What have we learned from training camp so far?

[GASabresIUFAN]

I watched about 2/3 of the pre-season games as well as DG’s post game interviews and have come  away with the following thoughts

1.  Benson’s skill level is off the charts.  Benson’s body isn’t NHL ready, but come next year he’ll be a Sabre. A 9 game tryout could be in the works.

2.  Goaltending - Levi is ready.  Comrie was impressive against the NHL Pens, while UPL wasn’t in his start so far.  

3.  DG really likes Biro and Ryan Johnson.  Could Biro steal last forward slot on the Sabres?  Johnson is starting in Roch, but he could easily pass Bryson and Clague on the depth chart.

4. Mitts is going to be the 3C when the season starts.  DG has played him exclusively at C so far.  This relegates Krebs to the 4 and Jost to the press box.  This implies at Rousek and Biro are fighting for a top 9 job.  Maybe both lose and Benson or Kulich win the slot.  

5.  Tuch, Clifton and EJ haven’t played yet. Not sure why.  

6.  I’ve also liked what I’ve seen from Rosen, Kozak, Cederqvist and Novikov.  

Did I miss anything?

Edited September 29, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[steveoath]

That about sums it up. Disappointing we couldn’t get a better gt in to tandem with Levi 

[SABRES 0311]

The forward prospects seem to favor a fast paced style of play. They are north/south minded and already aren’t afraid to carry the puck.

I would like to see how Benson does on the top line with TT. Maybe move Tuch with Cozens and Mitts. All I know is my eye test shows we have options.

 

[triumph_communes]

Mittelstadt isn’t getting bullied off the puck anymore

Comrie is the best bet in backup

Levi is real. Benson is real

Power is going to sophomore slump. Be ready.

We are going to have a lot of roster battles everywhere. I don’t see how Bryson ever plays again. Nobody is going to be gifted anything except Okposo and Girgensons. 

Edited September 29, 2023 by triumph_communes

[Buffalonill]

42 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Mittelstadt isn’t getting bullied off the puck anymore

Comrie is the best bet in backup

Levi is real. Benson is real

Power is going to sophomore slump. Be ready.

We are going to have a lot of roster battles everywhere. I don’t see how Bryson ever plays again. Nobody is going to be gifted anything except Okposo and Girgensons. 

 

[Rasmus_]

43 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Mittelstadt isn’t getting bullied off the puck anymore

Comrie is the best bet in backup

Levi is real. Benson is real

Power is going to sophomore slump. Be ready.

We are going to have a lot of roster battles everywhere. I don’t see how Bryson ever plays again. Nobody is going to be gifted anything except Okposo and Girgensons. 

Meh on the Power point.  I think he starts off sluggish then simmers.  He is definitely not going to have issues producing. I see a major need to question the back up situation.  Neither UPL or Comrie look quality enough to be trusted.  Id rather have Anderson had he not retired over these two wastes of contract space. 

[bob_sauve28]

We have a lot more defensive depth than we imagined. Our 7-12 defense played pretty well against the regular Pens forwards. That’s impressive. 

[SabresBaltimore]

6 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

We have a lot more defensive depth than we imagined. Our 7-12 defense played pretty well against the regular Pens forwards. That’s impressive. 

 

It's still pre-season, so the Penguins starters are probably knocking the rust off. That said when I saw the line-up, I figured they were going to score 2-3 each period. The fact that we held them to 2, was pretty surprising. Johnson continues to look good. The rest (apart from Bryson) look to have some protentional. Not sure sure if any of them will be NHL regulars beyond Johnson though. But still better than expected

 

In general though I give Comrie a lot of credit for keeping it close. The Penguins got several breakaway opportunities, including one by Crosby and Comrie shut them down. A major contrast to what UPL did against a much weaker Toronto team the night before when put in similar situations.

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Rasmus_ said:

Meh on the Power point.  I think he starts off sluggish then simmers.  He is definitely not going to have issues producing. I see a major need to question the back up situation.  Neither UPL or Comrie look quality enough to be trusted.  Id rather have Anderson had he not retired over these two wastes of contract space. 

Small sample size but the 2 games Comrie started this preseason he hasn’t been bad. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I did miss two things that need to be resolved in the 2nd half of camp.

7.  Without EJ and Clifton playing, we still don’t really have a clue what the D pairings will look like.  I didn’t like seeing Joki and Power back together.  

8.  Besides the battle for the open winger slot in the top 9, DG really hasn’t given much of a hint about where the established wingers will play except Skinner stapled to Thompson.  

