Around the NHL 2023-24 Season

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

There is a lot of data that exists from the more than half century that has passed since Wayne Cashman nearly lost his tongue. 

data on what? head injuries, is that what you mean? That's up to the players isn't it? Getting hit in the head can injure your brain, no s&&t . I don't need any "data" to know that. Nobody forces anybody into physical sports. The issue is liberties will be taken if fighting is banned and that will result in MORE head injuries and for "better" players. I doubt there's data to disprove that. 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

data on what? head injuries, is that what you mean? That's up to the players isn't it? Getting hit in the head can injure your brain, no s&&t . I don't need any "data" to know that. Nobody forces anybody into physical sports. The issue is liberties will be taken if fighting is banned and that will result in MORE head injuries and for "better" players. I doubt there's data to disprove that. 

If they want to get rid of fighting AND have the cheap stuff gone, they need to start fining stuff even if penalties are not called.  A deliberate slash to the back of the legs behind the play but caught on camera?  $1000 fine. A punch to the back of the head even with the gloves on...same thing.  If you start fining all of that, guess what, guys will get sick of paying fines and it will go away.  BUT, try to get the players association to agree to that much of an increase in fines....not going to happen.

[inkman]

25 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

If they want to get rid of fighting AND have the cheap stuff gone, they need to start fining stuff even if penalties are not called.  A deliberate slash to the back of the legs behind the play but caught on camera?  $1000 fine. A punch to the back of the head even with the gloves on...same thing.  If you start fining all of that, guess what, guys will get sick of paying fines and it will go away.  BUT, try to get the players association to agree to that much of an increase in fines....not going to happen.

Right. They exist in some non-existent place where the players police themselves (they don’t) and the officials call all the penalties (they definitely don’t). It’s easily the worst run professional sports league without peer.  

[French Collection]

Alex Nylander goes 1G 1A for the Blue Jackets and is named 2nd star. Bernier bump?

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

If they want to get rid of fighting AND have the cheap stuff gone, they need to start fining stuff even if penalties are not called.  A deliberate slash to the back of the legs behind the play but caught on camera?  $1000 fine. A punch to the back of the head even with the gloves on...same thing.  If you start fining all of that, guess what, guys will get sick of paying fines and it will go away.  BUT, try to get the players association to agree to that much of an increase in fines....not going to happen.

Yes, and the game will then suck. You need villains and heroes and cheap stuff and dealing with it is part of what makes the game fun to watch. 

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

Alex Nylander goes 1G 1A for the Blue Jackets and is named 2nd star. Bernier bump?

Just gotta be patient with the young guys, right?

 

And... cycle through 4 NHL teams and 3 AHL affiliates.

[sabresparaavida]

7 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Just gotta be patient with the young guys, right?

 

And... cycle through 4 NHL teams and 3 AHL affiliates.

With a 2 point game last night, that brings his total NHL points up to an average of 1 over the last 4 seasons.

[Archie Lee]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

data on what? head injuries, is that what you mean? That's up to the players isn't it? Getting hit in the head can injure your brain, no s&&t . I don't need any "data" to know that. Nobody forces anybody into physical sports. The issue is liberties will be taken if fighting is banned and that will result in MORE head injuries and for "better" players. I doubt there's data to disprove that. 

I’m not trying to convince you of anything, merely pointing out that an anecdote from over 50 years ago is not evidence that if you get rid of fighting the game will be dirtier or have more dangerous stick infractions. 

[LTS]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Yes, and the game will then suck. You need villains and heroes and cheap stuff and dealing with it is part of what makes the game fun to watch. 

Well, that's certainly an opinion and certainly not an uncommon one at that. Similar to people who watch football to see big hits, or boxing, or MMA, or NASCAR to see crashes. There is a certain contingent of society that loves watching people destroy each other. This has existed for far longer than professional sports, that's for certain. I think it speaks to an inherent nature of of a segment of humanity to want to destroy itself. Almost as if we regret gaining intelligence and as penance we choose to destroy that which differentiates us from other animals.

