The Sabres at 18 games.

[Hank]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@mjd1001

TOI is a huge reference point, but comparing them at even strength should be the reference as certain players don’t receive much time on  special teams. For example Mitts is our leading forward at EV at 14:38 with Skinner second at 14:05.  Tuch is 3rd and TNT 4th at 13:11.  It’s pretty clear that Mitts and his line has become our top line at EV.  TNT’s usage is fascinating.  DG loves him on both Special Teams, but not as much as EV.  His EV time is down nearly 1:30 from last year. I wonder if this is a reflection of his poor backchecking and DGs attempt at more balance.  

Cozens’ EV usage is the same as last year.

On Defense, DG has dropped the EV usage of the top 4.  Dahlin is down 30 seconds, Power is down nearly 2 minutes.  Mule is down nearly 30 seconds and Joki is down nearly 2 minutes. 

The 3rd pair is also skating less that last year’s 3rd pair.  I think this a reflection of limiting EJ TOI to keep him healthy and more Special teams time early in the year. 

 

All six defenders can't be skating less, the math don't work. 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

All six defenders can't be skating less, the math don't work. 

At 5v5, it can.  They're taking waaaaay more penalties than last year.  IIRC PP time is down slightly, but not as much as PK time is up.

Also, with the 8 game stretch early in the year, at one point they were down to 2 regulars in the lineup.  They both would've been getting more ice time, and as the other regulars came back into the lineup they'd be getting extra ice time too to keep the tweeners and AHLers ice time as limited as possible.

The D has been healthy this year so far (knock on wood).  That also effects deployment.

[PromoTheRobot]

Not too high, not too low to start. Stay in the mix for now. No extended droughts. Catch fire in March.

[msw2112]

19 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Last year I thought Krebs might have been the worst forward in the league for the first month of the season. As the year went on, he got better. By the end of the year, I was 'content' with is play.

What has happened this year? I know he is playing the 4th line roll, but he isn't doing that great, and he is bringing nothing.  He has to turn around his game right away somehow, but at this point I agree with many others, just replace him with Jost and this team is better.

Okposo looks shot.  Its not just the lack of production, but he looks one step slower than even last year, he isn't getting to guys on the forecheck like he was last year and he is a step slow to the boards in his own end.  Again, he has the "C", and I'm not sure who from Roch you could replace him with in a 4th line role..but when I watch him, its almost like he is even 'slowing down' Girgensonns.  I'd like to see Girgensons, Jost, and 'someone else' on that 4th line. Is Biro suited for a 4th line checking roll?  Girgs, Jost, and Biro might be better than what they are putting out there now.

I'm a big fan of Okposo and was in favor of re-signing him for his veteran leadership, but I have to agree.  Age appears to have caught up with him and he just can't do it anymore.  A couple of anecdotes come to mind:

I played a lot of youth hockey, but stopped playing in my teens, as I was playing too many other sports.  Around age 30, some friends got me into a rec league.  It was like riding a bike, I got right in there and was a really good player right off the bat.  I played all the time and loved it.  I scored a bunch of goals and was one of the best players in the league for several years.  Around age 35, I just lost it.  I tried changing sticks and a few other things and NOTHING would work.  I was in great physical shape (better at 35 than I was at 30), but my hands were just gone.  I couldn't maintain possession, I couldn't score, etc.  I was moving in quicksand....I just couldn't do what I used to do.  I was no longer fun.  So, I just stopped playing.  I took up other sports and physical activities to keep in shape (like running, yoga, and hiking), which I do to this day.  When I see Okposo this year, I think of my own experience.  I realize it's a bit of a stretch to compare a rec league weekend warrior to a professional athlete, but that's what I see.

A great example of a pro athlete is Lindy Ruff.  As a kid, he was my favorite Sabre.  He was tough and aggressive on the ice and not a guy to mess with.  He could also score a little bit, scoring around 20 goals at his peak.  I just loved the way he played and carried himself.  He was a great leader and became the team captain.  By the end of his career, however, before he was traded to the Rangers, it seemed like he could barely move.  I have memories of watching him falter all over the ice and being completely ineffective.  With him being my favorite player, it was hard to watch.  Fortunately for Lindy, he was able to retire and establish a great career as a coach.  He was arguably the best coach in Sabres franchise history and is now having great success with a young New Jersey team.

