullivan, Quenneville, Sutter, Julien.

[kas23]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

Interesting.

The last bunch of NHL Cup winners were first timers. Cassidy, Bednar, Cooper, Berube, Trotz, Sullivan, Quenneville, Sutter, Julien.

I believe the list of multiple SC winners for different teams is very short. Scotty Bowman is the obvious one. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by kas23

[Doohicksie]

I didn't copy the link, but while checking around I found an article/blog post that looked since 2000 and the only Cup winning NHL HC that had won a Cup with another team was Scotty Bowman who took the Wings to the 2002 Cup.  All others who won multiple Cups in this century had their Cups with only one team.

1 minute ago, kas23 said:

I believe the list of multiple SC winners for different teams is very short. Stan Bowman is the obvious one. 

Scotty Bowman is who you're thinking of.

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Quint said:

It would be an interesting study if someone was to track all the teams in different sports that have won a championship for the very first time after decades of losing or coming close. Then see who coached those teams. I would bet dollars to donuts that the coaches of the winning teams had previously won championships with other teams before that.

You're probably on the right track with MLB champions.

But in the NHL, to actually WIN the SC with multiple teams is very rare.  Post expansion, only Bowman immediately springs to mind.

In the NFL, can't think of many either.  Reid never won a SB until he was in KC.  Bellicheat never connived his way to a SB victory as the HC prior to having the deflator pitching for him.  The Iggles SB winning also came w/ a 1st timer.  Can think of a few HCs that made it to a SB with different teams, but no winners w/ multiple teams immediately come to mind either.

Maybe in the NFL the coach you want is the guy that got to the SB before and lost.  Reid, Gruden, Shula, surely there's some others, right?  When they got there with a different team they got it done.

[kas23]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I didn't copy the link, but while checking around I found an article/blog post that looked since 2000 and the only Cup winning NHL HC that had won a Cup with another team was Scotty Bowman who took the Wings to the 2002 Cup.  All others who won multiple Cups in this century had their Cups with only one team.

Scotty Bowman is who you're thinking of.

Correct. I’m really trying to find a list of HCs with multiple SC wins and I just keep coming up with Bowman. But here is a list of coaches with SC appearances coaching different teams, so if other such coaches exist, they’ll be on this list:

 

 

[LTS]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well since I haven't seen him play a single minute of a game I have no idea how "gifted" Savoie even is. Time in the NHL: is fine and that's what the 10 game window is for. Then you decide if they stay or go and that's it. To me the Sabres are monkeying around too much and it can cost the team. 

It could, but it also allows them to get a sense of the player's ability to adapt in the NHL which could lead them to making decisions on trades that could help the team. I'm not sure how they are monkeying around at the moment. I think they are prepping to make a move and want a bit more data on what they have.

This is very typical of a team in this situation.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, kas23 said:

No NFL coach has ever won a Super Bowl for 2 different teams. 
 

It about 10 years old, but here’s a Tour de Force on repeated success of GMs in the NHL. Warning, it’s long, but the message is short: it’s rare to have repeated success and hiring a “proven winner” is very far from a guarantee of future success. 
 

https://iveybusinessjournal.com/publication/debunking-the-proven-winner-myth-in-the-national-hockey-league/

The nfl coach thing is kind of a wild stat 

[French Collection]

23 minutes ago, LTS said:

It could, but it also allows them to get a sense of the player's ability to adapt in the NHL which could lead them to making decisions on trades that could help the team. I'm not sure how they are monkeying around at the moment. I think they are prepping to make a move and want a bit more data on what they have.

This is very typical of a team in this situation.

I agree they are evaluating some of these guys.

I don’t see much of a return for VO but maybe San Jose or Chicago could use him to help with their scoring.
Same with Bryson, Johnson could stick around or go back for playing time when Mule returns. Stillman could come up and be 7D in that case.

Whatever can be had for VO/Bryson is OK with me.