Sabres Prospect Updates 23-24

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

From hearing Adams talk about his D, really expect all of his top 8 are going to be back.

And, while sure, anybody could be traded, and he would be a key piece in a package for something else the Sabres need; just can't see them getting rid of the only RHD they have that's remotely close to being ready for prime time.  (And sure, they could bring in somebody else to then replace Jokiharju, but again, Adams talks VERY highly of his D.  Personally, believe they're too young to be high end, but they (minus Johnson) have a LOT of NHL experience for their ages; MAYBE Adams will be right and that experience will leave them fully cooked/baked/finished(/however you want to describe it) this season.)

With a couple of glaring exceptions, (such as an inability to defend the puck below the goal line; or an inability to box out/tie up sticks in front of the net) the D itself was pretty good at defending (they didn't get much help from their F's IMHO), so maybe there's something to Adams' belief in his D.

Unless Byram flames out, Henri’s contract is going to force a move sooner or later.

As to the bold, pretty much exactly how I saw it. Thought I was the only one.

If they can improve the areas you mention and Lindy can get the forwards to commit to helping out the way they should, this blueline corps could be very good. Not many blue lines have their hands and feet.

[K-9]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I saw something about how Samuelsson is doing well. There will be no (current) issues with him being ready for training camp.

Im curious about the potential for Johnson (blocked) or Jokiharju (contract, and way more in demand than this board would have you believe as a 24-year-old veteran RHD) being moved this summer.

The top 4 is set and Clifton is safe. 

I think they’re comfortable with Bryson as a #7 if they move someone, or decide to cook Johnson some more.

Not sure Jacob gets qualified though.

The progress of Komarov and Novikov, plus the additions of Strbak and Byram has done wonders for the defensive depth.

Imo, Johnson needs more time to cook in the A. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Imo, Johnson needs more time to cook in the A. 

He's about to be 23, how much more time you giving him? Why bother when you can get something now for him. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

He's about to be 23, how much more time you giving him? Why bother when you can get something now for him. 

By all means, get what you can for him. Fine by me. All I’m saying is I don’t think he’s a top 6 D man at this point

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Presuming all are healthy, a big if considering there's no word on how Samuelsson is recovering from the shoulder injury, would have him the typical 7 but taking a few games from Jokiharju.  He would be the 1st guy into the lineup when the inevitable injuries hit.  Bryson is the 8 out of the gate.

So you're going to pay your #7 D over 4 million dollars? That in no way works. You have to trade him then. You ready to do that?

[dudacek]

22 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

So you're going to pay your #7 D over 4 million dollars? That in no way works. You have to trade him then. You ready to do that?

Think he was talking about Johnson.

[PerreaultForever]

40 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Think he was talking about Johnson.

That would make more sense than paying Samuelsson to not play but makes no sense to me either. The whole keep them on the roster thing they did with Granato has to end. Young guys need to play and learn and work to get back. They do not need to sit around and watch. 

I can run you a comparable (since I'm familiar with them) on how the Bruins sent Lohrei down multiple times all year. Every time he started to struggle a little or someone else was healthy they didn't  send Lohrei to the press box. they sent him to Providence. On a real hockey team your NHL practice time should not be more valuable than your AHL game time (and practice).

If Johnson is good enough to beat someone out of the line up he should get that opportunity (like Lohrei over Gryzlek) but if he's not, he should be in Rochester. 

[dudacek]

36 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

That would make more sense than paying Samuelsson to not play but makes no sense to me either. The whole keep them on the roster thing they did with Granato has to end. Young guys need to play and learn and work to get back. They do not need to sit around and watch. 

I can run you a comparable (since I'm familiar with them) on how the Bruins sent Lohrei down multiple times all year. Every time he started to struggle a little or someone else was healthy they didn't  send Lohrei to the press box. they sent him to Providence. On a real hockey team your NHL practice time should not be more valuable than your AHL game time (and practice).

