Sabres ticket sales still pretty dismal

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't think so. People on this board are die hard fans but the public ticket buyers are less committed and it takes more to win them back. But they also have to provide more colourful marketing promoting a new era. This is why I think Kane signing helps things lot. Whether he's good or not you can use him as a marketing tool. People need to believe it's not the same old same old. 

I don't see how adding Kane is going to be a factor to increasing attendance. It might take close to a third to half a season before he finishes with his rehab. Kane is a shadow of what he once was as a player. We have young prospects who are not far from moving up to the big club who will be more of a factor in play. 

What is going to be the most influential factor in bringing fans to the arena is winning. (As many others are saying.) What will give this franchise a quick boost in attendance is starting off well and demonstrating to the fans that this is a serious team that will be a factor in the league. 

Expecting gimmicks such as marketing a hometown player who is on the downside of his career to stimulate interest is a futile and embarrassing approach to try to create interest in this team. The owner has tried this non-productive and self-defeating approach before when he hired Rex Ryan to coach the Bills. It was a disaster. When asked why he hired the bombastic Rex, the owner said he did it to make the team relevant. How did that work out?

Winning is the solution. Everything else is BS that will frustrate the fans even more and keep them home. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by JohnC

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I think the two biggest reasons ticket sales are lower are a) it's still football season and the Bills are contenders again; and 2) the Sabres, although much better last season, are still not a playoff team.  If they can play consistently at a playoff level, the fans will come back.  These two reasons have been stated multiple times above in this thread.

If the Sabres are playing well and on the right side of the playoff race after the Super Bowl in early February, they will be filling up the house most nights.  Maybe not on a random Tuesday against Calgary (or another "unexciting" opponent), but weekend games and games against rivals will be sellouts or close to it.  Even the random Tuesday games will have a decent crowd - larger than what we've been seeing in the recent past.

I believe that the Sabres will play to that level and the attendance will increase substantially.

 

Except ticket sales AREN'T lower.  They are up relative to last season and are probably close to triple what they were the 1st post-covid year.  They are probably very comparable to or perhaps a bit better than they were the last Eichel year that more than a few hundred fans were allowed in the barn at any given time.

[sabremike]

Right now we are the least successful team in the over 100 year history of the NHL with owners who squandered away more goodwill than almost any in the history of pro sports. Things are looking up but the insane levels of damage inflicted is going to take time to repair.

[Marvin]

14 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Right now we are the least successful team in the over 100 year history of the NHL with owners who squandered away more goodwill than almost any in the history of pro sports. Things are looking up but the insane levels of damage inflicted is going to take time to repair.

If true, then that is sad because we had a winning record against virtually everyone (except Edmonton and Philadelphia) in 2012.

[msw2112]

26 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Except ticket sales AREN'T lower.  They are up relative to last season and are probably close to triple what they were the 1st post-covid year.  They are probably very comparable to or perhaps a bit better than they were the last Eichel year that more than a few hundred fans were allowed in the barn at any given time.

When I said "lower," I was referring to the historical context, not comparing last season to this upcoming season.  When I grew up in Buffalo and my family had season tickets, the Aud was sold out (or damn near close to it) EVERY NIGHT.  Other than a few down seasons, the Sabres have drawn very well prior to the drought of the last decade.

And although they are currently higher than last season, they are still nowhere close (hence "lower") to where they were when the Sabres were a perennial winning/playoff team.  If the team again becomes a winning/playoff team, the ticket sales will reflect that and the building will be substantally full.

I should add the caveat that attendance is down across pro sports in general because of the advent of big screen high definition TVs, streaming, etc.  There's a lot of competition for the stadium experience, especially given the cost of tickets, parking and food & drink.

Edited September 29, 2023 by msw2112

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

When I said "lower," I was referring to the historical context, not comparing last season to this upcoming season.  When I grew up in Buffalo and my family had season tickets, the Aud was sold out (or damn near close to it) EVERY NIGHT.  Other than a few down seasons, the Sabres have drawn very well prior to the drought of the last decade.

And that hasn't been a thing since late 1979.  That sellout streak that started in '72 ended while Carter was in the White House.  And didn't come back until 2006 for a handful of years.

You haven't been in the building in October when they've hosted the Whalers on a Tuesday night or the Thrashers on a Wednesday night.  This season they're going to draw comparably to what they were doing in the 90's when the MMArena 1st opened.

[Weave]

Promo’s just bent because he can’t finance his habit like he wants on the secondary market.

I’m sure he’ll just look down his nose at the fans that aren’t buying.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Eventually this excuse will not hold up. Pretty close to there now. Then it will be cup holders and floor cracks.

I guess the inverse is that Buffalo won’t fill a hockey arena? That doesn’t hold up historically. 
 