While I love hits in hockey, I don't love head injuries. I don't watch boxing or MMA and I prefer to watch a race where drivers demonstrate skill and where crashes don't happen. Albeit, I do marvel at the technological advances that have occurred with race cars to keep drivers safe in such high speed incidents.

The only villain I need is the opponent. They don't have to do anything more than try and impede me (or my team) of winning.

As for the sentiment that the game will get rougher, it's a simple solution. Change the rules, call penalties, implement fines. Stating that a league and officials won't do it does not negate the validity of the action. The penalties and fines are a deterrent when properly enforced.  There will always be some risk, that's a given.

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

With a 2 point game last night, that brings his total NHL points up to an average of 1 over the last 4 seasons.

Exactly! He's going to crush his numbers vs. expectations this year. 😇

You just have to have patience for expectations to reach zero.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Well, that's certainly an opinion and certainly not an uncommon one at that. Similar to people who watch football to see big hits, or boxing, or MMA, or NASCAR to see crashes. There is a certain contingent of society that loves watching people destroy each other. This has existed for far longer than professional sports, that's for certain. I think it speaks to an inherent nature of of a segment of humanity to want to destroy itself. Almost as if we regret gaining intelligence and as penance we choose to destroy that which differentiates us from other animals.

While I love hits in hockey, I don't love head injuries. I don't watch boxing or MMA and I prefer to watch a race where drivers demonstrate skill and where crashes don't happen. Albeit, I do marvel at the technological advances that have occurred with race cars to keep drivers safe in such high speed incidents.

The only villain I need is the opponent. They don't have to do anything more than try and impede me (or my team) of winning.

As for the sentiment that the game will get rougher, it's a simple solution. Change the rules, call penalties, implement fines. Stating that a league and officials won't do it does not negate the validity of the action. The penalties and fines are a deterrent when properly enforced.  There will always be some risk, that's a given.

I agree with you.  I don't think the game 'sucks' at all without big hits and fighting.  I have seen many, many games that are end to end, high scoring, and I absolutly love them without a hit, without any fights.

And for those that say you NEED the players to police each other, hockey is a rough sport so you NEED to allow fighting? That is just wrong. Look at the NFL. Its more physical than hockey, but yet they don't put up with the cheap shots. People still love the NFL, it is still physical. It is as popular as ever, but there aren't pushing and shoving matches multiple times every game. They aren't tons of cheap shots after the whistle. (it happens, but its rare).  There are no fights. Why? because if those players did some of the 'cheap stuff' that is allowed in the NHL, they would be fined, and fined heavily.

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, LTS said:

Well, that's certainly an opinion and certainly not an uncommon one at that. Similar to people who watch football to see big hits, or boxing, or MMA, or NASCAR to see crashes. There is a certain contingent of society that loves watching people destroy each other. This has existed for far longer than professional sports, that's for certain. I think it speaks to an inherent nature of of a segment of humanity to want to destroy itself. Almost as if we regret gaining intelligence and as penance we choose to destroy that which differentiates us from other animals.

While I love hits in hockey, I don't love head injuries. I don't watch boxing or MMA and I prefer to watch a race where drivers demonstrate skill and where crashes don't happen. Albeit, I do marvel at the technological advances that have occurred with race cars to keep drivers safe in such high speed incidents.

The only villain I need is the opponent. They don't have to do anything more than try and impede me (or my team) of winning.

As for the sentiment that the game will get rougher, it's a simple solution. Change the rules, call penalties, implement fines. Stating that a league and officials won't do it does not negate the validity of the action. The penalties and fines are a deterrent when properly enforced.  There will always be some risk, that's a given.

It's not that I want violence in hockey as you make it sound, but the game is a complete package and if you take elements out of it it changes, and I can see that pathway leading to a very dull end product. 

