Some troubling comments attributed to Terry Pegula (and denied by Pegula) and Jerry Jones from SI Writer Jim Trotter’s Lawsuit against the NFL

[darksabre]

28 minutes ago, SwampD said:

It's like an eclipse just ended.

I'll say it again, back when this was all going down, it was reported that TP came away from those meetings looking very bad. I think it's funny that now that we might know why, some are saying it didn't even happen.

I believe he said something stupid. It may not have been what Trotter said he said, in fact, I don't believe it was, but at this point, I wouldn't be surprised by anything.

And I'll guarantee that we will never find out what was actually said.

😆 

I think it's also worth mentioning, for those who are worried about Jerry's and Terry's feelings getting hurt, that the league answers to the owners, not vice versa. It's a trade association that exists to funnel revenue to the teams. And the owners are at the top. They control everything. They dictate league policy. If racial issues are being covered up, they're the ones signing off on that.

Filing a suit against the league for how it handles discrimination and race issues is a big lift. How motivated do you think the owners, and by default the league, are going to be to get this thing resolved, if they aren't getting called out by name? If Jerry Jones isn't getting thumped in the media, this drags on quietly and forever. That doesn't give the plaintiff much leverage.

Put them on blast? Now you have everyone's undivided attention. 

Will it work? Who knows. But they have no reason not to pull that lever as far as I can tell. Full send. 

[qwksndmonster]

5 hours ago, Curt said:

 

@qwksndmonster, I thought it was a pretty clear line of thought.

It was really a jest though.  I have no idea if you deserve to be sued or not.

Curt do I know you?

[RochesterExpat]

I read the full complaint--all 53 pages 🤮--and it's worth the read if you care about this. This is what happens when you spend 6 hours at your desk waiting for data science to deliver code to you. Still waiting...

Full disclosure on my personal bias so you have context for my commentary: First, I don't watch football anymore and I was never really a fan of the Bills (lets just say I'm happy that the Rooney family is called out in the complaint in a positive light for bringing change). Next, I believe at least some of the league owners are probably on some level, whether they realize it or not, racially biased. Hate to say the obvious, but it's a bunch of old white dudes AND WOMEN (my bad, fixed in edit) from a different generation and the socially acceptable standards for speech and behavior change with time (thankfully).

After reading the full complaint (granted, it's one side of the argument): I believe Mr. Trotter was not offered a new contract due to the questions he was asking the commissioner and league owners and his, frankly, antagonistic and seemingly hostile attitude toward his employer. I don't think he comes across as a "team player" or anyone I would ever like to work with. I don't believe he was racially discriminated against and I don't believe that was a consideration on his contract renewal.

Disclaimer: These are my opinions. This is not legal advice. If either the NFL or Mr. Trotter are seeking legal advice from the SabreSpace forum, they've already lost.

Things unrelated to the topic of this forum:

1. He's demanding a jury trial. That's interesting. Too lazy to search demographics for the original jurisdiction, but I'm guessing that's the play there.

2. His own account of events honestly makes him appear antagonistic toward his employer

• obviously this is subjective, but that's my personal interpretation. I also understand it's probably meant to read that way to portray him--rightfully or not--as a champion of civil rights. Just a peanut gallery comment.

3. He argues: 8 of 32 teams have black general managers, 3 of 32 teams have black head coaches, 1 in 6 EVP and above are black. 

• That's 25%,  9.4% and 16.7% black representation. Compared to overall US population of 13.6% black. Kind of makes the point moot from a stats perspective.
• "60-70% of the players are Black. Clearly the NFL's lack of diverse leadership led to a league and organization where Black people are not being given equal opportunities to obtain and/or advance to positions with meaningful authority" is a pretty terrible statement. It implies wide receivers are promoted to general managers, coaches or EVPs and ignores the entirely different skill sets.
• Honestly it's only really relevant if the 60-70% number is a reflection of general interest in football, wherein 60-70% of NFL fans are black, which is untrue.

4. He argues: "in the NFL Media newsroom, there are no black managers, no Black copy editors, and no Black full-time employees on the news desk."

• really NFL?
• I guess it depends on the overall number of jobs. If it's one manager, one copy editor and four employees on the news desk, it's hard to argue underrepresentation. In a vacuum this fact is pretty disturbing. I also don't know what the black representation is in the news media as a whole, but I suspect it's underrepresented in the industry anyway.
• This is probably the strongest point in this section.

5. Unsubstantiated accusation against the league that weakens his point:

"The NFL has consistently acquiesced to and participated in outright discrimination and continues to refuse to take remedial action to solve this obvious problem."

• If this is true (and it's "consistent" and "obvious") he should have been able to point to specific examples in this part of the complaint as he does above. He doesn't. The lawyer dropped the ball here. I realize it's meant to be attention grabbing, but statements like this can prejudice a judge.