I don’t think it’s an excuse; I think it is a reality. I don’t think Buffalo is permanently over hockey. 

https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=5054

 

[msw2112]

24 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And that hasn't been a thing since late 1979.  That sellout streak that started in '72 ended while Carter was in the White House.  And didn't come back until 2006 for a handful of years.

You haven't been in the building in October when they've hosted the Whalers on a Tuesday night or the Thrashers on a Wednesday night.  This season they're going to draw comparably to what they were doing in the 90's when the MMArena 1st opened.

You are correct that I haven't been in the building on a Tuesday or Wednesday against a lesser opponent in a very long time, although I most likely have seen the Whalers on a weeknight a long time ago.  I live out of state and usually only get to games when I visit, which is typically over a weekend.

This website (https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=5054) shows the "Buffalo Sabres Yearly Attendance Graph" and indicates that in only 12 seasons out of 51 (COVID season is excluded) has the Sabres' average attendance been below 15,000.  I have lived in other NHL markets that DO draw (Detroit) and others that do not during lean years (Chicago) or during any years (Phoenix).  Outside out the last couple of years (2021-22 was 9,998, the lowest since the Sabres' first season) Buffalo has drawn pretty well.  This compares well to NBA attendance too.  I realize that some numbers are inflated, but I've been to many pro sports venues around the country for various sports and other than recent times (and a couple of outlier seasons during their history), the Sabres have drawn well.

But to get back to my main points, if the Sabres put a playoff team on the ice, the attendance will increase substantially, particularly after football season.

EDIT:  the post above mine cited to the same link, but I did not see it until after I posted.

Edited September 29, 2023 by msw2112

[Marvin]

Early season games against comparatively uninteresting competition were always a tough sell after the early 1980s.  I think that is why the Sabres try to have west coast trips early in the season.

[SwampD]

17 minutes ago, Weave said:

Promo’s just bent because he can’t finance his habit like he wants on the secondary market.

I’m sure he’ll just look down his nose at the fans that aren’t buying.

 

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

You are correct that I haven't been in the building on a Tuesday or Wednesday against a lesser opponent in a very long time, although I most likely have seen the Whalers on a weeknight a long time ago.  I live out of state and usually only get to games when I visit, which is typically over a weekend.

This website (https://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph.php?tmi=5054) shows the "Buffalo Sabres Yearly Attendance Graph" and indicates that in only 12 seasons out of 51 (COVID season is excluded) has the Sabres' average attendance been below 15,000.  I have lived in other NHL markets that DO draw (Detroit) and others that do not during lean years (Chicago) or during any years (Phoenix).  Outside out the last couple of years (2021-22 was 9,998, the lowest since the Sabres' first season) Buffalo has drawn pretty well.  This compares well to NBA attendance too.  I realize that some numbers are inflated, but I've been to many pro sports venues around the country for various sports and other than recent times (and a couple of outlier seasons during their history), the Sabres have drawn well.

But to get back to my main points, if the Sabres put a playoff team on the ice, the attendance will increase substantially, particularly after football season.

EDIT:  the post above mine cited to the same link, but I did not see it until after I posted.

If the Sabres are playing good hockey and personally expect them to be doing so, yes, expect them to be selling out most nights down the stretch.  Just like they did in the 90's and the 00's.

They seem to have about 12k STHers.  That's pretty comparable to where they've been through long stretches of their history.  Since they've moved to the MMArena would expect typical would be 12-14k STHers.  (And yes, after the lockout, they had ST's maxed out at whatever limit they'd set.  (Can't recall if it was 16k or just below 15k.)

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Early season games against comparatively uninteresting competition were always a tough sell after the early 1980s.  I think that is why the Sabres try to have west coast trips early in the season.

That is a very interesting take.

[sabremike]

49 minutes ago, Marvin said:

If true, then that is sad because we had a winning record against virtually everyone (except Edmonton and Philadelphia) in 2012.

By worst I meant that a team has never had as bad a stretch as this 0-12 with only the first and last of those years seeing meaningful games past mid February. Before we had the 4th best all time w/l record and now I think we are middle of the pack (and one of only 3 pre 1991 teams who have never won a cup).

[Marvin]

8 minutes ago, sabremike said:

By worst I meant that a team has never had as bad a stretch as this 0-12 with only the first and last of those years seeing meaningful games past mid February. Before we had the 4th best all time w/l record and now I think we are middle of the pack (and one of only 3 pre 1991 teams who have never won a cup).

The Sabres' consistency was grossly under-rated.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Yes but:  I think they *will* win and while ticket sales may start slow, they will be quicker to grow than last year.  Also, the Bills are the hot ticket right now, distracting from the Sabres and pulling entertainment dollars from hockey.

I don't anything about the area's economy (as a factor) but they rarely compete. Football is the big ticket but it never affected hockey much back in the day. I really think all they have to do is win. 

