Don Granato the Worm Tongue and the Culture of Losing

[Pimlach]

14 minutes ago, ... said:

He was traded away by the Sabres as a player. They wouldn't promote him after his success with the Buffalo Junior Sabres. He went out and proved he could work at the pro level and subsequently took another gig "nearby" with the Amerks clearly trying to advance his coaching career. The Sabres wouldn't promote him again so he walked.

Why would he choose to work for the Sabres after giving them so many chances?

Did we not all wish the Sabres would have upgraded their assistant coaches and add someone who could help with the PP and overall defensive play? This is the same team that is starting a young, unproven goalie with unproven goalies as backups, not to mention a roster full of unproven players - so the excuse that Peca needs to prove himself first is a bit hypocritical.

"They" is not all the same people.  

The "They" that didn't sign him as a player is long gone.  The "They" that didn't hire him after his stint with the Jr Sabres is long gone - not to mention the leap from juniors to NHL is quite steep.   

The "They" that did not promote him from assistant coach in Rochester to assistant coach in Buffalo is the current regime.  Apparently "They" did not think his moving up was an upgrade to their staff right now - even if some of the fans do (including me).   Maybe that is a mistake?  We don't know yet.  We know he was a Selke winner and a fan favorite so we want to believe that he should be able to help the PK and the defensive play but we don't know, we are fans with limited access.  We do know that Laviolette knows him and is giving him a shot.  

His leaving and working for a past coach is normal.  It is the way most coaching careers advance.  You take the best job offered instead of waiting around to be promoted.  If Granato gets fired there is no guarantee that one of his assistants, or Appert, will get his job, or that any of them will even be retained.  

I think he is better off working for a proven NHL coach in the long run.  He will learn more and integrate the things he likes from DG and from PL into his own style. 

 Peca leaving does not mean he would not ever come back if the right offer was there.  Trust me on it.  

 

[Weave]

I’d rather Peca return as an experienced head coach with a proven resume than hire our…. Counting on my fingers…. 5th out of the last 6 head coaches to learn on the job as a newb.

Ok we are lamenting him going away instead of promoting him as an assistant.  Same vibe to me.  Lets support Granato with a veteran coach, not a guy learning on the job while Granato learns on the job.  FFS

Edited October 19, 2023 by Weave

[...]

@Pimlach and @Taro T you're both obviously correct. I have no quarrel with any of your points. I have no doubt, too, that a mentorship under Laviolette is probably exactly what Peca needs to develop into a head coach. And while Peca's personal story of being repeatedly drawn into the orbit of an organization only to exit that orbit on multiple occasions, developing his skills and self along the way, only to return once again as a learned and battle-hardened warrior leader will/would be cool, and in this world more realistic, I'd like to see a tale of loyalty and success - some narrative that would negate the entire Lindy affair.

Would have been a great opportunity for that while taking a chance on a new voice addressing our clear deficiencies behind the bench.

 

[dudacek]

Peca is one of my all-time faves and I’d be happier if he was in the organization.

That said, I suspect some of the same people who criticized 30-year pro coach Granato as inexperienced would be happy with handing Peca the reins after what, 3 years?

I find it kinda disingenuous to characterize the situation as “the Sabres refused to promote him”. He has 2 years pro experience as a bench coach, both in the AHL, both with the Buffalo organization. 

The thing people seem to be overlooking in the Peca case is that there wasn’t a job available on the Sabres coaching staff. They literally have 5 assistants. They actually did offer him a job with Buffalo, but not behind the bench. Sure, you have no problem firing someone (Matt Ellis is the likely suspect) in order to keep him, but they apparently like what they have.

He got an offer he liked better and took it. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by dudacek

[GoPuckYourself]

Why do people keep defending Granato, this guy just doesn't have it as a Stanley Cup champion coach. It's more of the same with this team, we suck at home, we are unprepared. I'm even starting to question Adams also, how in the world does half this board know we needed another goalie but our GM who is supposed to have hockey knowledge beyond ours not go out and get 1 4 years in a row, a good 1 that is. 

[Carmel Corn]

3 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Why do people keep defending Granato, this guy just doesn't have it as a Stanley Cup champion coach. It's more of the same with this team, we suck at home, we are unprepared. I'm even starting to question Adams also, how in the world does half this board know we needed another goalie but our GM who is supposed to have hockey knowledge beyond ours not go out and get 1 4 years in a row, a good 1 that is. 

I question whether or not he even has it as a successful head coach (in the NHL).  He's 56 and never had an NHL head coaching gig until the Sabres.  I'd rather a more proven head coach, which may now be more possible given our talent pool.  I recognize there was a time where most seasoned NHL coaches would not want the job...so maybe we settled on Meatballs

[zow2]

i like Granato but If we don’t finish at least above .500 at home i’d can him.  I’m tired of this. Fans in the stands or not, the Sabres are so easy to play against in Buffalo.  Opponents love coming here, it’s an easy night compared to most barns.

[Believer]

Already tired of Granato’s post game explanations of our early season… He is an excellent analyst… He is an awful leader… He actually referred to his players tonight as “they” instead of “we” as if he is separate and apart from them, their effort, and their results… 

Have yet to hear him convey any passion this season… Easy to understand why Tuch and Thompson sound flat in their postgame comments…

Starts with him.

[Radar]

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

Peca is one of my all-time faves and I’d be happier if he was in the organization.

