Zach Benson's NHL tryout, 2023

[Brawndo]

 

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

Yep he's staying congrats. 

@LGR4GM I was wrong about him ...   it would be pretty regrettable now if we traded that pick

Edited October 17, 2023 by Buffalonill

[Hank]

I see three defensemen not named Dahlin on that list (Dahlin is not on it), and Olofsson is #9, so I have no idea what to make of xGF%.  I don't mean that in a snarky way, just something to consider.  

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Yep he's staying congrats. 

@LGR4GM I was wrong about him ...   it would be pretty regrettable now if we traded that pick

Depends what we would have gotten for the pick. But, I do have a special place in my heart for how Benson plays. He's better than I thought though. 

[Buffalonill]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Depends what we would have gotten for the pick. But, I do have a special place in my heart for how Benson plays. He's better than I thought though. 

Most likely Jakob Chychrun

[French Collection]

I just had a thought about Benson and Quinn together, I think they could be terrific. I don’t know who centres them (Mitts, Cozens, Savoie or Krebs) but they are both so creative that they could score goals in ways we haven’t seen. They have high hockey IQ and play chess compared to most guys playing checkers.

[Hawerchuk]

Benson is hustling all over the ice and he works hard. Its been great to see.

So my question is this. What does it really matter if he stays and burns a year of his entry level contract? What is the downside to that? I've never understood it really. If he's going to be good, which seems to be the case, why care about losing a year?

Let's go Buffalo - Time to get in the win column tonight!

[LTS]

15 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Depends what we would have gotten for the pick. But, I do have a special place in my heart for how Benson plays. He's better than I thought though. 

So far, I am in this boat with him.  He's enjoyable to watch and I don't say it about a ton of players.  He's where he needs to be ALMOST all of the time. Now, give it another 20 games and some of the new car smell might wear off.

9 minutes ago, Hawerchuk said:

Benson is hustling all over the ice and he works hard. Its been great to see.

So my question is this. What does it really matter if he stays and burns a year of his entry level contract? What is the downside to that? I've never understood it really. If he's going to be good, which seems to be the case, why care about losing a year?

Let's go Buffalo - Time to get in the win column tonight!

It only matters for timing of contracts and payouts.  The downside is that potential that he starts strong and bottoms out in the first season or that his sophomore season isn't as good for some reason.  There's an whole host of potential negatives that could come into play.

But, as long as he can play as a 3rd line player or better.. there is no downside. 

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, Hawerchuk said:

Benson is hustling all over the ice and he works hard. Its been great to see.

So my question is this. What does it really matter if he stays and burns a year of his entry level contract? What is the downside to that? I've never understood it really. If he's going to be good, which seems to be the case, why care about losing a year?

Years ago somebody pointed out that a marginal teenage NHLer needed to be sent down before his 10th game or a team would have to sign him to his 2nd contract a year earlier.

The hockey community said “hey, you’re right” and it became a huge talking point for all teenage players, to the point that the talkers forgot the key word here was “marginal”.

Shorter version: You shouldn’t.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Hawerchuk said:

Benson is hustling all over the ice and he works hard. Its been great to see.

So my question is this. What does it really matter if he stays and burns a year of his entry level contract? What is the downside to that? I've never understood it really. If he's going to be good, which seems to be the case, why care about losing a year?

Let's go Buffalo - Time to get in the win column tonight!

The only downside for Buffalo is that Jeff Skinner has 4 years left on his deal. If you slide Benson's ELC that means Skinner's 9mil is off the books when Benson hits his post ELC deal. That said, I don't worry about it. If he helps us win, keep him.

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

On 10/15/2023 at 12:47 PM, Believer said:

Was a VO defender as well… but if he isn’t scoring goals or getting assists, his defense is a real liability…

Sabres have too many assets that can move into his place for them to stay patient until he starts scoring…

Know he is very well liked by teammates but a change of systems may do wonders for him… Look what it did for Eichel.

I don't think VO has the physical talent/skating to ever do what Eichel did to turn his career around. Eichel literally fell into a perfect and I mean perfect situation for him. While there was some pressure on him, he was largely insulated from needing to be THE guy. 

VO's time has come up and it's time the Sabres no longer accept players that neutralize and make you worse at Even Strength. While he's a PP weapon, he has made every line he plays on worse, including when he was with Eichel/Reinhart years ago. 