Another example is from football - Jim Kelly.  An all-time great Buffalo Bill and NFL Hall-of-Famer.  I recall his last game in the NFL, a playoff game against Jacksonville that the Bills lost.  Kelly was old and slow and beaten up badly by the Jags defense and the Bills lost the game.  It was pretty clear that Kelly was done.  Age had caught up to him.  Kelly retired shortly after that game.

So to sum up my long post, Okposo looks like he's done.  Great guy, great leader, great influence on the team, but he just can't keep up on the ice anymore.  I'd love to see him stay with the team in a coaching/advisory/mentoring role.

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, msw2112 said:

I'm a big fan of Okposo and was in favor of re-signing him for his veteran leadership, but I have to agree.  Age appears to have caught up with him and he just can't do it anymore. 

As per my original post, I mostly agree.

I said he is 'shot'. I'd like to see someone like Biro, or Rousek, take his role on the ice (whoever would be best on that 4th line.)

With that said I don't think he is totally sinking this team.  Look at what Toronto fans are talking about Ryan Reaves, now he appears to be "SHOT/Done"  He looks like a bad/slow college player trying to keep up in the NHL where it is obvious he can't really do anything other than harm his 4 teammates out there.  I don't think Okposo is at that level, I just think now a faster, hungry young guy might be a better option for the Sabres.

[msw2112]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

As per my original post, I mostly agree.

I said he is 'shot'. I'd like to see someone like Biro, or Rousek, take his role on the ice (whoever would be best on that 4th line.)

With that said I don't think he is totally sinking this team.  Look at what Toronto fans are talking about Ryan Reaves, now he appears to be "SHOT/Done"  He looks like a bad/slow college player trying to keep up in the NHL where it is obvious he can't really do anything other than harm his 4 teammates out there.  I don't think Okposo is at that level, I just think now a faster, hungry young guy might be a better option for the Sabres.

Before becoming a Sabre, Okposo was able to effectively keep up with a young John Tavares with the Islanders, and had the speed and hands to become a very effective scoring winger.  It landed him a big free agent contract (at the time) with the Sabres.  As he aged and played on some lesser Sabres teams, Okposo morphed into a great bottom-six forward, checking, cycling the puck, playing sound defensive hockey, etc. and he became a great glue guy and leader too.  Unfortunately, he has lost a step to the point where he can't even do the bottom-six stuff as effectively as he used to.  I agree that he's not a huge detriment to the team at this point, but he's also not much of a benefit on the ice.  A younger, hungry player might bring more.  So, in a long-winded fashion, I'm agreeing with what you are saying.

[French Collection]

7 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

As per my original post, I mostly agree.

I said he is 'shot'. I'd like to see someone like Biro, or Rousek, take his role on the ice (whoever would be best on that 4th line.)

With that said I don't think he is totally sinking this team.  Look at what Toronto fans are talking about Ryan Reaves, now he appears to be "SHOT/Done"  He looks like a bad/slow college player trying to keep up in the NHL where it is obvious he can't really do anything other than harm his 4 teammates out there.  I don't think Okposo is at that level, I just think now a faster, hungry young guy might be a better option for the Sabres.

I’m so happy the Leafs gave him a three year deal.

[msw2112]

No doubt that for players well into their 30's, one-year deals are the way to go.  Even guys you like and respect.  Fortunately for the Sabres, Okposo is on a 1-year deal right now.

[Pimlach]

On 11/3/2023 at 12:47 AM, PerreaultForever said:

I said at the time signing Okposo was a sentimental mistake. I got shot down for that idea to say the least but it's clear now, he should retire. Name Tuch captain please. 

Jost has been better than Krebs. Krebs learning curve definitely seems to have flattened or even hit a wall. I think we should go through a Rochester call up rotation until somebody sticks. Biro in the driver's seat at the moment. I would be happy if VO never wears a Sabres game jersey again. 

