GDT: 10/24/23 Buffalo Sabres @ Ottawa Senators -- MSG and Radio 6:45? PM

[WhenWillItEnd66]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

UPL turned into UPL with 10 minutes left in the 3rd...luckily Tage got the ENG

I think that is not a fair observation. 2 of those goals towards the end he really had little chance on. The Sabres were not covering in front of their own net and got seriously defensively sloppy in the last 4. I think UPL did good and was pretty solid. 

[LabattBlue]

Good win. Haven’t seen any games in the last week, as we have been on vacation.  Hopefully something to build on. 🤞🏻

[rickshaw]

And the league has rescinded the one game suspension for tkachuk. What a joke league. And nothing for the two cheap shots.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

The way hockey used to be back when there were never any cheap shots? 
 

In all my years watching hockey, there has never been a time where being physical with a player like Tkachuk, stopped said player from being a cheap shot artist. Now, if your argument is that at some point a good team needs to be able to “fight fire with fire”, I can accept that.  But players like Brady Tkachuk won’t stop being who they are because they took a few heavy body checks. Indeed, that’s the sort of thing that encourages them. 

Not saying you stop him, but if you have a team that can and will dish it out you gain respect (and maybe a little fear from some) and thus you have less liberties taken against you. It won't stop him but it can hobble him and take him out of being an issue. 

5 hours ago, Curt said:

In fact I’d argue that is exactly what they want.  A player like that wants you to jump over to boards thinking “I’m gonna get that guy” instead of focusing playing good hockey.

@PerreaultForever

Not what I'm suggesting at all, but you keep turning the other cheek and see how that goes. 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Did you see the play by Dahlin last night leveling a Senator with about 10 minutes left.   I thought that hit was clean and had great timing.  He is starting to hit his stride.  

Yes but quite a list of ppl here spent the Krueger years saying Dahlin was not elite so it will take awhile for that tune to change regardless of his elite play. 

[Stoner]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes but quite a list of ppl here spent the Krueger years saying Dahlin was not elite so it will take awhile for that tune to change regardless of his elite play. 

You can't have it both ways. You can't say Krueger ruined him then argue he was elite at the time.

Elite is subjective. I think for a lot of fans it has to be in the context of winning something. Otherwise he's Barry Sanders.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Yes but quite a list of ppl here spent the Krueger years saying Dahlin was not elite so it will take awhile for that tune to change regardless of his elite play. 

I was just pointing it out to @PASabreFanbecause he mentioned Dahlin's big hit in the Montreal game as too little to late.  

Wanted to know if he saw this game where Dahlin had a both a physical and a  high-skill presence, and was a difference maker IMO.  

 

[Stoner]

Just now, Pimlach said:

I was just pointing it out to @PASabreFanbecause he mentioned Dahlin's big hit in the Montreal game as too little to late.  

Wanted to know if he saw this game where Dahlin had a both a physical and a  high-skill presence, and was a difference maker IMO.  

 

I saw only the highlights because although MSG Plus allowed me to see the Habs game, it wouldn't let me replay the game after I got home last night. It does let me replay the game today. I plan on watching it tonight.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not saying you stop him, but if you have a team that can and will dish it out you gain respect (and maybe a little fear from some) and thus you have less liberties taken against you. It won't stop him but it can hobble him and take him out of being an issue. 

Not what I'm suggesting at all, but you keep turning the other cheek and see how that goes. 

I say if a player does some BS, the guys on the ice handle it immediately.

I don’t really want guys to spend half a game going out of their way to deliver extra hits.  That’s playing right into his hands.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

You can't have it both ways. You can't say Krueger ruined him then argue he was elite at the time.

Elite is subjective. I think for a lot of fans it has to be in the context of winning something. Otherwise he's Barry Sanders.

So you think Dahlin is elite then?

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I was just pointing it out to @PASabreFanbecause he mentioned Dahlin's big hit in the Montreal game as too little to late.  

Wanted to know if he saw this game where Dahlin had a both a physical and a  high-skill presence, and was a difference maker IMO.  

 

Dahlin has been a difference maker in every game he's played this year. 

[Stoner]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

So you think Dahlin is elite then?

Fun with words. Are all NHL players elite? Of course. They're the best of the best of the best players in the world. How good is the worst player on the PGA Tour? Is Dahlin elite among all NHL players? I might not go that far. Is he elite among all NHL defensemen? I can buy that. 180ish top six D in the league. Is Dahlin in the top 5 or 10 percent? Sure. But that put him out of the Norris running. Others did not judge him elite of the elite. Look... He's really good. If I'm lukewarm about him or any other really good Sabre, it has everything to do with continuing drought, which looks on early returns to still be a thing. I need to see elite players drag a team into the top half of the league, then perform in the playoffs. Was he elite two or three years ago? Obv. not given how Krueger was roundly criticized for "ruining" him.

