GDT: Flames @ Sabres, Oct. 19, 2023 - 7pm EDT, MSG 📺 WGR 📻

[Mango]

2 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

What does this say about Granato? At some point he has to actually coach. Do we even have a system to which the players can actually “commit” to playing? 
 

Most of the goals I see it looks like the offense and defense are playing on one of those old hockey games where the defenders are in slots and can’t move side to side. Far too often they just stand there and watch the opponent move, get open, and score. 

To this point I think we have enough Ryan Johnson’s, Dahlins, and Powers. We need a blue chip guy who digs his skates in and stands hard at the blue line. 
 

Simialryl, we have enough Thompson’s, Cozens, Skinners, who can’t or won’t play both ways. The entire pipeline is chock full of those guys. It’s not a coincidence that Mitts/Greenway are standing out. 
 

The team lacks balance in approach and in personnel. Somebody mentioned that Greenway is looking better than Meier right now. Looks like the right decision. But honestly this team could us both Greenway and Meier.
 

We’re just not tough enough in both directions. If we can provide high level support in both directions watch life get easier for Skinner, Cozens, Thompson. 

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

What can you change?  You just have to keep going with it. MAYBE you shuffle the top 2 lines.

People can blame coaching. They can blame Clifton making mistakes. People can say you should have gotten a better Vet goaltender.  The team is starting out bad and people will pick their own agenda and blame what they want to for this but I see this as primarily one reason they are starting out slow: Your top guys aren't scoring.

Last your your top 5 goal scorers (Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, Cozens, and Olofsson) had 177 goals.  This year through 4 games they have a total of 3 among them. If they were producing at the same 'rate' as last year, they would have close to 9.  

To me thats not really coaching, thats not your D-man play, that isn't goaltending. That is your top guys needing to get going.

Your top 5 goal scorers are 'pacing' about 6 goals short of expectations collectively. If they even had HALF of that back, you'd likely be 2-2 or 3-1.

You aren't playing Olofsson, but get the other guys going. That is all this team needs right now.

I totally agree with you here. 
 

But to answer OP’s question I think if this skid and more importantly this level of play continues we see Adams overpay (like waaaay overpay) to try and fix this in desperation. I think they could end up packaging a few prospects and picks to grab another goalie and/or defenseman.

This FO has been open about playoffs, Stanley cup, and getting the fans back in and believing in this core. After 12 years, I don’t think the org can ask the players to ask for the fans trust (and $$$) this year and miss the playoffs. 

[MISabresFan]

6 hours ago, SabresBillsFan said:

So the question is, what if the losing keeps continuing for another 4-5 games? Then what? I know it’s early but you don’t want to dig a big hole early in the season.

Not sure who said it on NHL Network Sirius Radio, but they mentioned maybe it's time for a more "seasoned" coach for the Sabres.  DG is a good development guy but it's time for this team to win.

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

Not sure who said it on NHL Network Sirius Radio, but they mentioned maybe it's time for a more "seasoned" coach for the Sabres.  DG is a good development guy but it's time for this team to win.

It’s possible. It was talked about last year. Something I am and was open to. But I also thought the team showed enough progress last year to give Donnie another season. The roster needed help, so you try and give your guys the tools to succeed and the freedom to fail.  

I expected the team to at least be a bit more fiery to open the year. 

 

[Slack_in_MA]

I've been a fan of Granato for how he teaches and handles young players. But I fear he's almost too nice of a guy for what this team needs. I think teams tend to take on the personality of their coach after a while. 

Teams can win if they're not particularly physical and tough, provided they have superior speed and skill, but I'm not seeing superior speed and skill. My eyeballs tell me that we're just too easy to play against physically. I'm sure there are fancy stats out there that will prove me wrong, but when I watch other NHL games, I notice that more physical teams force turnovers and make their opponents think about skating around freely and crashing the net at will. It's an attitude we're lacking-- we're a little too "cool" right now. 

[French Collection]

Last place in the East, I would have never thought that was coming. One win will change that but they need to string a few together to not dig a hole.

They need a wake up call and this better be enough. It is a tough league and no one is giving you any points. There is way too much talent drifting around, they need to battle for pucks and space.

Tuch is my biggest disappointment so far, no speed when he carries the puck and he is not physical on the forecheck.

KO is teaching them to be better people but he is not making a difference on the ice.

It is way too early to start looking at the ‘24 draft but they better change something soon.