6. Claims and Relief section:

• He is asking for remedies available under law (normal)
• He seeks "equitable relief to force the NFL to remedy and change its discriminatory and retaliatory practices and comply with the law" which would be implemented via a "court-ordered monitor to review the NFL's policies and/or practices and implement necessary changes with respect to hiring, retention and advancement of Black people throughout all levels of the NFL organization and hierarchy." He also wants a "full-scale investigation" in to the "discriminatory and/or retaliatory animus of all persons in positions of power within the NFL, including NFL team owners"
• Yeah, the first is a reasonable ask. The latter... not happening. 

7. Admin/Jurisdiction/Parties sections

• Same ***** different complaint

8. Points/Comments from factual allegations:

• The league was biased against black players in the 1930s and specifically says George Preston Marshall may have been personally biased.
  - this kind of broadly generalizes and era where this was unfortunatel normal (***** League) and Mr. Marshall died in 1969 so...
• Makes arguments that it took too long for the first black head coach, manager, etc.
  - valid points, but this is still 20+ years ago
• Argues that because it's the same owners who were biased then which, apart from Virginia McCaskey, is arguably untrue. The children of the owners aren't the same as the original owners themselves.
• Keeps saying the league profited off of Black people which is certainly an attempt to allude to slavery. Kind of a risky play depending on the judge
• Brings up the Colin Kaepernick situation and references former President Trump
  - The league never admitted racial bias over this. Mr. Trotter's own statements point to the fact Colin Kaepernick was sidelined for political speech which the courts have long held is not protected speech in the context of employment. It's also a public fact that Kaepernick's actions cost the league financially, so it's not a surprise he was blackballed. It's still a business. You don't intentionally hurt your business.
• Jon Gruden emails
  - Points to John Gruden's now public emails as evidence of pervasive racism, sexism, etc. 
  - Ignores the fact Gruden was fired (should mention he was brought back for a workout)
  - Ignores that the emails were only between two people and it's entirely within the realm of possibility that no one else knew their privately held opinions
• "Race-Norming in the NFL's Concussion Settlement" -- Put another way, the NFL not only insisted that white people simply have better cognitive function than Black people, but the league also did this in a context that would lead to reduced recovery for Black players relative to white players. The NFL’s assumption that someone is not as cognitively advanced as another person because of the color of his skin is the very definition of racism and is abhorrent.
  - Not touching this with a 10 foot pole except to say "there's more to it." Here is an article from WaPo if you're interested.
  - This is the strongest argument (in my opinion) of the league's bias, but the settlement agreement which allowed it was agreed to by the players so...
  - Also the NFL did cease doing this so they responded to it. For whatever that's worth.
• Alleges the NFL pandered to minorities following "widespread societal racial protests"
  - Quotes Goodell, "we were wrong" and later covers Goodell's past comments about Kaepernick. I guess people can't admit they were wrong?
  - His whole point kind of goes against the rest of his complaint, frankly, since it implies when the NFL takes the action he wants, it's just pandering.
  - This is really weak across the board
• Alleges the NFL attempted to pander to minorities after the Brian Flores' lawsuit
  - Points out the NFL responded to the suit by stating it was without merit.  That's standard practice.
  - Complains that the cases were sent to arbitration by a judge and suggests it's further evidence against the league. Also pretty standard practice.
  - Should add the lawsuit isn't even settled/heard yet.
  - Actually provides examples of the NFL taking action to change (mentions the Coach and Front Office Accelerator Program). Works against him again.
• NFL Owners Have Engaged in Numerous Instance of Bigotry
  - Mentions a 1957 photograph with Jerry Jones "a youth at the time" protesting desegregation and criticizes Jones' response once it became public
  - Mentions the owner of the Jets was subjected to an investigation by the State Department over reports he made Black staff members uncomfortable when he was a US ambassador. It's worth noting this is true and the State Department investigated, but ultimately concluded the allegations were "unsubstantiated"
• As another example, in 2017, at an NFL owner’s meeting, Bob McNair, then-owner of the Houston Texans, stated of Mr. Kaepernick and others’ racial injustice protests, “We can’t have the inmates running the prison.” Of course, referring to players, the majority of which are Black, as “inmates” has obvious racial meaning. Mr. McNair apologized, but later retracted his apology stating, “I didn’t really have anything to apologize for.”
  - Yikes. First that we are automatically associating black people with criminals. Second because the owners think they have that much control. Reality is, in context, McNair meant something akin to "you don't have students running the school." I'm available for PR contracting if Mr. McNair is interested.
• NFL Has Barriers of Entry for Black Leaders
  - Once again mentions zero black owners. For this to be relevant whatsoever, someone needs to prove a minority owner tried to buy a team and was denied for racial reasons. Is it unfortunate the league is white? Yes. Is it more likely a due to wealth distribution and not racial discrimination in the NFL? Also, yes.
  - Once again doesn't understand how stats work
  - Once again implies playing wide receiver has the same skill set as a GM and there's some kind of promotion track from one to the other
  - Criticizes the "Rooney Rule" for leading to sham interviews which is fair, but ignores the reason the rule was adopted because it helps the NFL's case
  - Mentions the Flores suit again even though that hasn't been settled or gone to court yet so it's not a big strength per se
• Jim Trotter's Impecable (sic) Resume as a Journalist
  - It's his CV and, like most CVs, has a spelling mistake.
  - Unsurprisingly, he has a genuinely impressive CV. 
   