That said, I suspect some of the same people who criticized 30-year pro coach Granato as inexperienced would be happy with handing Peca the reins after what, 3 years?

I find it kinda disingenuous to characterize the situation as “the Sabres refused to promote him”. He has 2 years pro experience as a bench coach, both in the AHL, both with the Buffalo organization. 

The thing people seem to be overlooking in the Peca case is that there wasn’t a job available on the Sabres coaching staff. They literally have 5 assistants. They actually did offer him a job with Buffalo, but not behind the bench. Sure, you have no problem firing someone (Matt Ellis is the likely suspect) in order to keep him, but they apparently like what they have.

He got an offer he liked better and took it. 

Seems to me I remember another former player whose name begins with H that fans clamored for. How'd that work out. I love Peca don't get me wrong and I wouldn't be surprised at all if someday he's a head coach but his resume is still being developed.

[MISabresFan]

When comparing Peca's coaching history to Rod Brind'Amour's, It took Rod 7 years in the Hurricanes organization before he became head coach.  Starting in 2012, Michael has spent 2 years with Jr. Sabers and was coach of the year, head coach of the Major Jr. Sabers, and GM of hockey ops for Jr. Sabres.  Worked as Capitals player development coach and Amerks assistant coach.  As we all know, in 2023, he is now with the Rangers as a bench coach.

Based on Rod the Bod's history and Peca's I believe he is ready to make that jump to HC in the NHL.

 

 

 

[Curt]

49 minutes ago, MISabresFan said:

When comparing Peca's coaching history to Rod Brind'Amour's, It took Rod 7 years in the Hurricanes organization before he became head coach.  Starting in 2012, Michael has spent 2 years with Jr. Sabers and was coach of the year, head coach of the Major Jr. Sabers, and GM of hockey ops for Jr. Sabres.  Worked as Capitals player development coach and Amerks assistant coach.  As we all know, in 2023, he is now with the Rangers as a bench coach.

Based on Rod the Bod's history and Peca's I believe he is ready to make that jump to HC in the NHL.

 

Brind'Amour was an NHL Assistant Coach for 7 years before becoming an NHL HC.

Peca has been HC in a 2nd tier junior league for 2 years, an NHL player development coach for half a season, and an AHL Assistant Coach for 2 seasons, and now an actual NHL job as an Assistant Coach this season.

Do you honestly think that those two resumes of experience look equivalent?

[matter2003]

Did they have a culture of losing last year when they had a winning record?

[MISabresFan]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Brind'Amour was an NHL Assistant Coach for 7 years before becoming an NHL HC.

Peca has been HC in a 2nd tier junior league for 2 years, an NHL player development coach for half a season, and an AHL Assistant Coach for 2 seasons, and now an actual NHL job as an Assistant Coach this season.

Do you honestly think that those two resumes of experience look equivalent?

I believe Peca is a more "rounded" candidate based on his past experiences, so yes I believe he would be successful.  

[MISabresFan]

48 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Did they have a culture of losing last year when they had a winning record?

No, Rod took over a team with a 36-31-15 record for 87 points.  Next year 99 points.

[#freejame]

5 hours ago, Radar said:

Seems to me I remember another former player whose name begins with H that fans clamored for. How'd that work out. I love Peca don't get me wrong and I wouldn't be surprised at all if someday he's a head coach but his resume is still being developed.

Housley was pretty consensus “next young coach.” His work in Nashville was pretty great. Maybe Peca will learn a thing or two from him in NY. 

[Taro T]

22 hours ago, #freejame said:

Housley was pretty consensus “next young coach.” His work in Nashville was pretty great. Maybe Peca will learn a thing or two from him in NY. 

Housley was brought in as an assistant coach on a team that already had a great corps of D-men and he didn't f' it up.  He didn't make that D great.  That D made HIM look better than he was.

Adam Gase didn't make Peyton Manning.  Peyton Manning made people believe they saw things in Gase that simply aren't there.

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Housley was brought in as an assistant coach on a team that already had a great corps of D-men and he didn't f' it up.  He didn't make that D great.  That D made HIM look better than he was.

Adam Gase didn't make Peyton Manning.  Peyton Manning made people believe they saw things in Gase that simply aren't there.

But a lot of people DO ***** it up. Was he responsible for their greatness? No. Was he good enough to sustain them and possibly make them better? Probably. 

Look at the transition from Daboll to Dorsey. If Dorsey is Housley level at OC are the Bills better?

Is that indicative of a good coach? Im not sure. It certainly doesn’t make him a bad coach. It definitely doesn’t make him a great coach. But it probably makes him a good coach at a specialty. 

[LTS]

10 hours ago, Taro T said:

Housley was brought in as an assistant coach on a team that already had a great corps of D-men and he didn't f' it up.  He didn't make that D great.  That D made HIM look better than he was.

Adam Gase didn't make Peyton Manning.  Peyton Manning made people believe they saw things in Gase that simply aren't there.

I think Adam Gase saw things no one else saw though.

https://images.app.goo.gl/QEsn57ZHfS8A5fTb9

[Dr K]

Granato's record of developing young players like Dahlin and Thompson, and seeing the potential in players like Greenway, suggests to me that dumping him would be a big mistake.  Some fans seem to discount what they've got, always longing for the brilliant coach they are just sure will never make a mistake, automatically assuming that they abilities of the coach they want to dump are inconsiderable and will somehow carry over to the imaginary supercoach they want to get.