[Sidc3000]

I just watched the game since I was working last night. No doubt it was their best effort so far with the top line finally showing up. They got so damn lucky to come out with a win after completing collapsing in the last five minutes of the game. I don’t care how great they played in the previous 55 minutes, they didn’t deserve to win that game. 
 

Oh and Brady Tkachuck is a dirty POS. I hope the Sabres run him into the boards at the next game. 

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Good win. Haven’t seen any games in the last week, as we have been on vacation.  Hopefully something to build on. 🤞🏻

You call completely collapsing in the last 5 minutes and blowing 4 goal lead is good?

[Pimlach]

20 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

 

You call completely collapsing in the last 5 minutes and blowing 4 goal lead is good?

Well, they didn't blow the lead and they did win by 2.

You can look at it as a win on the road, when on the 2nd night of a back to back, against a pretty strong team and division rival.  

[Drag0nDan]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

The Sabres got tired about halfway through the 2nd period, just like the Islanders did when we played them on a back to back.   We had a 3-0 lead but the momentum swing was all Sens.  

The Sens scored at the 13:14 mark of the second and they had huge pressure on us, dominating several long shifts in our zone.  UPL made a few big stops in this flurry, right when we really needed it.  Then the Sabres (Tuch) finally got one on the PP, then Tage got the late tip in, 5-1 game over.  

About halfway through the third things got ugly with Tuch and Tkachuck.  The refs missed (more like let go) a blatant charging/roughing by Tkachuk on Tuch, leading to a retaliation by Tuch - which they called and they got them both for fighting.  The officials were the reason the game got stupid. 

The next group of penalties was very troubling.  Tarasenko roughed KO after the whistle leading to a response by Cozens.  Cozens ended up with 4 mins of roughing and 10 mins for misconduct and they even got Benson for 2 minutes.  We never got the straight penalty story from blabbering Ray and Dan - they were terrible once again, but we ended up on the PK which seemed to defy logic from what actually happened.  

It seemed like the Sens had the PP for most of the last 3 or 4 minutes of the game and they got a few cheap goals on scrambles in front of the net.  We have to keep our composure.   With Tuch and Cozens out for the game we just need to protect the 5-2 lead.   

Fatigue, the crowd, the fights, whatever - we have to do better in these times - that was playoff intensity in the last half of the 3rd. 

Thankfully Tage made a few nice moves to get control of the puck on the PK and he flipped the clincher in.  That was a very big EN goal and I am glad Tage got it because he has been working hard to get his game going.  

Overall an excellent road win on a B2B for us.   We corrected some things from the Montreal game.  We gave UPL a lot of support, we are playing like a team again, team defense is getting better the last few games, and a few more guns are starting to fire. 

The addition of Johnson and Clifton, plus the reclamation of Greenway and all of a sudden we have some physical presence to go with Cozens and Tuch.  

Bring on the Lindy and the Devils.  

Absolutely terrible officiating at the end of the game.  You rewarded a team for cheap shots... to me I just give out equal roughing penalties.  

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, Drag0nDan said:

Absolutely terrible officiating at the end of the game.  You rewarded a team for cheap shots... to me I just give out equal roughing penalties.  

Exactly, give Cozens and Tarasenko 2 each for roughing and call it a day. 

Minimum is to give Tarasenko 2 for the shot at Okposo and let the rest go.  

My view is you give Tarasenko 4 and Cozens 2. 

[Drag0nDan]

3 hours ago, rickshaw said:

And the league has rescinded the one game suspension for tkachuk. What a joke league. And nothing for the two cheap shots.

It's alright - that reckless style is fun to watch.  Gets under teams skin.  Great for playoffs.

But Brady and Matt for that matter, will both eventually break down faster than the average skill player.  

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Exactly, give Cozens and Tarasenko 2 each for roughing and call it a day. 

Minimum is to give Tarasenko 2 for the shot at Okposo and let the rest go.  

My view is you give Tarasenko 4 and Cozens 2. 

Just send them both for 2 and a misconduct or something.  Basically saying "cut it out"

[LGR4GM]

49 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Fun with words. Are all NHL players elite? Of course. They're the best of the best of the best players in the world. How good is the worst player on the PGA Tour? Is Dahlin elite among all NHL players? I might not go that far. Is he elite among all NHL defensemen? I can buy that. 180ish top six D in the league. Is Dahlin in the top 5 or 10 percent? Sure. But that put him out of the Norris running. Others did not judge him elite of the elite. Look... He's really good. If I'm lukewarm about him or any other really good Sabre, it has everything to do with continuing drought, which looks on early returns to still be a thing. I need to see elite players drag a team into the top half of the league, then perform in the playoffs. Was he elite two or three years ago? Obv. not given how Krueger was roundly criticized for "ruining" him.

