GDT: 🏒 Buffalo Sabres @ New Jersey Devils 27 October 2023 7:00 PM MSG

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, Norcal said:

Patience for the start is all I'm saying. 

Obviously we want results now, as in this season.

The season just started, no need to panic yet lol

 

 

Agreed. I’m surprised this team is starting the way they are. Color me concerned. But we’ve also barely started a 6 month season.

Happy to talk about what’s going on, but way too early to start talking about selling of Granato or Adams. 

[Pimlach]

Just now, Carmel Corn said:

Agree.  I look at the NY Rangers.....entirely new coaching staff and players had to adjust.  So far they're 5-2, so I would say the early results is that the players and coaches were able to get in sync.  We have the same staff and little change in the player base, so why is it so hard for our team to implement whatever changes are being asked?

It’s not.  The idea of teaching offense for two years and then teaching defense the third is unusual.  Most coaches teach a system, it contains everything in it, players learn it as they go and it becomes second nature. 

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

It's amazing how blinded large portions of this board are to the Sabres on ice improvement from last season. 

Does it bother you that the Sabres are 29th in all-strength xGF%, and 31st in all-strength high danger CF%? They were better at these things last year by a fair amount. They are not a good hockey team right now. They are already falling behind and nothing about their play suggests it's about to get better. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I think Pegula has scared the hockey fan base pretty deep. I think if the Sabres found themselves  in the conference finals this year we’d be surprised at how sterile and how many visiting fans filled the stands. 
 

I think it will take a couple years of real sustained success to get the cit fully on board. 

It’s a bit heart breaking when I think about it. 

It is heartbreaking.  

We disagree here.  If they survive a playoff run and make the playoffs the place will be packed, including opposing fans, but Sabres fan interest will be rekindled.  

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

It's amazing how blinded large portions of this board are to the Sabres on ice improvement from last season. 

It’s still early and they are starting slow.   I am not throwing in the towel.  I said it before, we need to see what we have have by about Christmas time.  I do feel KA took a huge risk going with Levi/Comrie/UPL.  I also do not give him points for trying.  He gets graded on results.  
 

I see some on ice improvement in team defense, especially the PK, and also from certain players such as JJP, Greenway, the addition of E Johnson, even Clifton has brought some good attributes (ducks while saying Clifton). 

I read the fancy stats and they are all down from last year.  Looking only at the W/L it looks like they are not improved.  Look at the home game performances, nothing improved there either. So yes, it’s hard to see much improvement.  

The current angst comes from Levi hurt, Comrie hurt, and UPL left standing.  Maybe Levi is ready to get back?  

Last night was a game that an improved Sabres team would have taken to OT once Cozens tied it up, they would have got at least 1 point on the road. 

Look at the Huala GWG and how long he stood on the crease line in front of UPL.  Maybe Clifton clears him out, it’s one attribute he does bring that we need, and we needed at that specific moment.  Instead he camps out there and gets a flukey redirect and UPL is the bad guy.  
 

[sabremike]

Wonder how many people are beginning to realize that this team is going to continue to fail as long as Don and his incompetent assistants are still around? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The Sabres have scored 23g and allowed 27. Apparently we have scored 5g but allowed 14 in the 3rd period.  
 

Are the Sabres not in good enough shape?

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, sabremike said:

Wonder how many people are beginning to realize that this team is going to continue to fail as long as Don and his incompetent assistants are still around? 

I don't know? 10? 50? 12,000?

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Does it bother you that the Sabres are 29th in all-strength xGF%, and 31st in all-strength high danger CF%? They were better at these things last year by a fair amount. They are not a good hockey team right now. They are already falling behind and nothing about their play suggests it's about to get better. 

STATS!!!!

[Thorner]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

It's amazing how blinded large portions of this board are to the Sabres on ice improvement from last season. 

In certain facets. It’s been, as mentioned a lot during the offseason as something that might happen with a renewed commitment to defence, a give and take between the O and the D so far 

5 hours ago, KC Scouts said:

I think we are putting it together SLOWLY, so far this season. The general trend is up since that abysmal opener against the NYR.