Sometimes you say the hard truths that many don't want to hear.  Okposo is so highly respected.  Girgensons is a sentimental favorite for being a good soldier on a dysfunctional team.  Krebs is a kid we have hopes for, especially being a piece from the Eichel trade. 

After 10 games one thing that is apparent is that our bottom 6 needs to be better, and harder to play against, and willing to the dirty stuff.  Our 4th line especially is not doing a lot - we have Kyle with 3 assists.  Girgs with 2 goals.  Krebs with 1 assist.  Probably not even all the points come from playing together.   Krebs has hit a wall and he needs to keep working.  

There is no coincidence that Biro and Rousek are being looked at before Kulich and Rosen.  They need more from the 4th line.  

 

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Pimlach

[Taro T]

29 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Sometimes you say the hard truths that many don't want to hear.  Okposo is so highly respected.  Girgensons is a sentimental favorite for being a good soldier on a dysfunctional team.  Krebs is a kids we have hopes for, especially being a piece from the Eichel trade. 

After 10 games one thing that is apparent is that our bottom 6 needs to be better, and harder to play against, and willing to the dirty stuff.  Our 4th line especially is not doing a lot - we have Kyle with 3 assists.  Girgs with 2 goals.  Krebs with 1 assist.  Probably not even all the points come from playing together.   Krebs has hit a wall and he needs to keep working.  

There is no coincidence that Biro and Rousek are being looked at before Kulich and Rosen.  They need more from the 4th line.  

 

 

Granted Krebs hasn't stood out on any line and he hasn't been exclusively Okposo's C; but can't overestimate how much one guy that is (or at minimum appears to be) in over his head can affect the rest of the line.  Should Okposo start to get maintenance days sometime after the B's game, will be very interested in seeing how much (if any) more effective Girgensons and Krebs seem to be.

Still say one of the biggest issues with them not having made the playoffs last year is Okposo decided to stick it out 1 year too many.  (Really hoping that take doesn't age well; but expect it does sadly.)

[Porous Five Hole]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@mjd1001TNT’s usage is fascinating.  DG loves him on both Special Teams, but not as much as EV.  His EV time is down nearly 1:30 from last year. I wonder if this is a reflection of his poor backchecking and DGs attempt at more balance.  

Adding Tage to PK1 would explain the reduction in 5 on 5 ice time.  I don’t recall him doing much of that last year. 

I have to imagine meatballs sat Tage down and said, “you’re getting paid 7M no matter what, so I don’t care about your goal total.” I’m glad Tage bought in to varying his usage.  

Edited November 3, 2023 by Porous Five Hole

[French Collection]

24 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Granted Krebs hasn't stood out on any line and he hasn't been exclusively Okposo's C; but can't overestimate how much one guy that is (or at minimum appears to be) in over his head can affect the rest of the line.  Should Okposo start to get maintenance days sometime after the B's game, will be very interested in seeing how much (if any) more effective Girgensons and Krebs seem to be.

Still say one of the biggest issues with them not having made the playoffs last year is Okposo decided to stick it out 1 year too many.  (Really hoping that take doesn't age well; but expect it does sadly.)

Girgs has the speed to be effective on the rush and gets in quickly for the forecheck too.

KO gets caught from behind and pinned in the neutral zone, he’s not even getting zone entries. He can play dump and chase but he struggles to pressure the D. If they gain the zone, he can still help the cycle game due to his strength and experience.

Everyone raves about the PK and it’s probably not a coincidence that KO and Girgs are no longer key components of that unit.

[Thorner]

On 11/2/2023 at 1:09 PM, Thorny said:

As arguably his biggest supporter I’d like to see a little bit more from Dahlin, even though he’s been good. T-7th in points for D is the minimum I’d expect, frankly, and I’d like to see that plus minus bump up too from -1, thought realistically that should come along with the team 

He leads the team in assists, but the bar is Norris nomination ie a top 3 league D. He’s that good. He’s pacing for 73 points just like last year, I think he has more in him for a ceiling.