Boxing was the first sport I ever saw actually. My father was an amateur boxer in his youth and he watched it. So you prefer to watch cars go in a circle rather than boxing or MMA, well to each their own I guess. Enjoy it and all it's environmental destruction, but don't try to take away what others enjoy. 

[mjd1001]

5 hours ago, LTS said:

Well, that's certainly an opinion and certainly not an uncommon one at that. Similar to people who watch football to see big hits, or boxing, or MMA, or NASCAR to see crashes. There is a certain contingent of society that loves watching people destroy each other. This has existed for far longer than professional sports, that's for certain. I think it speaks to an inherent nature of of a segment of humanity to want to destroy itself. Almost as if we regret gaining intelligence and as penance we choose to destroy that which differentiates us from other animals.

I don't care for fighting at all in hockey, and your Nascar comment made me think even more about it.

For most of my life...I wanted to Watch Daytona or Talledega (Atlanta now also) to see 'the big one'.  If one of those races happened and a huge, 10+ car accident didn't happen, I was a bit disappointed from an entertainment point of view.  Now, I'm 100% the other way around. When I watch those races, when I DO see a big crash I'm disappointed because of them. I see who was involved in them and think its too bad that those drivers won't get to finish.  I see the wrecked cars and think, thats too bad I'd rather just see them race.

I'm like that with fights in hockey.  Don't need them, don't even want them.  When I see all the hype of Rempe fighting for the Rangers, I just don't see the appeal anymore of watching 'hockey' and having it interupted by a fight. I USED to, but I don't anymore.

[LTS]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's not that I want violence in hockey as you make it sound, but the game is a complete package and if you take elements out of it it changes, and I can see that pathway leading to a very dull end product. 

Boxing was the first sport I ever saw actually. My father was an amateur boxer in his youth and he watched it. So you prefer to watch cars go in a circle rather than boxing or MMA, well to each their own I guess. Enjoy it and all it's environmental destruction, but don't try to take away what others enjoy. 

The game does change that's the entire point of the conversation. You feel that the violence is needed to make a complete package that you want to watch. Unless I am reading your sentence wrong you are contradicting yourself in your first paragraph.  I don't watch NASCAR at all, in case you were referring to my preferences. I was using NASCAR as another example of the violence of sport that keep people entertained.  Boxing is a sport that causes all kinds of permanent injuries both physically and mentally. It's a popular sport, why?  Because people like watching people beat other people up.  It doesn't mean there is no talent or skill in the sport, but ultimately people watch each other beat each other up.

46 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't care for fighting at all in hockey, and your Nascar comment made me think even more about it.

For most of my life...I wanted to Watch Daytona or Talledega (Atlanta now also) to see 'the big one'.  If one of those races happened and a huge, 10+ car accident didn't happen, I was a bit disappointed from an entertainment point of view.  Now, I'm 100% the other way around. When I watch those races, when I DO see a big crash I'm disappointed because of them. I see who was involved in them and think its too bad that those drivers won't get to finish.  I see the wrecked cars and think, thats too bad I'd rather just see them race.

I'm like that with fights in hockey.  Don't need them, don't even want them.  When I see all the hype of Rempe fighting for the Rangers, I just don't see the appeal anymore of watching 'hockey' and having it interupted by a fight. I USED to, but I don't anymore.

I grew up in a very racing friendly home, especially NASCAR.  I loved racing and early on I loved the big wrecks because it was carnage.  But when you are 10 you don't necessarily have the same understanding that you have when you are 25.  As you begun to understand more about what's happening the drivers being seriously injured and even dying takes a toll on you.  Now I don't want to see the accidents and every time I do I am always amazed at how technology keeps drivers as safe as it does.  At least these days anyway.