Fun with numbers. 

So you're saying he's top 9 or 18 for all defense but that's not "elite".

[Stoner]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Fun with numbers. 

So you're saying he's top 9 or 18 for all defense but that's not "elite".

I said I could buy it. How to label him isn't that important to me.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

I said I could buy it. How to label him isn't that important to me.

And yet it was important enough for you to make fun of ppl for saying Dahlin was elite when drafted. 

[LTS]

1 hour ago, Sidc3000 said:

I just watched the game since I was working last night. No doubt it was their best effort so far with the top line finally showing up. They got so damn lucky to come out with a win after completing collapsing in the last five minutes of the game. I don’t care how great they played in the previous 55 minutes, they didn’t deserve to win that game. 
 

Oh and Brady Tkachuck is a dirty POS. I hope the Sabres run him into the boards at the next game. 

You call completely collapsing in the last 5 minutes and blowing 4 goal lead is good?

First bolded: Why not? They won. They didn't get hosed by the officials or anyone. They beat Ottawa. They may have bent, but they did not break and they won. What else is the definition of deserving to win than winning?

Second bolded: When did the Senators tie the game? I must have missed it.  They only blew 3 of the 4 goals they were leading by.

Now, can we talk about Stutzle? He'll be a solid representative for Germany on the 10m platform event in Paris this summer.

[PickaPecaPickles]

4 hours ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

I think that is not a fair observation. 2 of those goals towards the end he really had little chance on. The Sabres were not covering in front of their own net and got seriously defensively sloppy in the last 4. I think UPL did good and was pretty solid. 

They also spent a good part of the period forcing passes to Skinner (whenever he was on the ice) trying to get him a hattie.

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

You can't have it both ways. You can't say Krueger ruined him then argue he was elite at the time.

Elite is subjective. I think for a lot of fans it has to be in the context of winning something. Otherwise he's Barry Sanders.

He’s wasn’t elite at the time, but a shocking amount of people (not here, I love you guys) online were inexplicably forgetting he was squarely in the time period where these players are developing, and were openly doubting whether he had any more give. I more so see it as these people who were having it both ways: if Krueger was such a clear negative impact, as they were saying, why were they keying on negative projections for Dahlin?

The numbers guys chose the wrong numbers. That’s why it was funny - they couldn’t interpret their own data. Their arguments didn’t have an internal logical consistency

in my perception, smart! Sabres twitter still hasn’t recovered. Maybe I’m cherry picking a bit, but as one who remained ardently a defender of Dahlin, I’m willing to be petty 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I saw only the highlights because although MSG Plus allowed me to see the Habs game, it wouldn't let me replay the game after I got home last night. It does let me replay the game today. I plan on watching it tonight.

What’s your current analysis of Dahlin and what he brings? Honestly just interested in your take, haven’t heard you elaborate on him in a bit 

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Fun with words. Are all NHL players elite? Of course. They're the best of the best of the best players in the world. How good is the worst player on the PGA Tour? Is Dahlin elite among all NHL players? I might not go that far. Is he elite among all NHL defensemen? I can buy that. 180ish top six D in the league. Is Dahlin in the top 5 or 10 percent? Sure. But that put him out of the Norris running. Others did not judge him elite of the elite. Look... He's really good. If I'm lukewarm about him or any other really good Sabre, it has everything to do with continuing drought, which looks on early returns to still be a thing. I need to see elite players drag a team into the top half of the league, then perform in the playoffs. Was he elite two or three years ago? Obv. not given how Krueger was roundly criticized for "ruining" him.

I need to finish reading threads before chiming in.

Good stuff.

Jack’s playoffs must have carried a lot of water for you where that analysis is concerned for that particular player 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Thorny

[K-9]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

You can't have it both ways. You can't say Krueger ruined him then argue he was elite at the time.

Elite is subjective. I think for a lot of fans it has to be in the context of winning something. Otherwise he's Barry Sanders.

But Barry Sanders was the epitome of elite and he never won squat. Individual talent defines eliteness, not winning championships. Been many scrubs just along for the ride on championship teams.

[K-9]

2 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

I just watched the game since I was working last night. No doubt it was their best effort so far with the top line finally showing up. They got so damn lucky to come out with a win after completing collapsing in the last five minutes of the game. I don’t care how great they played in the previous 55 minutes, they didn’t deserve to win that game. 
 

Oh and Brady Tkachuck is a dirty POS. I hope the Sabres run him into the boards at the next game. 

You call completely collapsing in the last 5 minutes and blowing 4 goal lead is good?

Per the bold, what? They dominated Ottawa and handed them their collective butts for 55 minutes. If anything, they didn’t deserve to lose.