Edited September 29, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[mjd1001]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I watched about 2/3 of the pre-season games as well as DG’s post game interviews and have come  away with the following thoughts

1.  Benson’s skill level is off the charts.  Benson’s body isn’t NHL ready, but come next year he’ll be a Sabre. A 9 game tryout could be in the works.

2.  Goaltending - Levi is ready.  Comrie was impressive against the NHL Pens, while UPL wasn’t in his start so far.  

3.  DG really likes Biro and Ryan Johnson.  Could Biro steal last forward slot on the Sabres?  Johnson is starting in Roch, but he could easily pass Bryson and Clague on the depth chart.

4. Mitts is going to be the 3C when the season starts.  DG has played him exclusively at C so far.  This relegates Krebs to the 4 and Jost to the press box.  This implies at Rousek and Biro are fighting for a top 9 job.  Maybe both lose and Benson or Kulich win the slot.  

5.  Tuch, Clifton and EJ haven’t played yet. Not sure why.  

6.  I’ve also liked what I’ve seen from Rosen, Kozak, Cederqvist and Novikov.  

Did I miss anything?

Nothing this camp/preseason has changed my mind on goaltending.

Don't go get a high priced guy or even another mid-priced vet that may require more than 1 year (if you get a low-to-mid priced guy willing to take a 1 year deal he likely won't be much better than what you have).  That money can be used/saved for elsewhere.  You have 3 goalies on this roster that can make the team.  Let them fight it out in camp, preseason, and practice and you take the 2 that emerge as the best 2.

 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I watched about 2/3 of the pre-season games as well as DG’s post game interviews and have come  away with the following thoughts

1.  Benson’s skill level is off the charts.  Benson’s body isn’t NHL ready, but come next year he’ll be a Sabre. A 9 game tryout could be in the works.

2.  Goaltending - Levi is ready.  Comrie was impressive against the NHL Pens, while UPL wasn’t in his start so far.  

3.  DG really likes Biro and Ryan Johnson.  Could Biro steal last forward slot on the Sabres?  Johnson is starting in Roch, but he could easily pass Bryson and Clague on the depth chart.

4. Mitts is going to be the 3C when the season starts.  DG has played him exclusively at C so far.  This relegates Krebs to the 4 and Jost to the press box.  This implies at Rousek and Biro are fighting for a top 9 job.  Maybe both lose and Benson or Kulich win the slot.  

5.  Tuch, Clifton and EJ haven’t played yet. Not sure why.  

6.  I’ve also liked what I’ve seen from Rosen, Kozak, Cederqvist and Novikov.  

Did I miss anything?

Good observations and fair representations of the preseason so far. As you noted, Benson has not only exhibited a lot of skill, but he also has demonstrated a makeup that indicates that he is not overwhelmed and belongs. That's the trait that has impressed me the most. 

And as you also noted, Ryan Johnson is very impressive. He's a very mature player. His style of game is predicated on substance over flash. His efficiency masks how good he is. He will be called up this season. 

I thought Comrie looked good last night. However, don't assume that the UPL/Comrie duel is over yet. Right now, I would lean towards Comrie but KA acts like he has an investment in UPL. Competition is good. 

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, SabresBaltimore said:

 

It's still pre-season, so the Penguins starters are probably knocking the rust off. That said when I saw the line-up, I figured they were going to score 2-3 each period. The fact that we held them to 2, was pretty surprising. Johnson continues to look good. The rest (apart from Bryson) look to have some protentional. Not sure sure if any of them will be NHL regulars beyond Johnson though. But still better than expected

 

Sure, I wouldn't want to play a seven game series with those de-men, but nice to know if we go down a few defenseman we have competent fill ins.

[Night Train]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

Small sample size but the 2 games Comrie started this preseason he hasn’t been bad. 

Agreed. I also was surprised to see/hear Craig Anderson was hanging around here for a few days. His family house in in South Florida. Wonder if they asked him about 1 more year just in case they don't like what they see beyond Levi. Naturally, that's just me speculating so refrain from the feigned reactions. Might be some vets elsewhere getting bumped as camp closes. Just watching. Yet I do feel the team needs to move on from UPL. He's never been right since the surgeries. 

[LGR4GM]

I have learned the following this preseason... 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Good observations and fair representations of the preseason so far. As you noted, Benson has not only exhibited a lot of skill, but he also has demonstrated a makeup that indicates that he is not overwhelmed and belongs. That's the trait that has impressed me the most. 

And as you also noted, Ryan Johnson is very impressive. He's a very mature player. His style of game is predicated on substance over flash. His efficiency masks how good he is. He will be called up this season. 