9. Section on his time at the NFL:

• The NFL Team Owners, the NFL and NFL Media are a Single Enterprise
  - this part breaks down the relationship between the different entities
• Mr. Trotter's Employment at the NFL
  - Mr. Trotter also asked Mr. Sperry, the head of the news desk, to confirm his understanding that there was not a single full-time Black employee working on the news desk. Mr. Sperry confirmed in writing that Mr. Trotter’s understanding was correct, though also expressed concern regarding Mr. Trotter’s inquiry and implored Mr. Trotter not to speak publicly regarding this lack of diversity.
  - Thankfully, Mr. Marvel—Mr. Trotter’s manager when he started at the NFL—was a champion of Mr. Trotter and his unwillingness to accept the status quo. However, Mr. Marvel also let Mr. Trotter know that not everyone in the NFL was as accepting of diverse opinions that were critical of the NFL’s record on race discrimination. Mr. Marvel reminded Mr. Trotter that the newsroom and NFL Media reported to the NFL league office. It was clear to Mr. Trotter that he had to tread carefully whether speaking about these matters informally or reporting on these matters externally in connection with his journalistic work because the NFL and the team owners were ultimately his employer. But Mr. Trotter is highly principled and was undeterred.
  [several examples of him doing what his boss told him not to do]
  - Unfortunately, in or around June 2021, Mr. Marvel was let go and replaced by Ali Bhanpuri. Mr. Bhanpuri did not share Mr. Marvel’s support for Mr. Trotter or Mr. Totter’s critical view on the NFL’s problems with racism. Mr. Bhanpuri deterred Mr. Trotter from speaking up about these matters within the workplace or engaging in critical reporting about racial injustice within the NFL.
  - So he was told not to do something and he did it anyway. This is getting a bit more suspect on why he was fired. Now looking like insubordination.

10. Jerry Jones:

I don't know how to summarize this other than to say to go read it. In short, Mr. Trotter got upset that he wasn't allowed to report on a comment made by Jerry Jones directly to him until after his manager and others addressed it. Once again, Mr. Trotter does not come across in anyway as a coworker I would like to work with and certainly not as someone I would like as a subordinate. That's neither here nor there.

The actual comment made by Jerry Jones was "If blacks feel some kind of way, they should buy their own team and hire who they want to hire." which was made in response to Mr. Trotter asking him why there are "so few black decision makers."

In response to Mr. Trotter, Mr. Jones dodged the question and stated that players get a large percentage of league revenue and the majority of players are Black. In effect, Mr. Jones was stating that Black people should “be happy for what they have” and not seek further advancement of their rights, positions in society or equality. Mr. Trotter reiterated his question, and Mr. Jones responded, “I’m starting to feel a little defensive.” However, notwithstanding Mr. Jones’ previous answer or history of conduct, Mr. Trotter made it clear that he was not attacking him, or even speaking about the Cowboys, but just asking about the league generally. Mr. Jones finally responded: “If Blacks feel some kind of way, they should buy their own team and hire who they want to hire.” Mr. Trotter responded by asking if the NFL was going to change its rules requiring purchasers to buy at least 30% of the team and finance deals with no more than $1 billion in debt. Mr. Jones ignored the question. Towards the end of the conversation, Pittsburgh Steelers owner Art Rooney II arrived. At that point, Mr. Jones said in sum and substance that he and Mr. Trotter should “agree to disagree” about the NFL’s issues with race. It was an awkward moment for Mr. Rooney who had joined a rather contentious conversation without knowing the topic being discussed. The following morning, Mr. Trotter apologized to Mr. Rooney for being brought into that situation.

I'd love to see a real transcript of this conversation. The comment made is pretty bad. I suspect, based on how the rest of this complaint reads, Jerry Jones just wanted to get away from Mr. Trotter and found him pretty annoying. Not that it excuses his comment, but it does explain why Mr. Trotter may not have been offered a new contract.

11. Pegula (see below)

12. Once again brings up the Flores suit. Now he includes a quote wherein he's asking Goodell directly about underrepresentation during the "state of the league" press conference. Mr. Trotter alleges that, because he said "where I work" and "as a member of the media group" he was not asking his question (again, this is literally at a press conference) "in his capacity as a journalist. He was asking as an employee of the NFL" and was "engaged in protected activity address to Mr. Goodell directly." That's a leap.