That being said, I don’t see how anyone ( including coaches and mangement) can be happy with their results at this point. I think we’ve graduated from “ we have potential and we are developing” to where we really need to see tangible results in the standings

Well said. 

9 hours ago, #freejame said:

It’s a 61 point pace. 

Have to be careful with playing the “pace game” this early, as i always say. A mere two wins and we are pacing for 33% more 

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, Norcal said:

@#freejame you do realize this plan was laid out by the head coach right? 

The plan this season was always to work on the defensive side which they sacrificed while a young team learned to score. 

Growing pains can be expected.

Lol we have suffered and sacrificed enough since Darcy proclaimed it come on now 

devoting an entire professional season to “learning to play D” is something literally only the Sabres would do, never mind committing THAT product to the consumers in a GM’s *4th* season. It’s frankly absurd  

how can one possibly buy that? It’s an insult to the paying customer 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Thorny

[sabremike]

37 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't know? 10? 50? 12,000?

STATS!!!!

Stats say: Sabres are one of the worst teams in the league.

Standings say: Sabres are one of the worst teams in the league.

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I thought the plan was to start winning and make the playoffs?  
 

I never heard of teaching hockey systems in separate segments over 3 or 4 years. A system is a closed loop with defense, breakouts, transition, and offense all working and learned together.  

I don’t even need to post, do I? Particularly late. 
 

you’ve got it all covered, saliently 

3 hours ago, Norcal said:

Patience for the start is all I'm saying. 

Obviously we want results now, as in this season.

The season just started, no need to panic yet lol

 

 

Definitely agree here 

[PromoTheRobot]

34 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Stats say: Sabres are one of the worst teams in the league.

Standings say: Sabres are one of the worst teams in the league.

So why watch games when all you need to know is on a stat sheet?

[Scottysabres]

55 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Lol we have suffered and sacrificed enough since Darcy proclaimed it come on now 

devoting an entire professional season to “learning to play D” is something literally only the Sabres would do, never mind committing THAT product to the consumers in a GM’s *4th* season. It’s frankly absurd  

how can one possibly buy that? It’s an insult to the paying customer 

There is a great deal of truth in this post.

The way some are defending this "seadon to learn defense", you would think the Sabres entire roster were randomly pulled off the street August 1st, told to lace up skates and have never played structured organizational hockey with coaches, training facilities and an actual schedule. I.E. pond hockey crew.

The fact is, this seasons start to date is a catastrophe. And there is plenty within the organization to point the finger at. From the owner. GM, coaching staff down to the players themselves, the Sabres were not prepared for this season. And the really concerning fact is this roster is near identical to late last seasons, meaning not only have they not progressed, but they've actually not bought in to what the coach is selling, imho.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

There is a great deal of truth in this post.

The way some are defending this "seadon to learn defense", you would think the Sabres entire roster were randomly pulled off the street August 1st, told to lace up skates and have never played structured organizational hockey with coaches, training facilities and an actual schedule. I.E. pond hockey crew.

The fact is, this seasons start to date is a catastrophe. And there is plenty within the organization to point the finger at. From the owner. GM, coaching staff down to the players themselves, the Sabres were not prepared for this season. And the really concerning fact is this roster is near identical to late last seasons, meaning not only have they not progressed, but they've actually not bought in to what the coach is selling, imho.

Almost everyone to a man said the playoffs were the line this season.

I’m merely attempting to make sure that’s not forgotten 

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Almost everyone to a man said the playoffs were the line this season.

I’m merely attempting to make sure that’s not forgotten 

I know Thorny. And ya, I get it, we're less than 10 games in, but even I have come to recognize these early seadon points play a huge role in a playoff birth. Outside of the Blues emaculate 2nd half of season run, most teams keep accumulating a portion of the points, it's not happening here and it's very concerning is all I'm pointing out.