If Johnson is good enough to beat someone out of the line up he should get that opportunity (like Lohrei over Gryzlek) but if he's not, he should be in Rochester. 

I agree with this specifically and the philosophy in general.

Some people seem to think Johnson is among our top 4 defencemen. I don't think he is in our top 6.

If he's not he should be playing, not watching.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I agree with this specifically and the philosophy in general.

Some people seem to think Johnson is among our top 4 defencemen. I don't think he is in our top 6.

If he's not he should be playing, not watching.

Anyone thinking Johnson is in our top four did not watch many of his Amerks games. He had some fine moments and some bad moments and most of the time looked like he has much to learn and improve upon. He’s a terrific skater with some offensive skill, but he needs to be better defensively in his own zone. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I agree with this specifically and the philosophy in general.

Some people seem to think Johnson is among our top 4 defencemen. I don't think he is in our top 6.

If he's not he should be playing, not watching.

I have noticed some over valuing of him around here. Not sure anyone puts him in the top 4 but they definitely think he's more NHL ready than I do. 

It will be interesting to see which D Ruff values most and how he pairs them up. There could be some changes as some adapt to his system and structure and some have more trouble with it. 

[LGR4GM]

If Johnson isn't on the roster for 2024, trade him. There's no need to keep him with how many lhd we have and he'd have value to improve the forwards or get a good rhd from a team that needs some cap relief. 11 and Johnson would interest any number of teams who are looking to move an upper middle 6 forward. It's the exact type of trade you see around the nhl from real teams.

[Archie Lee]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If Johnson isn't on the roster for 2024, trade him. There's no need to keep him with how many lhd we have and he'd have value to improve the forwards or get a good rhd from a team that needs some cap relief. 11 and Johnson would interest any number of teams who are looking to move an upper middle 6 forward. It's the exact type of trade you see around the nhl from real teams.

I would be fine with them trading Johnson. Of course, a potential trade of any of our top prospects and picks comes with the “for the right player” qualifier.
 

He was born the same year as Cozens, Krebs, Byram, Quinn and Levi. There is currently not a top-6 D-spot for him on the team. I would not have an issue with him being Clifton’s partner on the 3rd pair, but have we improved our D core/depth for the coming critical season if we trade Joker or Samuelsson (or Clifton, I guess) and replace that player with Johnson?

In a world where getting better in the short and long term is the true priority, I think we trade Joker for a bottom 6 forward upgrade, sign a UFA right shot D (Demelo, Roy, Tanev, Pesce), keep Johnson in Rochester and next off-season make the difficult decision to either trade Johnson or make room for him in the NHL by trading Byram or Samuelsson. The Russians don’t come into the NHL picture until 26-27  

I know this likely isn’t that world though. 

Edited May 16 by Archie Lee

[Doohicksie]

I think the argument in favor of keeping Johnson is that the way Samuelson plays, especially the shot blocking, puts him at risk of injury.  If you trade Johnson it means you're left with only Bryson as an option, and with a second injury you're dipping down into prospects/tweeners.  Remember 2006.

[Taro T]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That would make more sense than paying Samuelsson to not play but makes no sense to me either. The whole keep them on the roster thing they did with Granato has to end. Young guys need to play and learn and work to get back. They do not need to sit around and watch. 

I can run you a comparable (since I'm familiar with them) on how the Bruins sent Lohrei down multiple times all year. Every time he started to struggle a little or someone else was healthy they didn't  send Lohrei to the press box. they sent him to Providence. On a real hockey team your NHL practice time should not be more valuable than your AHL game time (and practice).

If Johnson is good enough to beat someone out of the line up he should get that opportunity (like Lohrei over Gryzlek) but if he's not, he should be in Rochester. 

Am perfectly fine with Johnson starting the year in Ra-cha-cha if he doesn't crack the top 6, and personally have him at 7.  Pretty sure Ruff typically ran 8 D on the roster, so that's where the expectation was that Johnson will be up with the big club.  

