Zach Benson is week to week with a LBI

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

I'm starting to think he's not actually hurt ... 

Maybe buffalo is working the system finally

It does have the feel of possibly being a fake manipulation of the rules in order to defer final decisions and why not? Every team seems to work the system in some way so why not us. 

I personally don't think either should be here but if their junior situation isn't ideal and they are learning more here then go for it. 

OR, he's too small and young and thus fragile but who knows. KA I guess. 

[pi2000]

8 hours ago, K-9 said:

It’s not. As I’ve said previously and as Peterka attested to last week, the biggest adjustment for young players to make when first entering the league is to the sheer speed of the game compared to juniors. And the only thing to improve that is to play against it, both in practice and in games. 

It’s great that they can go back and dominate on a level they’ve already graduated from, but it won’t help them make the necessary adjustment to the much faster NHL game. Unfortunately the CHL rule governing their eligibility to remain with the Sabres as well as the numbers game we have at forward currently, will most likely dictate the return to juniors. 

But I’m glad KA and Co. seem to be scheming to maximize their time and exposure to NHL level competition in the meantime. 

Name one prospect, in the history of the game, who's development stalled out because he played an extra year in juniors.

There's none, but I can name a dozen off the top of my head who made the jump too early.

He's 18, he's still learning the game, his instincts and awareness are still developing... he needs to playing and playing a lot... not just 10-13min per game like he is now.

And all those rumors about Wenatchee being a toxic environment are completely false.   They have the winningest head coach in AHL history (808 wins) behind the bench and are 1st place in their division, 2nd in the Western Conference...  there's a lot he could still learn from Coach Sommer.

[HOUSE]

This is a massive bummer man

[mjd1001]

If the injury isn't something long-term....as some others have said it actually might be good for him.

Allows him to stay with the team, allows him to watch the Sabres play in person, get coaching from the Sabres coaches, while not necessarily being on the ice all the time.

Again, would it be better if he was eligible to go down to Rochester and not be injured? Sure. But without that being an option, him spending extra time with the big club and taking in the culture taking in the coaching, getting used to his potential future teammates may not be all that bad.

Edited November 1, 2023 by mjd1001

[K-9]

9 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Name one prospect, in the history of the game, who's development stalled out because he played an extra year in juniors.

There's none, but I can name a dozen off the top of my head who made the jump too early.

He's 18, he's still learning the game, his instincts and awareness are still developing... he needs to playing and playing a lot... not just 10-13min per game like he is now.

And all those rumors about Wenatchee being a toxic environment are completely false.   They have the winningest head coach in AHL history (808 wins) behind the bench and are 1st place in their division, 2nd in the Western Conference...  there's a lot he could still learn from Coach Sommer.

The history of prospects ruined or not ruined has ZERO bearing on the Benson situation. If the Sabres send him back, fine. He can play and dominate against lesser competition and have a blast doing it. But it won’t help him adjust to the NHL in the least. If he needs to be anywhere, it’s in the AHL but a stupid rule negates that possibility and what’s truly best for a young player’s development, which is all that should matter, can’t even be considered.

There is ZERO evidence that Benson is currently being “ruined.” None at all. 

The coaching situation in Wenatchee is of no concern to me and I’m sure Sommer is a great coach as you said. But please, tell me what he’s gonna teach Benson that Granato and Co. can’t? What razor is best for beginner shavers? What skin care product is best for acne?

I’ll tell you what he can’t teach and that is how to adjust to the speed of the pro game. Only one way to learn that.

 

[dudacek]

it stands to reason that the  best way to develop prospects is to challenge them.

I don't see WHL competition doing that for Benson (or Savoie), so the challenges there would have to come mostly outside of game situations: practice, off-ice habits, etcetera.

So it really comes down to coaching, and environment, doesn't it?

[Thorner]

21 hours ago, dudacek said:

Rosen and Kulich last year were not hurt in the slightest playing against men as scrawny underagers last year.

They sucked to start, got better and have emerged as 1st-liners so far this year at that level.

Another parallel might be Kisakov, who was really scrawny and overmatched as an underager in the AHL last year, produced little and sat a lot.

He's a point per game so far this year.

Benson is ahead of all these guys as a hockey player.

My point is there is no single right path or wrong path to develop, or ruin a prospect, no matter what hockey culture will tell you.

They're individuals. Do what's best for each one. This version of the Sabres seems to have a pretty good handle on it.

Do what’s best for each player under the context that it’s also best for the team

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

it stands to reason that the  best way to develop prospects is to challenge them.