That said, VO has a place in this league and will catch on somewhere and probably be a solid 20-25 goal scorer. However I don't believe that'll be on a Stanley cup contending team that prioritizes competitiveness and ES play.

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The only downside for Buffalo is that Jeff Skinner has 4 years left on his deal. If you slide Benson's ELC that means Skinner's 9mil is off the books when Benson hits his post ELC deal. That said, I don't worry about it. If he helps us win, keep him.

I think with one year left, a Skinner buyout could be in play. I believe it's much more palatable at that point. If Benson keeps developing as many of expect, they'll do what they need to do to sign him and likely long-term.

He is looking like a core piece whether he develops into a true first liner or even a defensively responsible middle 6'er. Guys that can play a strong 2-way game, with a top notch IQ/processing speed with what looks like elite playmaking skills are fairly uncommon. The Sabres have had basically zero players like this for several years. Reinhart might've been the last to have many of these attributes. Obviously it's so early and things can certainly go downhill as teams figure him out or as the competition he faces gets steeper. But I see a dang good player there that has a lot of things you just can't teach in his game.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

I think with one year left, a Skinner buyout could be in play. I believe it's much more palatable at that point. If Benson keeps developing as many of expect, they'll do what they need to do to sign him and likely long-term.

He is looking like a core piece whether he develops into a true first liner or even a defensively responsible middle 6'er. Guys that can play a strong 2-way game, with a top notch IQ/processing speed with what looks like elite playmaking skills are fairly uncommon. The Sabres have had basically zero players like this for several years. Reinhart might've been the last to have many of these attributes. Obviously it's so early and things can certainly go downhill as teams figure him out or as the competition he faces gets steeper. But I see a dang good player there that has a lot of things you just can't teach in his game.

On Benson, I would be surprised if he leveled off at a middle 6er but it is possible. He lacks elite speed and his shot is currently just above average. I think though with his motor, puck skills, and smarts that he most likely turns into a very good to borderline elite top line guy. He is going to be a nightmare at 5'11" 190lbs if he gets there. 

I will add that one thing Benson has that Reinhart never did was grit. Benson is a pain in the ass, he stick lifts like a all star and his is IMPO smarter than Reinhart. 

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

14 hours ago, French Collection said:

I just had a thought about Benson and Quinn together, I think they could be terrific. I don’t know who centres them (Mitts, Cozens, Savoie or Krebs) but they are both so creative that they could score goals in ways we haven’t seen. They have high hockey IQ and play chess compared to most guys playing checkers.

Such a good post and call out! Sorry for triple posting here, but had to comment on this.

I totally agree that these two are the future. I see so much potential in Jack Quinn due to the way he thinks the game. He's also equally adept at goalscoring and playmaking, so should be a top line guy in his prime. It's quite possible that Tage and company become second liners when we're ready to take the next step. The big question again becomes who centers these two potentially elite scoring wingers. Not sure Tage thinks the game or is defensively sound enough to be a true top line center on a contender. Hate to say it, but that could end up holding this team back at some point.

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

On Benson, I would be surprised if he leveled off at a middle 6er but it is possible. He lacks elite speed and his shot is currently just above average. I think though with his motor, puck skills, and smarts that he most likely turns into a very good to borderline elite top line guy. He is going to be a nightmare at 5'11" 190lbs if he gets there. 

I will add that one thing Benson has that Reinhart never did was grit. Benson is a pain in the ass, he stick lifts like a all star and his is IMPO smarter than Reinhart. 

I tend to agree, but have been burned enough times by Sabres prospects that I need to somewhat temper my excitement. I truly think it's much more likely he's a very good first liner or elite level second liner. My worst case scenario is one of absolute best third liners in hockey, which wouldn't be bad for 13th overall just not the steal we think we all made here.

He's a better NHL'er at 18 than Reinhart was for sure. Like you said, once he gets stronger and his skating improves as a result, he'll be a nightmare for opponents. He's the type of player you'd rather have for playoff hockey than a more passive guy like Reinhart. But I don't want to put the cart too ahead of the horse on this.

[...]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He is going to be a nightmare at 5'11" 190lbs if he gets there. 

Which is unlikely. The Sabres have him listed at 5′9″, 163lbs.