13. Lack of sincerity with the accelerator program (kind of builds off of his earlier allegations about pandering):

Mr. Trotter felt that the Accelerator Program was another example of a public relations stunt with little chance of making any meaningful difference. Accordingly, Mr. Trotter drafted a column in which he was critical of the NFL’s efforts to achieve diversity in the coaching ranks and counted the Accelerator Program as yet program which was ill-conceived even if it had an appearance of being well-intentioned.

Mr. Bhanpuri gave Mr. Trotter substantial pushback regarding his critique of the NFL. Mr. Bhanpuri told Mr. Trotter that the article had to be more “balanced,” i.e. more favorable to the NFL. Mr. Trotter was also told that his article was “dismissive” towards the NFL and was told that “this week’s event was positive” and that sentiment had to be reflected in the article.

Mr. Trotter said he was being forced to write the article in a manner that NFL leadership wanted and not in a manner that reflected his genuine beliefs and opinions. In one particular email, Mr. Trotter said, “The only reason we’re doing it this way is because there is no way I’d be allowed to write what I really feel about it—which, ironically, is supposed to be the point of a column.”

This doesn't prove racism. The NFL has a self-interest here and it's Mr. Trotter's an employee of the organization. Also, frankly, Mr. Trotter just appears biased. It continues that he wouldn't let it rest and he had a zoom call with management which "appeared to be some level of unanimity that the article would run" but it never did. So I can understand why he'd be upset from a professional aspect, but he's also an employee of the NFL.

14. More complaints about lack of diversity in the news room and lack of action.

15. Told to stand down regarding the NFL's handling of the Damar Hamlin Incident 

• basically, the league didn't want the fact it intended to resume the game (initially) getting out. Mr. Trotter wanted to report on it. Got told no.
• Mr. Trotter, being a tenacious reporter, pushed further that he needed to speak to the individual or at the very least needed a comment from that person. Mr. McCarthy responded, knowing that Mr. Trotter was not “merely” a journalist but also an NFL employee, “I will call your supervisor if you don’t let this go.” Mr. Trotter responded that he was “fine with” Mr. McCarthy calling his supervisor because he was doing his job. Soon after, Mr. Trotter received a text message from Mr. Sperry. Mr. Sperry directed Mr. Trotter to “stand down” in his reporting on the story. Mr. Trotter responded, “I thought it was our job as journalists to always pursue the truth. Is that not the case?” Mr. Sperry never responded to Mr. Trotter’s text message—which speaks for itself.
• Employee of the NFL is told what he can and can't do in the capacity of his job working for the NFL. News at 11.

16. Other examples of Mr. Trotter's attempts to raise awareness about lack of diversity but nothing really worth repeating.

17. This is the part where he covers the actual contract renewal (or lack thereof).

• He basically admits to harassing Goodell. It's a pretty bad look.
• Mr. Goodell responded, “As an employee, you should have my email and phone number.” Mr. Trotter explained that he had reached out to Mr. Goodell’s team and tried several times to have Mr. Goodell on his (now former) podcast without success.
  - Oh boy. You wanted him on your podcast? This is drifting further and further from racial bias.
• It goes into detail on a conversation between Ms. Nunez and Mr. Trotter about whether or not he was willing to get "in alignment" at which point it's like a full page soap box by Mr. Trotter about standing up for views and speaking out. He then asks if he's getting a renewed contract and was told "I don't know, it's getting discussed."
• After that conversation, he stopped getting assigned writing pieces.
• He was then told his contract wasn't getting renewed.
• Therefore, retaliation (probably true in a very broad sense of the term?)
• Once again, he's supposed to be arguing he was discriminated against based on his race. You have to connect the dots, I guess.

18. I'm not breaking down the causes of action but he's listing a bunch of statutes that prohibit race-based discrimination. 

For the parts that are actually relevant to Bills/Sabres fans:

Complaint:
Mr. Pegula stated his opinion that Mr. Kaepernick's disenfranchisement was a "media problem" and proposed that the NFL needed a spokesperson to promote the league's image. Mr. Pegula suggested that the spokesperson be Black in order to placate the media: "For us to have a face, as an African-American, at least a face that could be in the media, we could fall in behind that." This statement exemplifies the NFL's focus on "appearing" inclusive when it is advantageous from a business or public relations angle, while not actually embracing the concept of diversity in any meaningful manner.

The statement references this article for the sources of the quotes: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/sports/nfl-owners-kaepernick.html

From the article:

The owners were intent on finding a way to avoid Trump’s continued criticism. The president’s persistent jabs on Twitter had turned many fans against the league. Lurie, who called Trump’s presidency “disastrous,” cautioned against players getting drawn into the president’s tactics.

“We’ve got to be careful not to be baited by Trump or whomever else,” Lurie said. “We have to find a way to not be divided and not get baited.”

The Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pegula sounded anguished over the uncertainty of when Trump would take another shot at the league. “All Donald needs to do is to start to do this again,” Pegula said. “We need some kind of immediate plan because of what’s going on in society. All of us now, we need to put a Band-Aid on what’s going on in the country.”

The Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shahid Khan countered that the worst was behind them. “All the damage Trump’s going to do is done,” he said.

The owners kept returning to one bottom-line issue: Large numbers of fans and sponsors had become angry about the protests. Boycotts had been threatened and jerseys burned and — most worrisome — TV ratings were declining.

Pegula complained that the league was "under assault." He unloaded a dizzying flurry of nautical metaphors to describe their predicament. "To me, this is like a glacier moving into the ocean," he said. "We're getting hit with a tsunami." He expressed his wish that the league never be a "glacier crawling into the ocean."

The Houston Texans owner Bob McNair was more direct. He urged the players to tell their colleagues to, essentially, knock off the kneeling. "You fellas need to ask your compadres, fellas, stop that other business, let's go out and do something that really produces positive results, and we'll help you."

After the Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross raised the idea of a "march on Washington" by N.F.L. players and owners, Eric Reid, Kaepernick's former teammate and the first player to kneel alongside him, brought the discussion back to Kaepernick. 

[...]

Pegula offered that he thought the league was battling a perception and “media problem.” He said it would be great for the league to find a compelling spokesman — preferably a player — to promote all of the good things they were doing together. He suggested that the league could learn from the gun lobby in this regard.

“For years we’ve watched the National Rifle Association use Charlton Heston as a figurehead,” Pegula said. “We need a spokesman.”

Anquan Boldin, a former N.F.L. wide receiver who was at the meeting, said that owners needed to be spokesmen, too. “Letting people know it’s not just the players that care about these issues, but the owners, too,” Boldin said.

Pegula didn’t address Boldin’s point except to add that it would be important for the spokesman to be black. (None of the owners in the N.F.L. are black.)

“For us to have a face, as an African-American, at least a face that could be in the media,” Pegula continued, “we could fall in behind that.”

 

Commentary:

• He's using this to reiterate his point about pandering, but this came from a league-wide meeting in which players were free to speak up and apparently none objected to this (again, 60-70% are black). So it somewhat weakens that point.
• Didn't realize a league owner proposed a march on Washington. Neat.
• In context, Pegula's comments make a more sense now. Doesn't really prove anything relevant to Mr. Trotter's suit except to confirm that the owners are white and they recognized they needed a more representative spokesman. 
• If anything, after reading the article, it makes me think the league actually tried to do meaningful change regarding racial issues which I didn't believe prior

 

Complaint:

The NFL Takes No Action in Response to Racist Conduct by Buffalo Bills
Team Owner Terry Pegula; Complaints “Swept Under the Rug.”

On September 3, 2020, a large NFL Media zoom meeting was held which included approximately 40 newsroom employees. The purpose of the meeting, during the
middle of the pandemic, was to connect people who were not working together in-person and discuss various stories people were working on.

During the meeting, an NFL Media reporter described a conversation he had with Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pegula in which Mr. Pegula was speaking about the recent emphasis on social activism by NFL players, and in particular support for Black Lives Matter.

As reported, Mr. Pegula stated that, “If the Black players don’t like it here, they should go back to Africa and see how bad it is.” This remark was so offensive and racist that the people in the meeting appeared to be frozen, unsure how to even react.

Mr. Trotter would not stand by and spoke up. In front of everyone in attendance, Mr. Trotter asked Mr. Marvel and Mr. Sperry if there was going to be a discussion about what Mr. Pegula had said given that it was so highly offensive and racist. They responded that they would speak to the reporter about it further and decide how to handle the matter.

Thereafter, Mr. Trotter sought out Mr. Marvel and Mr. Jurenka on a near weekly basis about what was being done to address Mr. Pegula’s discriminatory remarks. Mr. Trotter was repeatedly brushed off and told that “the league office is investigating it.”

However, this went on for months and Mr. Trotter never received any further update beyond this superficial statement. Notably, no one from the NFL’s league office ever reached out to Mr. Trotter to interview him in connection with any supposed “investigation” that was supposedly ongoing. Clearly it was not a priority to investigate an NFL team owner’s discriminatory animus and discriminatory remarks in conversations with employees.

Nearly one year after the incident, Mr. Marvel told Mr. Trotter that the league had provided him with a response. He told Mr. Trotter: “New York says it’s an HR matter and that’s the end of it.”

Thus, in response to an allegation by an employee (the reporter) and complaint by another employee (Mr. Trotter) that an NFL owner (an employer) made racist remarks that ridiculed Black players (also employees) for their social activism, the NFL did absolutely nothing.

Mr. Trotter said to Mr. Marvel, “So we are sweeping this under the rug?” Mr. Marvel responded, “I can only tell you what I’ve been told.”

Commentary

It's a bit self-contradictory to state that "the NFL did absolutely nothing" when the league did issue a response that it was an HR matter. I'd argue "doing nothing" means completely ignoring the complaint. That's neither here nor there.