I don't see WHL competition doing that for Benson (or Savoie), so the challenges there would have to come mostly outside of game situations: practice, off-ice habits, etcetera.

So it really comes down to coaching, and environment, doesn't it?

Why not? It helped Reinhart. I’m not saying CHL is best for them but there’s nothing to suggest they wouldn’t be able to learn a bunch and develop playing there either. He still honed his off ice work while there, on ice against the competition provided 

Edited November 1, 2023 by Thorny

[pi2000]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

The history of prospects ruined or not ruined has ZERO bearing on the Benson situation. If the Sabres send him back, fine. He can play and dominate against lesser competition and have a blast doing it. But it won’t help him adjust to the NHL in the least. If he needs to be anywhere, it’s in the AHL but a stupid rule negates that possibility and what’s truly best for a young player’s development, which is all that should matter, can’t even be considered.

There is ZERO evidence that Benson is currently being “ruined.” None at all. 

The coaching situation in Wenatchee is of no concern to me and I’m sure Sommer is a great coach as you said. But please, tell me what he’s gonna teach Benson that Granato and Co. can’t? What razor is best for beginner shavers? What skin care product is best for acne?

I’ll tell you what he can’t teach and that is how to adjust to the speed of the pro game. Only one way to learn that.

 

 

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

it stands to reason that the  best way to develop prospects is to challenge them.

I don't see WHL competition doing that for Benson (or Savoie), so the challenges there would have to come mostly outside of game situations: practice, off-ice habits, etcetera.

So it really comes down to coaching, and environment, doesn't it?

 

I agree, he plays a very mature game, however IMO he's not "too good" for juniors.

Again, for a prospect like him at 18 he needs to playing +20min a game in all situations to fully round out his game.   

Giving him 10-13min at night in the NHL will stunt his growth and most importantly his confidence as he'll need to adjust from being over a point per game player, to much much less than that.   

That's not ideal for a kid with his potential... dominating in juniors is much better for him long term vs being a role player at the NHL level. 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

 

 

I agree, he plays a very mature game, however IMO he's not "too good" for juniors.

Again, for a prospect like him at 18 he needs to playing +20min a game in all situations to fully round out his game.   

Giving him 10-13min at night in the NHL will stunt his growth and most importantly his confidence as he'll need to adjust from being over a point per game player, to much much less than that.   

That's not ideal for a kid with his potential... dominating in juniors is much better for him long term vs being a role player at the NHL level. 

It’s not a question of him being too good for juniors and I agree playing 20 minutes a night is a plus, regardless. The problem is that juniors isn’t good enough for him. 

[French Collection]

I’m happy to see KA willing to cook the books a little bit.

This isn’t Kucherov or Stone level cap circumvention but I like that he is willing to bend. He might have to do that cap juggling soon.

[dudacek]

45 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Why not? It helped Reinhart. I’m not saying CHL is best for them but there’s nothing to suggest they wouldn’t be able to learn a bunch and develop playing there either. He still honed his off ice work while there, on ice against the competition provided 

Yes. I would say being kept away from the mess that was the Sabres in 2014/15 was better for Reinhart. 
And I’d agree it it is the right thing for plenty of prospects and probably would be fine for Benson. I’m just disagreeing that it is always the best thing.

Honestly, I’m kinda with Webster in that I think most of the good ones make it regardless. It’s more about how far they get and how fast that development affects.

39 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

 

 

I agree, he plays a very mature game, however IMO he's not "too good" for juniors.

Again, for a prospect like him at 18 he needs to playing +20min a game in all situations to fully round out his game.   

Giving him 10-13min at night in the NHL will stunt his growth and most importantly his confidence as he'll need to adjust from being over a point per game player, to much much less than that.   

That's not ideal for a kid with his potential... dominating in juniors is much better for him long term vs being a role player at the NHL level. 

You say this like he hasn’t played 20-minutes a night in all situations already. He’s played in the WHL for 3 years. He was probably the league’s 2nd-best player. At the WHL level, his game doesn’t really have holes.

He needs to get stronger and he needs to adjust to playing at a faster pace. 

The bold is true for some players. It’s not for all. 

I’m not sure if it’s best for Benson, but I tend to trust Adams and Granato when it comes to making that decision.

 

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yes. I would say being kept away from the mess that was the Sabres in 2014/15 was better for Reinhart. 
And I’d agree it it is the right thing for plenty of prospects and probably would be fine for Benson. I’m just disagreeing that it is always the best thing.