I thought Comrie looked good last night. However, don't assume that the UPL/Comrie duel is over yet. Right now, I would lean towards Comrie but KA acts like he has an investment in UPL. Competition is good. 

Despite the dinner-with-the-boss thing, I think Kev is shopping Ukka.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

7 hours ago, steveoath said:

That about sums it up. Disappointing we couldn’t get a better gt in to tandem with Levi 

I think / hope that Comrie will be fine in that role.  UPL is going to be in Rochester or traded.  The other kid who's name starts with C looked good in his 1 period of action.  He is likely to be in Rochester and I'd call him up ahead of UPL.

[dudacek]

Good OP @GASabresIUFAN

I think Ryan Johnson and Zach Benson are the camp revelations: both more skilled and closer to NHL-ready than the board generally thought.

Johnson is kinda where Mule was in his 1st pro season. He’s got NHL skills and a mature game and he is eventually going to make Clague and Bryson redundant. He’s going to get called up at some point and never go back down.

Benson’s got a ridiculous amount of game. His ability to process and execute with and against good NHL players is shocking to me. You watch guys like Reinhart and Quinn at that age, and they look like that against their peers, but needed time to adjust to make those kind of plays at the NHL pace. Benson can already.

I agree with those who say he logically shouldn’t be ready and should be allowed to cook. It’s just that he seems so obviously ahead of Rousek and Kulich and Olofsson the others battling for the Quinn slot it’s hard to justify giving one of them that spot ahead of him. Guess we’ll see how he can sustain this over the next two weeks.

Rosen and Kulich look skilled and ready to be first-line AHLers. They’re right where I’d expect them to be. I suspect Savoie is about there too after prospects camp and am disappointed we haven’t had a chance to see it.

I’ve been disappointed in Rousek. I think Biro has the edge in the battle for the 13th forward spot if the Sabres choose to elevate a veteran instead of a kid.

The idea that we could roll Mitts/Tuch, Tage/Skinner Cozens/Peterka is very intriguing to me from a tactical standpoint. Not sure if we’ve got enough good wingers to sustain that without Quinn. Which makes keeping Benson up even more intriguing.

And I love the edge Stillman has played with. It’s something we need. I think he’s outplayed Bryson and Clague and am feeling more comfortable with him as the #7. The bigger, still unanswered question is whether Erik Johnson and Connor Clifton are what was missing from the top 6.

I’ve also started to drink the Kevyn Adams Koolaid on the goaltending front. Not really because of camp, but camp hasn’t changed my mind. I don’t have a ton of faith in UPL, or Comrie, but also think the guy they keep will be adequate for the 30 games he plays - on a tier with the many adequate backups that populate the NHL. My comfort level is based on my faith the Levi will be a good enough #1 that over 82 games we’ll be fine.

Edited September 29, 2023 by dudacek

[...]

3 hours ago, inkman said:

Small sample size but the 2 games Comrie started this preseason he hasn’t been bad. 

I have the same impression. I thought Cooley looked pretty good backing up Levi. Between those three, not to mention some of the guys in the prospects games, I think it's a waste to spend any more time trying to build up UPL.

[...]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Despite the dinner-with-the-boss thing, I think Kev is shopping Ukka.

Didn't the PBP guys for Pittsburgh last night mention that Comrie might have been on display for Tampa?

I would love it if we could dupe the Bolts into taking UPL.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2023/09/28/lightning-goalie-vasilevskiy-is-expected-to-miss-the-first-2-months-of-the-season-after-back-surgery/70994120007/

Edited September 29, 2023 by ...
your slip is showing

[Buffalonill]

I'll wait till they Actually play a real game before I complain.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Buffalonill

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

I'll wait till they Actually play a real game before I complain.

 

That would be a first. 😉

[GASabresIUFAN]

I got the impression from one of the interviews that DG has 30 players in mind from which he is going to construct the 23 man roster.  In fact, he discussed cutting down from 65 to 30 before he’ll fully implement wants he wants the team to do this season.

Here is the who I think the 30 are so far

F - Definite Sabres (11)  - Skinner, Tnt, Tuch, Cozens, Mitts, JJP, Greenway, Krebs, KO, Z and Jost 

      Probably a Sabres (1) - VO

      Fighting for a roster spot (4) - Kulich, Rousek, Biro, and Benson.