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

I know Thorny. And ya, I get it, we're less than 10 games in, but even I have come to recognize these early seadon points play a huge role in a playoff birth. Outside of the Blues emaculate 2nd half of season run, most teams keep accumulating a portion of the points, it's not happening here and it's very concerning is all I'm pointing out.

I agree with your concern (and your “pulled off the street August 1” point, too). I admittedly don’t understand the position that doesn’t - how couldn’t there be concern, given the going-on-13-years-missed tide we’ve come riding in on? Would be odd to not be worried about the fact it might still be gaining steam.

Mathematically, it’s just early still, this season. The math at least can be separated from the dread: there’s plenty of time for this to shift, this season. I’m worried it won’t, of course, but it still very well could and not only due to a huge mathematical unlikelihood.

With this much ground still to go, it’s a much better likelihood than, say, the chances of 3 unprovens locking down a crea…

wait what 

 

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Almost everyone to a man said the playoffs were the line this season.

I’m merely attempting to make sure that’s not forgotten 

It’s 8 freaking games !!!! Holy $hit people 

let’s see where they are after 20 or so games and go from there.  
 

that being said, I don’t need to wait 20 games to conclude that Olofsson brings absolutely nothing to the team.   I don’t care who takes his spot but that’s the move that needs to be made 
 

 

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

It’s 8 freaking games !!!! Holy $hit people 

let’s see where they are after 20 or so games and go from there.  
 

that being said, I don’t need to wait 20 games to conclude that Olofsson brings absolutely nothing to the team.   I don’t care who takes his spot but that’s the move that needs to be made 
 

 

Why don’t you try reading my posts rather than launching a pointless Zamboni like crusade. You are too good of a poster to fall into that trap of being endlessly one-note

I’ve said countless times during this very discussion it’s too early to judge the results of this season 

I did not say they won’t make it. Please quote it if that’s what you think. I’m merely expressing the idea that whether we make it, or not, it’s still the line 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Mathematically, it’s just early still, this season. The math at least can be separated from the dread: there’s plenty of time for this to shift, this season. I’m worried it won’t, of course, but it still very well could and not only due to a huge mathematical unlikelihood.

My post immediately preceding. I understand any sort of nuance on this site is unfathomable for a certain (very few) posters who prefer to simply sit on a singular opinion and never shift, but it’s always shades of grey 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I did not say they won’t make it.

I will. This team isn't good and isn't going to make it 

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I will. This team isn't good and isn't going to make it 

That’s fine. And that’s certainly a reasonably strong possibility. But do you ever get tired of being pigeonholed onto one side or another because the person claiming it themselves can only see 2 dimensions and thus can only project the idea of opposing extremes? It’s maddening 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Thorny

[Crusader1969]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Why don’t you try reading my posts rather than launching a pointless Zamboni like crusade. You are too good of a poster to fall into that trap of being endlessly one-note

I’ve said countless times during this very discussion it’s too early to judge the results of this season 

I did not say they won’t make it. Please quote it if that’s what you think. I’m merely expressing the idea that whether we make it, or not, it’s still the line 

I was actually trying to back up what you were saying but reading it again, I wrote it poorly.  
 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

I was actually trying to back up what you were saying but reading it again, I wrote it poorly.  
 

Ya I mean I’m obviously an idiot in general, but this particular case I would hazard to say no one wouldn’t have taken the inference I did, based on what you said and how you quoted me loll

regardless, I withdrew my X in good faith. My mistake.

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Because the people running this thing when Miller was traded were incompetent. They were followed by more incompetence. 

I do not put Adams in that class, but I think he botched Ulmark and I think he was told to stay under the cap until they are “good”.  
 

 

Oh definitely, no argument on the incompetence, but when you turn things over and try to reboot usually teams look to their past and try to build a newer version of what made them good before. Sabres seem to have thrown all their history away and don't care. They have a future plan and they know better, that is the attitude, and they just don't. 

Is Adams incompetent? idk, but he hasn't made them into a winner yet and he had a pretty good head start. The goalie situation can't just be brushed aside as one small mistake, he's totally botched it and hasn't fixed it after. For a lot of teams that would be considered definite incompetence.