 

[thewookie1]

When I was a child I was a huge Nascar fan; especially of my favorite driver, Dale Earnhardt. One of my favorite parts of Nascar wasn't truly the crashes but watching the pit crews and drivers try to get the car back out there again during a race. Something about seeing a car with its back spoiler and "trunk" being held on by tape to the back window. For what ever reason that was just so cool to me. However when Dale died I lost practically all interest in Nascar. 

In the end my favorite crashes were always the ones with no injuries but a cool damage that the crews need to try to fix to keep it going.

 

Edited March 1 by thewookie1

[Brawndo]

Yeah he’s playing 

 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

The game does change that's the entire point of the conversation. You feel that the violence is needed to make a complete package that you want to watch. Unless I am reading your sentence wrong you are contradicting yourself in your first paragraph.  I don't watch NASCAR at all, in case you were referring to my preferences. I was using NASCAR as another example of the violence of sport that keep people entertained.  Boxing is a sport that causes all kinds of permanent injuries both physically and mentally. It's a popular sport, why?  Because people like watching people beat other people up.  It doesn't mean there is no talent or skill in the sport, but ultimately people watch each other beat each other up.

I grew up in a very racing friendly home, especially NASCAR.  I loved racing and early on I loved the big wrecks because it was carnage.  But when you are 10 you don't necessarily have the same understanding that you have when you are 25.  As you begun to understand more about what's happening the drivers being seriously injured and even dying takes a toll on you.  Now I don't want to see the accidents and every time I do I am always amazed at how technology keeps drivers as safe as it does.  At least these days anyway.

 

It's not about "violence" but I don't really want to get into a long argument on the topic. I will just reference this, and say I agree with how these guys view it, and other former players like them. 

 

[Marvin]

Cheap shots and attempts to injure will end when it becomes disadvantageous for players to perform those acts.  Until then, intimidation via attempted beheading will be a part of the game.  Management and the players must account for this in their own ways.

[Brawndo]

 

[JustOneParade]

Tangentially related to the conversation, I was just reading an article about a game between the Sens and Flyers that took place about 20 years ago. NHL record 419 penalty minutes assessed. A couple fun facts:

Up until there was 1 minute and 45 seconds remaining in the game a total of 11 minor penalties were handed out.

One of the players involved in the first fight that kicked things off was ……

Rob Ray. Didn’t recall him playing for anyone else.

Not sure anyone thinks that’s good for the game of hockey.

[spndnchz]

You don’t recall Ray playing for the Sabres or the Sens? You got me confused. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

Just saw a Filipino rocking an Oilers jersey. Cool guy... From Phillipines but gets Sent to Edmonton for work a lot... He loves hockey, and enjoys the cold. 

I'm With him, can't do the 90 degree humid, UV scorching days. I was built for an igloo. 

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Just saw a Filipino rocking an Oilers jersey. Cool guy... From Phillipines but gets Sent to Edmonton for work a lot... He loves hockey, and enjoys the cold. 

I'm With him, can't do the 90 degree humid, UV scorching days. I was built for an igloo. 

Whatever you do, don't go to Russia to have a cold weather igloo experience. It's rumored that the gulag has many vacancies. With your medical background, the authorities can use your medical experience to service the residents residing there. It's also been widely reported that their inhouse soup is very watered down. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Whatever you do, don't go to Russia to have a cold weather igloo experience. It's rumored that the gulag has many vacancies. With your medical background, the authorities can use your medical experience to service the residents residing there. It's also been widely reported that their inhouse soup is very watered down. 

I think I'd be ok chugging Vodka with Igor and Slava in Siberia. I like cold, and there's not a lot of people there.... It's sounding quite nice 😉

[JohnC]

Just now, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I think I'd be ok chugging Vodka with Igor and Slava in Siberia. I like cold, and there's not a lot of people there.... It's sounding quite nice 😉

Putin would love to invite you to the promised land. A man of your caliber has great value. You would make a wonderful bargaining chip for him. Go for the vino in Italy and France and ogle their slinky babes . You'll also sleep better and be guaranteed to catch your flight back home.