D - Definite Sabres (7) - Dahlin, Power, Mule, Joki, Clifton, EJ and Stillman

      Fighting for a roster spot (3) - Bryson, Clague and Johnson

G - Definite Sabres (1) - Levi

      Fighting for a roster spot (3) - UPL, Comrie and Tokarski

Wild Card - will they keep Savoie up to give KA and the coaching staff some time to get a decent look at him once healthy?

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Good OP @GASabresIUFAN

I think Ryan Johnson and Zach Benson are the camp revelations: both more skilled and closer to NHL-ready than the board generally thought.

Johnson is kinda where Mule was in his 1st pro season. He’s got NHL skills and a mature game and he is eventually going to make Clague and Bryson redundant. He’s going to get called up at some point and never go back down.

Benson’s got a ridiculous amount of game. His ability to process and execute with and against good NHL players is shocking to me. You watch guys like Reinhart and Quinn at that age, and they look like that against their peers, but needed time to adjust to make those kind of plays at the NHL pace. Benson can already.

I agree with those who say he logically shouldn’t be ready and should be allowed to cook. It’s just that he seems so obviously ahead of Rousek and Kulich and Olofsson the others battling for the Quinn slot it’s hard to justify giving one of them that spot ahead of him. Guess we’ll see how he can sustain this over the next two weeks.

Rosen and Kulich look skilled and ready to be first-line AHLers. They’re right where I’d expect them to be. I suspect Savoie is about there too after prospects camp and am disappointed we haven’t had a chance to see it.

I’ve been disappointed in Rousek. I think Biro has the edge in the battle for the 13th forward spot if the Sabres choose to elevate a veteran instead of a kid.

The idea that we could roll Mitts/Tuch, Tage/Skinner Cozens/Peterka is very intriguing to me from a tactical standpoint. Not sure if we’ve got enough good wingers to sustain that without Quinn. Which makes keeping Benson up even more intriguing.

And I love the edge Stillman has played with. It’s something we need. I think he’s outplayed Bryson and Clague and am feeling more comfortable with him as the #7. The bigger, still unanswered question is whether Erik Johnson and Connor Clifton are what was missing from the top 6.

I’ve also started to drink the Kevyn Adams Koolaid on the goaltending front. Not really because of camp, but camp hasn’t changed my mind. I don’t have a ton of faith in UPL, or Comrie, but also think the guy they keep will be adequate for the 30 games he plays - on a tier with the many adequate backups that populate the NHL. My comfort level is based on my faith the Levi will be a good enough #1 that over 82 games we’ll be fine.

Really wonder if Rousek isn't gripping the stick too tight knowing the opportunity that's been laid out before him.  When you're lightly pencilled into a role, it's yours to lose but it's very losable.  It's way easier to play YOUR game when you're trying to steal a job from somebody.  Your good plays will get you the opportunity.  When you're protecting the job, it's your mistakes that are going to cost you.

Could see Rousek miss out on this chance, work hard in Ra-cha-cha and get another crack at it when injuries strike and then look like he did in his 2 games last year.

Stillman is looking like the guy Adams and Granato thought they were getting last year.  He's not going to be a top 4 fixture but he's good enough to be the 6 which makes him an excellent 7.  The big Q IMHO is has Clague played well enough to earn the 8 over Bryson?  IMHO he has, but due to the way they've liked Bryson in the past could see him getting the benefit of the doubt on that.  Either way, when they need to use the 8th D-man am fully expecting R. Johnson to get the game action.  Will be interesting to see if Metsa can climb past Clague and Bryson too.

Comrie has been playing like I've expected.  He's not giving up killer goals (though especially how ice level shots are his specialty would really like to have seen him stop that 2nd goal even though it was a really tough save with the open man on the back door that was seemingly the bigger threat) but he's giving up enough that they really are going to want to keep him at 30 games tops (should he win the competition to be the backup).  Unfortunately, in his 1st preseason game, UPL played as expected too.

And found it interesting that with limited vets playing in any given game that Cozens, Mersch (Amerks C), Thompson, and Mittelstadt have all gotten chances to wear an A this preseason.  Gives a glimpse into what management thinks of their leadership traits.

[RochesterExpat]

What we've learned from camp and the offseason is the Sabres like to gamble.

The biggest complaint I have with the roster is that we're asking Devon Levi to win the Calder. He's the clear starter at this point. He's going to need to play 55 or more games--more than he has ever played in a season--and play each game as the well-above-average goalie he is believed to be. That's a tall order for any goalie, much less a rookie.

These are the only goalies to even play in 40 or more NHL games before their age 22 season since 2005:

- Steve Mason: Played 61 games his age 20 season, 58 games his age 21 season. Worth mentioning  he was only called up because of injury. He just kept the job. Even CBJ didn't intend to start him in the NHL at age 20.