Am also perfectly fine with them having the 9, whether it be Clague or some other tweener brought in primarily to help with the Amerks or should there be several D out, be the one in Buffalo sitting while Johnson is playing in Ra-cha-cha.  But, realistically, there are going to be D getting injured, and expect that Johnson (especially now with a season of pro hockey under his belt) will be better than Bryson.  So, he'll be in the lineup quite a bit and he'll be earning an NHL salary quite a bit.  Will be mildly surprised if he gets less than 50 games total this year because the only way that happens if if the D stay crazy healthy this year, Bryson is as good as he was 3 years ago, or Johnson regresses significantly.  None of which seem overly likely.

[Mr Peabody]

The only reason I can think of for the Middlestat trade was he and KA decided they weren’t going to resign him and KA made the best deal he could.  That said, I’d offer Byram as a trade chip if he’d bring our best return.  Would rather have a lesser offensive D man with size and tenacity or the same attributes in a forward. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Taro T said:

Am perfectly fine with Johnson starting the year in Ra-cha-cha if he doesn't crack the top 6, and personally have him at 7.  Pretty sure Ruff typically ran 8 D on the roster, so that's where the expectation was that Johnson will be up with the big club.  

Am also perfectly fine with them having the 9, whether it be Clague or some other tweener brought in primarily to help with the Amerks or should there be several D out, be the one in Buffalo sitting while Johnson is playing in Ra-cha-cha.  But, realistically, there are going to be D getting injured, and expect that Johnson (especially now with a season of pro hockey under his belt) will be better than Bryson.  So, he'll be in the lineup quite a bit and he'll be earning an NHL salary quite a bit.  Will be mildly surprised if he gets less than 50 games total this year because the only way that happens if if the D stay crazy healthy this year, Bryson is as good as he was 3 years ago, or Johnson regresses significantly.  None of which seem overly likely.

Johnson is a potential injury call up for sure. Up and down from Rochester is the way it should be and probably will be. He's in the mix. I just hope he keeps working and improving and has to earn his spot competitively. 

I doubt Ruff has 8 D up in Buffalo all year. If he had that in New Jersey I imagine it was because of the Dougie Hamilton injury and he wasn't set on who the replacement was. Also one of their D is a tough guy/fighter I think so he'd not be an every gamer either. 

[Taro T]

36 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Johnson is a potential injury call up for sure. Up and down from Rochester is the way it should be and probably will be. He's in the mix. I just hope he keeps working and improving and has to earn his spot competitively. 

I doubt Ruff has 8 D up in Buffalo all year. If he had that in New Jersey I imagine it was because of the Dougie Hamilton injury and he wasn't set on who the replacement was. Also one of their D is a tough guy/fighter I think so he'd not be an every gamer either. 

Back in the day, teams almost never had 8 D on the roster; they'd run 7 D and 14 F's.  But with limited practice time and whatnot with the most recent CBAs, it seems teams have a tendency to run with 8D and only 13Fs as it makes practices run much smoother.  (If you're running 1/2 ice drills, you always have a line and a pairing resting up ready to go next and if running full ice drills, you've got one of each ready to begin play from each end.)

Until we see them run 14-7, am going to assume it'll be 13-8.

[Believer]

Just delighted to see Savoie and Kamarov getting Memorial Cup playoff experience. You can bet Ruff and Adams will be watching in Saginaw.

[ska-T Palmtown]

On 5/15/2024 at 1:16 PM, JohnC said:

His production from a point standpoint wasn't too impressive. However, his play always seemed to be solid. I was surprised that as the season advanced this youngster's play seem to get better (as you allude to). He didn't fade at all as the season grinded on. He and UPL were my pleasant surprise players. I'm eager to see how he plays in his second year. 

This sorta baffles me ... he was nearly as productive (11-19-30 in 71 games) as Quinn (14-23-37 in 75) Peterka (12-20-32 in 77) when he was 18 while they were 20/21 and people (not everyone, I know) had trouble hiding their boners after the Quinn/Peterka rookie years ...