Honestly, I’m kinda with Webster in that I think most of the good ones make it regardless. It’s more about how far they get and how fast that development affects.

You say this like he hasn’t played 20-minutes a night in all situations already. He’s played in the WHL for 3 years. He was probably the league’s 2nd-best player. At the WHL level, his game doesn’t really have holes.

He needs to get stronger and he needs to adjust to playing at a faster pace. 

The bold is true for some players. It’s not for all. 

I’m not sure if it’s best for Benson, but I tend to trust Adams and Granato when it comes to making that decision.

 

Ya ur probably right 

[Taro T]

58 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yes. I would say being kept away from the mess that was the Sabres in 2014/15 was better for Reinhart. 
And I’d agree it it is the right thing for plenty of prospects and probably would be fine for Benson. I’m just disagreeing that it is always the best thing.

Honestly, I’m kinda with Webster in that I think most of the good ones make it regardless. It’s more about how far they get and how fast that development affects.

You say this like he hasn’t played 20-minutes a night in all situations already. He’s played in the WHL for 3 years. He was probably the league’s 2nd-best player. At the WHL level, his game doesn’t really have holes.

He needs to get stronger and he needs to adjust to playing at a faster pace. 

The bold is true for some players. It’s not for all. 

I’m not sure if it’s best for Benson, but I tend to trust Adams and Granato when it comes to making that decision.

 

Had he been a top 3 pick, people would barely bat an eye at his still being in Buffalo.  But, he fell to 13 and everybody "knows" that 13th overall picks pretty much never play in the NHL in their D+1 season and also that 18 yo's nearly as often don't play in the NHL in their D+1 season.

Yes, he's small (for an NHLer) but he isn't tiny.  He's listed at 5'9" 163# on the Sabres website, but seeing him in person really expect he's actually 5'10" and close to 170#, probably ~168.  He's been on the small side his entire life and has gotten used to keeping himself in the mix of the play but not in a spot to get lined up for the monster hit.  He's had a tendency to roll off the hits and not take the full brunt of shots since he's been in Buffalo.  No idea what the injury is, but as Lysowski has said it's been bothering him for weeks would expect it's a groin.  That might or might not be from a hit.  But the team hasn't seemed overly concerned about it as he was playing through the injury for the most part.

Really good Q as to whether he stays up or not after his 9th game has been played.  Especially if Biro looks good, could see them leaving Benson on IR for 3-4 more weeks to let the injury get fully healed.  And then see if he looks like he did the 1st 3 games he played for the Sabres and how he looked in the preseason.  He was very good in those games.  If he can get back to that form, would expect he stays beyond his 9th game.  If he can't, he won't.  Wouldn't bet against him if he gets back to fully healthy (or as fully healthy as he was when the season started).

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Had he been a top 3 pick, people would barely bat an eye at his still being in Buffalo.  But, he fell to 13 and everybody "knows" that 13th overall picks pretty much never play in the NHL in their D+1 season and also that 18 yo's nearly as often don't play in the NHL in their D+1 season.

Yes, he's small (for an NHLer) but he isn't tiny.  He's listed at 5'9" 163# on the Sabres website, but seeing him in person really expect he's actually 5'10" and close to 170#, probably ~168.  He's been on the small side his entire life and has gotten used to keeping himself in the mix of the play but not in a spot to get lined up for the monster hit.  He's had a tendency to roll off the hits and not take the full brunt of shots since he's been in Buffalo.  No idea what the injury is, but as Lysowski has said it's been bothering him for weeks would expect it's a groin.  That might or might not be from a hit.  But the team hasn't seemed overly concerned about it as he was playing through the injury for the most part.

Really good Q as to whether he stays up or not after his 9th game has been played.  Especially if Biro looks good, could see them leaving Benson on IR for 3-4 more weeks to let the injury get fully healed.  And then see if he looks like he did the 1st 3 games he played for the Sabres and how he looked in the preseason.  He was very good in those games.  If he can get back to that form, would expect he stays beyond his 9th game.  If he can't, he won't.  Wouldn't bet against him if he gets back to fully healthy (or as fully healthy as he was when the season started).

5’10” (actually 5’9.75”) and 170lbs. is his official weight from the combine, which is his official weight. The Sabres website management is remiss in not updating the numbers. 

[dudacek]

Per Granato's presser today post-practice; Benson skated on his own with Comrie and Samuelsson today.

[pi2000]

11 hours ago, dudacek said:

Per Granato's presser today post-practice; Benson skated on his own with Comrie and Samuelsson today.

They need to play him at least 15min/g or send him to Wenatchee.