- Carey Price: 20 NHL (20 AHL) games his age 20 season, 52 games his age 21 season

- Carter Hart: 31 NHL (18 AHL) games his age 20 season, 43 games his age 21 season

- Spencer Knight: 4 NHL / 21 college games his age 19 season, 32 NHL + 11 AHL games his age 20 season, 21 NHL and 2 AHL games his age 21 season.

- MAF: 21 NHL games at age 19. None age 20 (54 AHL but also a lockout). 50 NHL and 12 AHL games age 21.

- Vasilevski: 25 AHL, 16 NHL at age 20. 12 AHL, 24 NHL at age 21.

The only goalies to play 50+ games in an age 21 or earlier season are MAF, Steve Mason and Carey Price--and all those happened before Levi was 8 years old. Most recently Carter Hart played 43 in his 21 year old season, but he at least played 31 games in the NHL the year prior. Levi played 7 NHL games last season (plus 34 college).

Levi is forced into the role of starting goalie. This isn't a 1A/1B situation. This is a clear starter and backup situation. If we define a starter/backup as 50+ games, we're looking at a total of only 16 goalies in the NHL last season and 17 the year prior. Of 32 teams in the league, only half had a goalie starting 50 or more games.

If we look at goalies playing the more realistic 55+ games, it's now 12 in 22-23 and 12 in 21-22. 

Worse still, there's going to be ~27 games where the backup isn't clear--and, unfortunately, t's not clear for positive reasons.

Comrie played 11 games before injured. In those 11 games, Comrie went 4-7-0 and had a .887 SV% and a 3.45 GAA--he also had the worst GSAx in the league at one point. Across all 19 games of the season, he had a .886 SV% and a 3.67 GAA. Comrie had two great games on the road trip and then his game fell off and he was injured. It's possible he was simply tired and not ready for a starting workload.

When he returned from injury, he was actually the second best goalie from January on for Buffalo--second only in GSAx to Devon Levi. I was honestly surprised when I learned that. He posted a 5-2-1 record.

What's even crazier is that he managed to be the second best goalie in Buffalo with regards GSAx despite giving up 10 goals in one game on 49 shots to Dallas. Sweet baby Jesus. Without the Dallas game, he had a .905 SV% and a 2.85 GAA when he returned from injury. If we add the Dallas game in, he had a 3.75 GAA and a .884 SV%.

UPL was the rookie of the month in January after going 6-2-1 with a 3.05GAA and a .907 SV%. He went 6-2-0 in December with a 3.12 GAA and .908 SV%. 

In November he was 1-1-1 with a 4.33 GAA and an .845 SV%.

Then February he was 2-3-0 with a 4.2 GAA and an .858 SV% including getting pulled in a game against Toronto 12:09 into the game after giving up 4 on 10 shots.

March was a 3.96 GAA (when adjusting for coming in to relieve Craig Anderson in a game) and a .879 SV%. He was 1-3-2 in the month.

And he played one game in April with a .929 SV% and 3 goals against to go 1-0-0.

I realize it's the complaint shared by most here and I'm just restating the obvious but it still needs to be said. It's not doubting that Levi isn't a future NHL goalie. It's just the question of whether we're wasting a year of the "window" on what would normally be the first (of typically many) growth/development season for a young goalie.

We are gambling that an untested 21 year old goalie can do something that's essentially unheard of in today's NHL and would justifiably earn him the Calder Trophy.

Lets break down the best case scenario: Levi can handle a starting load and Eric Comrie is a good goalie, but can only handle a load typical for a backup. UPL is inconsistent and is waived because blowing a roster spot on three goalies is brutal.

Eric Comrie is probably the best backup goalie we have, but after he returned from injury last season, he only played in 8 of 37 games. And, absent one absolutely atrocious game from both him and the entire team, he was at least consistent in net. But playing in 8 of 37 over an 82 game season means he gets 18 starts. Do we expect Levi to start 64 games? That's how Winnipeg used him. Winnipeg also had Demko as a starter and not a 21 year old rookie.

We don't have a backup plan because our best backup is Eric Comrie--who might honestly be absolutely fine as a backup goalie--who isn't a starting goalie. If he doesn't work, we are forced to run with an inconsistent UPL. The same goalie who dropped some important games last season at a time when we needed them most--games that were important because of a stretch in November where Comrie dropped a bunch of games.

In short, this team makes the playoffs if Levi wins the Calder. If Levi doesn't win the Calder, it's going to be another lost season.

No pressure kid.