This was luckily well-timed 

Dahlin was awful today 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Sometimes you say the hard truths that many don't want to hear.  Okposo is so highly respected.  Girgensons is a sentimental favorite for being a good soldier on a dysfunctional team.  Krebs is a kids we have hopes for, especially being a piece from the Eichel trade. 

After 10 games one thing that is apparent is that our bottom 6 needs to be better, and harder to play against, and willing to the dirty stuff.  Our 4th line especially is not doing a lot - we have Kyle with 3 assists.  Girgs with 2 goals.  Krebs with 1 assist.  Probably not even all the points come from playing together.   Krebs has hit a wall and he needs to keep working.  

There is no coincidence that Biro and Rousek are being looked at before Kulich and Rosen.  They need more from the 4th line.  

 

 

I would swap our 4th line for the Flyers in a heartbeat, and they aren't even the best 4th line in the league. Just an example of what a 4th line needs to be. 

[#freejame]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I would swap our 4th line for the Flyers in a heartbeat, and they aren't even the best 4th line in the league. Just an example of what a 4th line needs to be. 

I thought the fourth line was where you kept your sentimental players. The guys who really deserve to win because they’re losers. 

[Gatorman0519]

Seeing lots on anger on social media about that game last night. Especially those that were there. The Sabres urgently need to get going. 

[Stoner]

It seems like a tipping point. The heat is up on Terry, Don and the boys.

[Pimlach]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It seems like a tipping point. The heat is up on Terry, Don and the boys.

Kevyn, Don, and the boys.  No Terry at this time, we are 11 games in. 

[rickshaw]

I think the team needs a change. Need someone who can stand up for himself and still play. Someone like our old friend Foligno. 
Dylan and Alex can’t and Payton can’t be our fighters. 
We are too easy to play against and everyone knows it.

 

Also starting to see DG get out coached on a regular basis. Very concerning. 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, #freejame said:

I thought the fourth line was where you kept your sentimental players. The guys who really deserve to win because they’re losers. 

That was funny but it is kind of strange to me that the team has sentiment for anyone when they have set a record for most seasons with no playoffs. I always thought the first thing you do is say goodbye to EVERYONE from the past when you come in and clean house . But whatever, here they give them letters. 

[Quint]

From Larry Brooks of the NY Post:

Quote

 

Finally, bigger disappointment thus far, A) the Sabres who don’t seem to be prepared; or, B) the Flames, who don’t have Darryl Sutter to blame anymore? 

Perhaps you would prefer to cast your vote for, C) the Wild, still a season away from Mats Zuccarello’s two-year extension kicking in.

 

Don't seem to be prepared, eh?

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The OP asks why not Kulich?  The answer is simple, management wants to know about the veteran prospects like Biro & Rousek and is still juggling Benson and Savoie.  

There is still concern about Kulich’s and Rosen’s 200 foot games.

Getting a lot of playing time in the AHL as prominent players on their team is the right course of action for these players. The organization has built up its talent base in its system where not rushing players is the right course of action for the players and organization. I'm not precluding any player from moving up this year. But the general approach of allowing players to mature as players and physically is the right thing to do. The GM is doing the right thing in giving prospects time to develop. 

It should be noted that when you look at players like Biro, Rousek and even Ryan Johnson you have to consider that these players are older and more physically developed than younger prospects such as Kulich and Rosen. 

When taking an overview perspective, how can you not be excited about this franchise when you consider the bountiful number of young players in Benson, Savoie, Kulich, Rosen, Ryan Johnson etc. Then add those prospects to young players already on hand, such as JJ and Quinn.  KA has done a terrific job in rebuilding this franchise the right way. Stay the course!

[Doohicksie]

On 11/3/2023 at 1:16 PM, Porous Five Hole said:

I have to imagine meatballs sat Tage down and said, “you’re getting paid 7M no matter what, so just work on scoring shorthanded.” I’m glad Tage bought in to varying his usage.  

fify  (2 of his 6 goals so far have been shorties)

[Porous Five Hole]

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

fify  (2 of his 6 goals so far have been shorties)

Maybe so, but improving the PK was the primary objective. So far, so good. 

[Doohicksie]

Yes, and not to minimize that, but he's also been generating SH offense.  (Note that one of those was an EN goal.)