[Stoner]

23 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

Not sure who said it on NHL Network Sirius Radio, but they mentioned maybe it's time for a more "seasoned" coach for the Sabres.  DG is a good development guy but it's time for this team to win.

This is so obvious to me. He's Ron Rolston. At some point when you get serious about winning, there's someone else behind the bench.

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

This is so obvious to me. He's Ron Rolston. At some point when you get serious about winning, there's someone else behind the bench.

I like this FO and HC. So let me start there. 

They are really hockey people who have helped stabilize a very unstable hockey franchise. 

But I have also been open to the idea that they are the Buddy Nix/Chan Bailey’s of the franchise. A necessary force to bring some more hockey respectability to a franchise who lost it a long time ago. Unfortunately they may have taken the franchise as far as they are both capable of. Which sucks. 

On the plus side, I think this is now an org that more senior  hockey execs and HC’s would jump at the chance to be apart of. A lot of good pieces. A great pipeline. But needs a push to get over the top.

Too early to commit to that being the case just 2 weeks in. But it’s certainly possible. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, Kristian said:

I’m sorry, but I just don’t see it.

Would like to be wrong, but I don’t see who’s going to rise to the occasion?

This is an organisation of people who hang their heads when the going gets tough, not the other way around.

We’ll be in a 10-game hole mid-december this way.

Well you’d be completely wrong.  This is the same core if guys who suffered through an 8 games losing streak plus 3 other 4 game losing streaks last year and missed the playoffs by a point.  They fought all season last year.  I don’t see that changing this year.  How they handled adversity last year, such as all the D injuries, is the reason I remain optimistic and continue to consul waiting at least 10 games before jumping off the ledge. 

As I posted earlier they started last year 9-12-1 and then found their stride.  FYI go to hockey-reference’s game log if you want to verify the data.  Remember this is still the youngest in the NHL.  They will be streaky again and have ups and downs over the next 6 months.  

There are signs of hope.  JJP and Mitts, two guys I thought would take a step forward, look improved.  Greenway looks healthy.  Thompson, Skinner and Cozens looked better over the last 2 games.  Benching VO has sadly helped.  I also notice the TNT line working harder on D, especially TNT.  

Also on D I like what EJ is bringing and Levi’s talent is undeniable even with the slow start.  He is keeping us in games.  

Admittedly others have been invisible or bad, like Tuch and Clifton.  All the D need to be better.  Scoring first would help.

 

 

 

 

[That Aud Smell]

18 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

This is so obvious to me. He's Ron Rolston. At some point when you get serious about winning, there's someone else behind the bench.

Disagree with the Rolston comparison. But I am starting to lean this way. Bring in one of the retread warhorses whose message infamously gets tuned out after a few years. In the meantime, make the gotdamn playoffs.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Ok, another Thoughts and Observations:

Greenway is playing well above expectations!! Quick, physical, backchecks full speed. Definitely Impressed. 

Love Benson, but starting to think he should be sent back. He needs to get stronger!! He is definitely good enough to stay, but maybe being patient with him the best bet. 

Levi made some beautiful saves but was definitely struggling as well. 2 of those goals against should not have been, and the once called no goal was definitely a goal! LOL

We looked like boys playing against men from the starting drop of the puck. Not sure what the hell is going on, but this team still cannot handle a heavy forecheck and folds like an old deck of cards

PK actually looks really good!!! 

Our team looked disinterested at times. The speed of snail coming back to our defensive zone was abhorrent!! Calgary came to play, Buffalo did not get the memo.

 

Still going to wait for the 10 games, but it is not looking good for the boys of Blue and Gold (Or Red and black). Detroit and Ottawa are playing well, while we are still trying to get out of preseason mode. Glad i cannot watch on Saturday, as this team is already getting frustrating to watch. 

 

[sabresparaavida]

One thing that really impressed me last night was Mitts’ backchecking. I know that line got caught on the ice too long a couple times last night, but Mitts made some good plays hounding the puck in our own zone. 

[Radar]

1 hour ago, MISabresFan said:

Not sure who said it on NHL Network Sirius Radio, but they mentioned maybe it's time for a more "seasoned" coach for the Sabres.  DG is a good development guy but it's time for this team to win.

Not this season but no playoffs could mean DG in trouble.

[matter2003]

16 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Oh God no...

I got us...wearing my Goathead Tage Thompson jersey tonight...never have lost when I have worn it.