Most kids are done growing at around 18 years old.

 

I think the best we can hope for is a 5'10" Zach Benson.

[Curt]

35 minutes ago, ... said:

Which is unlikely. The Sabres have him listed at 5′9″, 163lbs.

Most kids are done growing at around 18 years old.

 

I think the best we can hope for is a 5'10" Zach Benson.

Not that it makes a huge difference, but he measured 5’10 170 at the draft combine and was listed as such on the Sabres training camp roster.

It would be cool if he could end up 5’11 185 at 25.  We’ll see.

[Taro T]

39 minutes ago, ... said:

Which is unlikely. The Sabres have him listed at 5′9″, 163lbs.

Most kids are done growing at around 18 years old.

 

I think the best we can hope for is a 5'10" Zach Benson.

Doug Gilmour at 5'10" still would've been Doug Gilmour even without that extra inch.

This kid just has 'it.'  And would love to see the Sabres having lucked into our own version of him.  (Much like St. Louis lucked into him so many years ago.)

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

On Benson, I would be surprised if he leveled off at a middle 6er but it is possible. He lacks elite speed and his shot is currently just above average. I think though with his motor, puck skills, and smarts that he most likely turns into a very good to borderline elite top line guy. He is going to be a nightmare at 5'11" 190lbs if he gets there. 

I will add that one thing Benson has that Reinhart never did was grit. Benson is a pain in the ass, he stick lifts like a all star and his is IMPO smarter than Reinhart. 

You mentioned Reinhart...it goes without saying a lot of the 'scouting report' is the same between them.  Lacks elite speed. Shot average to above average at best.  kinda small.

The differences?  Reinhart has a bit more size and maybe a slightly better shot, but seemed (at least in the fans eye) to lack the grit/motor that Benson has.

[...]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Doug Gilmour at 5'10" still would've been Doug Gilmour even without that extra inch.

This kid just has 'it.'  And would love to see the Sabres having lucked into our own version of him.  (Much like St. Louis lucked into him so many years ago.)

I'm not complaining, just pointing out that he likely won't make it to 5'11. Maybe he will but the fancy stats indicate he likely will not. Patrick Kane is 5'10 177lbs. It'll be okay.

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

You mentioned Reinhart...it goes without saying a lot of the 'scouting report' is the same between them.  Lacks elite speed. Shot average to above average at best.  kinda small.

The differences?  Reinhart has a bit more size and maybe a slightly better shot, but seemed (at least in the fans eye) to lack the grit/motor that Benson has.

Reinhart worked a lot on his shot to go from muffins to average. Reinhart was a bit bigger but would fall every time there was contact. Reinhart has a high hockey IQ as well but I think Benson’s is higher. Reinhart’s net front work on the PP was good as far as tips and rebounds.

I find Benson’s grit can categorized as dog on a bone. His ability to steal pucks is something Mark Stone has been really good at and that gave him some Selke consideration.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

You mentioned Reinhart...it goes without saying a lot of the 'scouting report' is the same between them.  Lacks elite speed. Shot average to above average at best.  kinda small.

The differences?  Reinhart has a bit more size and maybe a slightly better shot, but seemed (at least in the fans eye) to lack the grit/motor that Benson has.

I don’t see them as particularly similar, especially not when Reinhart was also 18.

I think the similarities would be below average shots and good passing.  Apart from that I don’t see much.

Reinhart was always supposed to be a C, and Benson is a wing.  Reinhart was never a small player, Benson is small.  Benson lacks great speed, but I think he is actually a fine skater.  Reinhart was pretty terrible at the same age.  He could barely stay on his feet and he was slow.  Reinhart was always fine defensively, but Benson has a tenacity to his game that Reinhart never has.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, ... said:

Which is unlikely. The Sabres have him listed at 5′9″, 163lbs.

Most kids are done growing at around 18 years old.

 

I think the best we can hope for is a 5'10" Zach Benson.

No they don't. The Sabres have Benson listed at 5'10" 170lbs.

[Curt]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

No they don't. The Sabres have Benson listed at 5'10" 170lbs.

If you go the the Sabres NHL website, it says 5’9” 163.  On the training camp roster they had him at 5’10” 170.

🤷🏻‍♂️

[K-9]

Are the combine weights and measures not definitive?