So this is a reporter repeating a conversation he had with Terry Pegula in which Terry Pegula allegedly made an unacceptable comment. This should be pretty easy to follow up on in the discovery phase. Did the NFL investigate? There would presumably be a record of it. If there was no investigation, why? Where did it die? Or, you know, just depose the reporter.

Based on the text above, the league investigated. This complaint is trying to paint this as a sham investigation, at least in part due to the NFL's league office not interviewing Mr. Trotter. Additionally, the league responded to Mr. Marvel--apparently unsolicited because if it was done only after Mr. Trotter pressed, that would have been mentioned--and said it was an HR matter.

I suspect the actual chain of events--and what will be revealed during discovery--is the following:

• Reporter repeats conversation he had with Terry Pegula
• Mr. Trotter takes offense and lodges a complaint with his management
• Management clearly notified the NFL
• The NFL investigated. They talked to the reporter.
• the reporter refused to go on record to confirm or deny the conversation... why? Possibly over fear of retaliation which is a serious issue if true
• The NFL concludes hearsay isn't enough evidence and without the source confirming, nothing more is done.
• End of investigation

Unlike a lot of the allegations in this complaint, it's not directly contradicted by other portions of the complaint and there aren't other news sources which covered it. If the reporter made the comment in a zoom meeting which resulted in "people in the meeting [appearing] to be frozen" and there were 40 people in the meeting, I'm somewhat shocked this wasn't out earlier.

Assuming that the reported really did say what he allegedly said in this zoom meeting (should be easy to verify considering 40 witnesses), I suspect there's some truth in it and that's a bad look for Terry Pegula.

Edited September 14, 2023 by RochesterExpat
Fixed.

[SDS]

13 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

I read the full complaint--all 53 pages 🤮--and it's worth the read if you care about this. This is what happens when you spend 6 hours at your desk waiting for data science to deliver code to you. Still waiting...

Full disclosure on my personal bias so you have context for my commentary: First, I don't watch football anymore and I was never really a fan of the Bills (lets just say I'm happy that the Rooney family is called out in the complaint in a positive light for bringing change). Next, I believe at least some of the league owners are probably on some level, whether they realize it or not, racially biased. Hate to say the obvious, but it's a bunch of old white dudes AND WOMEN (my bad, fixed in edit) from a different generation and the socially acceptable standards for speech and behavior change with time (thankfully).

After reading the full complaint (granted, it's one side of the argument): I believe Mr. Trotter was not offered a new contract due to the questions he was asking the commissioner and league owners and his, frankly, antagonistic and seemingly hostile attitude toward his employer. I don't think he comes across as a "team player" or anyone I would ever like to work with. I don't believe he was racially discriminated against and I don't believe that was a consideration on his contract renewal.

Disclaimer: These are my opinions. This is not legal advice. If either the NFL or Mr. Trotter are seeking legal advice from the SabreSpace forum, they've already lost.

Things unrelated to the topic of this forum:

1. He's demanding a jury trial. That's interesting. Too lazy to search demographics for the original jurisdiction, but I'm guessing that's the play there.

2. His own account of events honestly makes him appear antagonistic toward his employer

• obviously this is subjective, but that's my personal interpretation. I also understand it's probably meant to read that way to portray him--rightfully or not--as a champion of civil rights. Just a peanut gallery comment.

3. He argues: 8 of 32 teams have black general managers, 3 of 32 teams have black head coaches, 1 in 6 EVP and above are black. 

• That's 25%,  9.4% and 16.7% black representation. Compared to overall US population of 13.6% black. Kind of makes the point moot from a stats perspective.
• "60-70% of the players are Black. Clearly the NFL's lack of diverse leadership led to a league and organization where Black people are not being given equal opportunities to obtain and/or advance to positions with meaningful authority" is a pretty terrible statement. It implies wide receivers are promoted to general managers, coaches or EVPs and ignores the entirely different skill sets.
• Honestly it's only really relevant if the 60-70% number is a reflection of general interest in football, wherein 60-70% of NFL fans are black, which is untrue.

4. He argues: "in the NFL Media newsroom, there are no black managers, no Black copy editors, and no Black full-time employees on the news desk."

• really NFL?
• I guess it depends on the overall number of jobs. If it's one manager, one copy editor and four employees on the news desk, it's hard to argue underrepresentation. In a vacuum this fact is pretty disturbing. I also don't know what the black representation is in the news media as a whole, but I suspect it's underrepresented in the industry anyway.
• This is probably the strongest point in this section.

5. Unsubstantiated accusation against the league that weakens his point:

"The NFL has consistently acquiesced to and participated in outright discrimination and continues to refuse to take remedial action to solve this obvious problem."

• If this is true (and it's "consistent" and "obvious") he should have been able to point to specific examples in this part of the complaint as he does above. He doesn't. The lawyer dropped the ball here. I realize it's meant to be attention grabbing, but statements like this can prejudice a judge.