First time for everything...but at least I helped him score 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

I think that’s the point. OP is saying what we should be doing is asking “what’s best for our best prospect/goalie” and instead we’re saying “what do we have to do to not sink this ship”.

There in lies the rub.  Levi is by far the best of the 3 goalies. Could he have benefited from a month or two in the AHL?  Sure. Of course. 

Are we going with UPL and Comrie?  If yes, we are bottom feeders again. 

Are we trying to win and make the playoffs?   That answer should be “yes”.  
 

How many off seasons wasted by not bringing in a NHL goalie?  Oh, but Adams brought Tokarski back again, that’s right. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Pimlach

[thewookie1]

Why does CGY have our number in Buffalo? Yet we play well against them in Calgary?

[Kristian]

47 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Well you’d be completely wrong.  This is the same core if guys who suffered through an 8 games losing streak plus 3 other 4 game losing streaks last year and missed the playoffs by a point.  They fought all season last year.  I don’t see that changing this year.  How they handled adversity last year, such as all the D injuries, is the reason I remain optimistic and continue to consul waiting at least 10 games before jumping off the ledge. 

As I posted earlier they started last year 9-12-1 and then found their stride.  FYI go to hockey-reference’s game log if you want to verify the data.  Remember this is still the youngest in the NHL.  They will be streaky again and have ups and downs over the next 6 months.  

There are signs of hope.  JJP and Mitts, two guys I thought would take a step forward, look improved.  Greenway looks healthy.  Thompson, Skinner and Cozens looked better over the last 2 games.  Benching VO has sadly helped.  I also notice the TNT line working harder on D, especially TNT.  

Also on D I like what EJ is bringing and Levi’s talent is undeniable even with the slow start.  He is keeping us in games.  

Admittedly others have been invisible or bad, like Tuch and Clifton.  All the D need to be better.  Scoring first would help.

 

 

 

 

We’ll see.

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Got home. Tried to cast Flames at Sabres from the MSG Plus app. Rangers game came on. Tech support was no help. Watched the HL package on YouTube. Looked good on my useless new TV. Seemed to know how it was going to turn out. Ate a bowl of chili and seven Oreos. I hate Oreos.

Say what?   

[Crusader1969]

11 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Team has 18 year olds on it with a ton of guys under 21.  Expecting a team that young to be a playoff contender might be a bit unrealistic.  Since we have gone full on youth, it takes a while to season them and learn the game at this level.  And we have 3-5 more young prospects to add the next few years.  It could be years of this. 

they are all ready playoff contenders. You want to pretend last year didnt happen? and we are 4 games into this season. Its not like every other team they are competing with are all 4-0 either.

[Stoner]

11 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Say what?   

I know you dunked em in scotch after many a Sabre loss in the early days. Dodo always rolled her eyes.

[Scottysabres]

27 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Why does CGY have our number in Buffalo? Yet we play well against them in Calgary?

The Sabres struggles at home are no secret, regardless of opponent. Hence the slumping tickets sales thread?

The team continues to play poorly over all, but especially at home. These points they aren't getting, cost them a playoff birth last season.

Outside of adding EJ, which looks like a solid bottom 6 move short term anyways, and Clifton, which I can only assume was their attempt to bolster the top 4, which 4 games in looks to be a complete disaster thus far, this team outside of starting goalie looks nearly identical to last seasons roster.

Levi will need time to adjust to the NHL. Yea he came in for 4 or 5 games at the end of last season where the team was clawing for a playoff spot. The start of this season has exposed the teams same weakness it's had for a long time, team defense. And Levi will suffer because of it. Imho.

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Scottysabres

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I know you dunked em in scotch after many a Sabre loss in the early days. Dodo always rolled her eyes.

But I got us a goalie right away, and I brought in veterans to show the way, and I would never put out a team that got pushed around either.  
 

Oreos are my favorite.   Oreos and Glenn Livett 

[Getpucksdeep]

Is there video somewhere of the (no) goal against from center ice?  Was at game and they did not show it on the screen.

[Broken Ankles]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

There are some master politicians on this board. Don't y'all know your comments just days ago are still easily accessible? I mean, own them. Stop being weasels.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Lets review after 4 games, shall we ..

Sabres record ...

1 - 0 - 0 = when NS starts the GDT

0 - 3 - 0 = when *others* start the GDT

I believe that the answer is clear.