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Worst reason ever to sign a player.

Why? It's not like we're talking an 8 year deal. Just a season or two to demonstrate that the tide has turned. You get the homeboy speaking about how great it is we become a destination not a place to avoid. Regardless of the practicalities, symbols and images do matter. 

[Scottysabres]

44 minutes ago, Weave said:

Promo’s just bent because he can’t finance his habit like he wants on the secondary market.

I’m sure he’ll just look down his nose at the fans that aren’t buying.

If this is the case....

@Promo, I do not wish to see you lose to much, so in the interest of helping you look beyond your nose without getting a neck kink, I offer to purchase 2 tickets, seats together, from you for 78.5% of the original purchase price with parking garage comp.

I believe this will help you, help me, most of all, help the Sabres.

I await the tickets 😀

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I don't see how adding Kane is going to be a factor to increasing attendance. It might take close to a third to half a season before he finishes with his rehab. Kane is a shadow of what he once was as a player. We have young prospects who are not far from moving up to the big club who will be more of a factor in play. 

What is going to be the most influential factor in bringing fans to the arena is winning. (As many others are saying.) What will give this franchise a quick boost in attendance is starting off well and demonstrating to the fans that this is a serious team that will be a factor in the league. 

Expecting gimmicks such as marketing a hometown player who is on the downside of his career to stimulate interest is a futile and embarrassing approach to try to create interest in this team. The owner has tried this non-productive and self-defeating approach before when he hired Rex Ryan to coach the Bills. It was a disaster. When asked why he hired the bombastic Rex, the owner said he did it to make the team relevant. How did that work out?

Winning is the solution. Everything else is BS that will frustrate the fans even more and keep them home. 

It'd be both, not just a gimmick. You need faces, images, things for people to get excited about and generate real media attention league wide and nationally. Yes we have young guys but they don't generate that until we start winning consistently. 

idk, disagree if you want, but I think it would work and attendance would rise substantially. Fall right off if we lose, but we assume that wouldn't happen. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

Promo’s just bent because he can’t finance his habit like he wants on the secondary market.

I’m sure he’ll just look down his nose at the fans that aren’t buying.

After all these years you don't know me very well. If all I was worried about was losing money why would I have stayed a STH through the 12 year crapfest? 

My worry isn't selling my tickets, it's about ensuring the Sabres stay in Buffalo. I get the sense that several of you take great pleasure in seeing this team do poorly at the box office, but how would you feel if the Sabres left town? Won't happen, you say? I never take anything for granted with local teams. This franchise is too valuable elsewhere. And if we can't be bothered to buy NHL tickets for $33, who will shed a tear over the Houston or Atlanta Sabres?

 

[Brawndo]

Directly from one of the Lawyers who worked on the sale. There is a non movement clause for the team in the agreement. Both OSP and the NHL stipulated it. 
 

The team is not going anywhere.

 

[inkman]

The Buffalo Sabres will be fine 

[phil_soisson]

It could be more a sign of the economic times, what with food price inflation, energy cost inflation, tuition costs, rental and house price inflation, and prohibitively high interest rates. Discretionary income available for leisure and entertainment is near the bottom when it comes to a household economic hierarchy of needs. Sure, the Bills can sell out, but that's only eight dates in a year.

[JohnC]

13 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It'd be both, not just a gimmick. You need faces, images, things for people to get excited about and generate real media attention league wide and nationally. Yes we have young guys but they don't generate that until we start winning consistently. 

idk, disagree if you want, but I think it would work and attendance would rise substantially. Fall right off if we lose, but we assume that wouldn't happen. 

Kane has been in the league for a long time. Without question, he has been a marquee player for a long time. He's simply not that caliber of player any longer. I'm not dismissing him as a player or having a contributing role for certain teams. However, I doubt it will be here. 

The best way to increase attendance is to start off well. It isn't a surprise to people in the hockey business why the Sabres will be one of the most showcased teams on national TV on this season. The increase in interest happened in our arena at the end of last season. I'm confident that same momentum will carry over this year. If you are looking for players to help the cause. I recommend that you look inside the organization instead of outside of it. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Directly from one of the Lawyers who worked on the sale. There is a non movement clause for the team in the agreement. Both OSP and the NHL stipulated it. 
 

The team is not going anywhere.

 

 

I'll never believe such a clause could be enforced in perpetuity. The league would never allow it 

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I'll never believe such a clause could be enforced in perpetuity. The league would never allow it 

When Golisano sold the team to Pegula he noted in the news conference that the no-move clause existed. It certainly applies while Pegula is the owner. If Terry P. sells the team (don't see that happening any time soon) that is another matter. The issue here is not what the league will allow or not; the issue is what does the contract stipulation state. The matter revolves around the contract and law. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by JohnC