6. Claims and Relief section:

• He is asking for remedies available under law (normal)
• He seeks "equitable relief to force the NFL to remedy and change its discriminatory and retaliatory practices and comply with the law" which would be implemented via a "court-ordered monitor to review the NFL's policies and/or practices and implement necessary changes with respect to hiring, retention and advancement of Black people throughout all levels of the NFL organization and hierarchy." He also wants a "full-scale investigation" in to the "discriminatory and/or retaliatory animus of all persons in positions of power within the NFL, including NFL team owners"
• Yeah, the first is a reasonable ask. The latter... not happening. 

7. Admin/Jurisdiction/Parties sections

• Same ***** different complaint

8. Points/Comments from factual allegations:

• The league was biased against black players in the 1930s and specifically says George Preston Marshall may have been personally biased.
  - this kind of broadly generalizes and era where this was unfortunatel normal (***** League) and Mr. Marshall died in 1969 so...
• Makes arguments that it took too long for the first black head coach, manager, etc.
  - valid points, but this is still 20+ years ago
• Argues that because it's the same owners who were biased then which, apart from Virginia McCaskey, is arguably untrue. The children of the owners aren't the same as the original owners themselves.
• Keeps saying the league profited off of Black people which is certainly an attempt to allude to slavery. Kind of a risky play depending on the judge
• Brings up the Colin Kaepernick situation and references former President Trump
  - The league never admitted racial bias over this. Mr. Trotter's own statements point to the fact Colin Kaepernick was sidelined for political speech which the courts have long held is not protected speech in the context of employment. It's also a public fact that Kaepernick's actions cost the league financially, so it's not a surprise he was blackballed. It's still a business. You don't intentionally hurt your business.
• Jon Gruden emails
  - Points to John Gruden's now public emails as evidence of pervasive racism, sexism, etc. 
  - Ignores the fact Gruden was fired (should mention he was brought back for a workout)
  - Ignores that the emails were only between two people and it's entirely within the realm of possibility that no one else knew their privately held opinions
• "Race-Norming in the NFL's Concussion Settlement" -- Put another way, the NFL not only insisted that white people simply have better cognitive function than Black people, but the league also did this in a context that would lead to reduced recovery for Black players relative to white players. The NFL’s assumption that someone is not as cognitively advanced as another person because of the color of his skin is the very definition of racism and is abhorrent.
  - Not touching this with a 10 foot pole except to say "there's more to it." Here is an article from WaPo if you're interested.
  - This is the strongest argument (in my opinion) of the league's bias, but the settlement agreement which allowed it was agreed to by the players so...
  - Also the NFL did cease doing this so they responded to it. For whatever that's worth.
• Alleges the NFL pandered to minorities following "widespread societal racial protests"
  - Quotes Goodell, "we were wrong" and later covers Goodell's past comments about Kaepernick. I guess people can't admit they were wrong?
  - His whole point kind of goes against the rest of his complaint, frankly, since it implies when the NFL takes the action he wants, it's just pandering.
  - This is really weak across the board
• Alleges the NFL attempted to pander to minorities after the Brian Flores' lawsuit
  - Points out the NFL responded to the suit by stating it was without merit.  That's standard practice.
  - Complains that the cases were sent to arbitration by a judge and suggests it's further evidence against the league. Also pretty standard practice.
  - Should add the lawsuit isn't even settled/heard yet.
  - Actually provides examples of the NFL taking action to change (mentions the Coach and Front Office Accelerator Program). Works against him again.
• NFL Owners Have Engaged in Numerous Instance of Bigotry
  - Mentions a 1957 photograph with Jerry Jones "a youth at the time" protesting desegregation and criticizes Jones' response once it became public
  - Mentions the owner of the Jets was subjected to an investigation by the State Department over reports he made Black staff members uncomfortable when he was a US ambassador. It's worth noting this is true and the State Department investigated, but ultimately concluded the allegations were "unsubstantiated"
• As another example, in 2017, at an NFL owner’s meeting, Bob McNair, then-owner of the Houston Texans, stated of Mr. Kaepernick and others’ racial injustice protests, “We can’t have the inmates running the prison.” Of course, referring to players, the majority of which are Black, as “inmates” has obvious racial meaning. Mr. McNair apologized, but later retracted his apology stating, “I didn’t really have anything to apologize for.”
  - Yikes. First that we are automatically associating black people with criminals. Second because the owners think they have that much control. Reality is, in context, McNair meant something akin to "you don't have students running the school." I'm available for PR contracting if Mr. McNair is interested.
• NFL Has Barriers of Entry for Black Leaders
  - Once again mentions zero black owners. For this to be relevant whatsoever, someone needs to prove a minority owner tried to buy a team and was denied for racial reasons. Is it unfortunate the league is white? Yes. Is it more likely a due to wealth distribution and not racial discrimination in the NFL? Also, yes.
  - Once again doesn't understand how stats work
  - Once again implies playing wide receiver has the same skill set as a GM and there's some kind of promotion track from one to the other
  - Criticizes the "Rooney Rule" for leading to sham interviews which is fair, but ignores the reason the rule was adopted because it helps the NFL's case
  - Mentions the Flores suit again even though that hasn't been settled or gone to court yet so it's not a big strength per se
• Jim Trotter's Impecable (sic) Resume as a Journalist
  - It's his CV and, like most CVs, has a spelling mistake.
  - Unsurprisingly, he has a genuinely impressive CV. 
   