[Archie Lee]

23 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

This sorta baffles me ... he was nearly as productive (11-19-30 in 71 games) as Quinn (14-23-37 in 75) Peterka (12-20-32 in 77) when he was 18 while they were 20/21 and people (not everyone, I know) had trouble hiding their boners after the Quinn/Peterka rookie years ...

I won’t speak for JohnC, but maybe he is not factoring Benson’s age when he says the point total was not too impressive, but rather what the Sabres needed. Benson’s play was impressive last year, particularly when you consider his age. What the Sabres didn’t need last year was an 18 year old who posted offensive # ‘s nearly as good as what Quinn posted the year before. They needed better. That’s not Benson’s issue, of course. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

1 minute ago, Archie Lee said:

I won’t speak for JohnC, but maybe he is not factoring Benson’s age when he says the point total was not too impressive, but rather what the Sabres needed. Benson’s play was impressive last year, particularly when you consider his age. What the Sabres didn’t need last year was an 18 year old who posted offensive # ‘s nearly as good as what Quinn posted the year before. They needed better. That’s not Benson’s issue, of course. 

No notes.

[dudacek]

What Benson produced was unremarkable for a middle-six NHL forward, somewhat remarkable for an 18-year-old, and almost unheard of for an 18-year-old picked outside the top 10.

Really curious to see if he can make a Peterka-style jump, because his production was similar to Peterka's rookie year and his overall game more reliable than Peterka's rookie year.

[ska-T Palmtown]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What Benson produced was unremarkable for a middle-six NHL forward, somewhat remarkable for an 18-year-old, and almost unheard of for an 18-year-old picked outside the top 10.

Really curious to see if he can make a Peterka-style jump, because his production was similar to Peterka's rookie year and his overall game more reliable than Peterka's rookie year.

It would be amazing if Benny could throw in 25+ goals next year, but if he continues his strong play and ups his numbers even modestly (10-15 more points?), I'd still be thrilled. If he wants to put up 100 points, I won't complain either! 🤣

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, ska-T Chitown said:

This sorta baffles me ... he was nearly as productive (11-19-30 in 71 games) as Quinn (14-23-37 in 75) Peterka (12-20-32 in 77) when he was 18 while they were 20/21 and people (not everyone, I know) had trouble hiding their boners after the Quinn/Peterka rookie years ...

It's because he's short. Zach Benson will probably be better than JJP and also Quinn when this is all said and done. Most 18yr olds don't play in the NHL and most don't do what Benson did. He almost perfectly hit his projection and that was while playing on a team that had major offensive issues due to players and coaching. Kids gonna be a stud. 

[nfreeman]

On 5/15/2024 at 12:12 PM, Brawndo said:

Ryan Johnson is most likely to be the first defensive prospect traded imo 

Interesting.  I'm kinda skeptical that they'll trade any D prospects though, and that they'll trade Johnson in particular.

I doubt they will trade a D prospect because Johnson is the one who would fetch the best return, and even then I don't think the return would be sufficient.

Also, I think KA had to make a pretty compelling sale to Johnson, who was only weeks away from being a UFA.  I don't think it would look good to trade him one year later.

IMHO if they trade a prospect, it will be one of the forwards -- probably Kulich or Savoie, as those are the 2 that I'd guess will return the most value in trade.

 

23 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Johnson is a potential injury call up for sure. Up and down from Rochester is the way it should be and probably will be. He's in the mix. I just hope he keeps working and improving and has to earn his spot competitively. 

I doubt Ruff has 8 D up in Buffalo all year. If he had that in New Jersey I imagine it was because of the Dougie Hamilton injury and he wasn't set on who the replacement was. Also one of their D is a tough guy/fighter I think so he'd not be an every gamer either. 

I agree -- I think the most likely outcome is that Johnson is #8 after camp, with Bryson #7, and that Johnson spends most of the year playing in Rochester, which is what he should be doing unless there are a few injuries on D in Buffalo.