9. Section on his time at the NFL:

• The NFL Team Owners, the NFL and NFL Media are a Single Enterprise
  - this part breaks down the relationship between the different entities
• Mr. Trotter's Employment at the NFL
  - Mr. Trotter also asked Mr. Sperry, the head of the news desk, to confirm his understanding that there was not a single full-time Black employee working on the news desk. Mr. Sperry confirmed in writing that Mr. Trotter’s understanding was correct, though also expressed concern regarding Mr. Trotter’s inquiry and implored Mr. Trotter not to speak publicly regarding this lack of diversity.
  - Thankfully, Mr. Marvel—Mr. Trotter’s manager when he started at the NFL—was a champion of Mr. Trotter and his unwillingness to accept the status quo. However, Mr. Marvel also let Mr. Trotter know that not everyone in the NFL was as accepting of diverse opinions that were critical of the NFL’s record on race discrimination. Mr. Marvel reminded Mr. Trotter that the newsroom and NFL Media reported to the NFL league office. It was clear to Mr. Trotter that he had to tread carefully whether speaking about these matters informally or reporting on these matters externally in connection with his journalistic work because the NFL and the team owners were ultimately his employer. But Mr. Trotter is highly principled and was undeterred.
  [several examples of him doing what his boss told him not to do]
  - Unfortunately, in or around June 2021, Mr. Marvel was let go and replaced by Ali Bhanpuri. Mr. Bhanpuri did not share Mr. Marvel’s support for Mr. Trotter or Mr. Totter’s critical view on the NFL’s problems with racism. Mr. Bhanpuri deterred Mr. Trotter from speaking up about these matters within the workplace or engaging in critical reporting about racial injustice within the NFL.
  - So he was told not to do something and he did it anyway. This is getting a bit more suspect on why he was fired. Now looking like insubordination.

10. Jerry Jones:

I don't know how to summarize this other than to say to go read it. In short, Mr. Trotter got upset that he wasn't allowed to report on a comment made by Jerry Jones directly to him until after his manager and others addressed it. Once again, Mr. Trotter does not come across in anyway as a coworker I would like to work with and certainly not as someone I would like as a subordinate. That's neither here nor there.

The actual comment made by Jerry Jones was "If blacks feel some kind of way, they should buy their own team and hire who they want to hire." which was made in response to Mr. Trotter asking him why there are "so few black decision makers."

In response to Mr. Trotter, Mr. Jones dodged the question and stated that players get a large percentage of league revenue and the majority of players are Black. In effect, Mr. Jones was stating that Black people should “be happy for what they have” and not seek further advancement of their rights, positions in society or equality. Mr. Trotter reiterated his question, and Mr. Jones responded, “I’m starting to feel a little defensive.” However, notwithstanding Mr. Jones’ previous answer or history of conduct, Mr. Trotter made it clear that he was not attacking him, or even speaking about the Cowboys, but just asking about the league generally. Mr. Jones finally responded: “If Blacks feel some kind of way, they should buy their own team and hire who they want to hire.” Mr. Trotter responded by asking if the NFL was going to change its rules requiring purchasers to buy at least 30% of the team and finance deals with no more than $1 billion in debt. Mr. Jones ignored the question. Towards the end of the conversation, Pittsburgh Steelers owner Art Rooney II arrived. At that point, Mr. Jones said in sum and substance that he and Mr. Trotter should “agree to disagree” about the NFL’s issues with race. It was an awkward moment for Mr. Rooney who had joined a rather contentious conversation without knowing the topic being discussed. The following morning, Mr. Trotter apologized to Mr. Rooney for being brought into that situation.

I'd love to see a real transcript of this conversation. The comment made is pretty bad. I suspect, based on how the rest of this complaint reads, Jerry Jones just wanted to get away from Mr. Trotter and found him pretty annoying. Not that it excuses his comment, but it does explain why Mr. Trotter may not have been offered a new contract.

11. Pegula (see below)

12. Once again brings up the Flores suit. Now he includes a quote wherein he's asking Goodell directly about underrepresentation during the "state of the league" press conference. Mr. Trotter alleges that, because he said "where I work" and "as a member of the media group" he was not asking his question (again, this is literally at a press conference) "in his capacity as a journalist. He was asking as an employee of the NFL" and was "engaged in protected activity address to Mr. Goodell directly." That's a leap.

13. Lack of sincerity with the accelerator program (kind of builds off of his earlier allegations about pandering):

Mr. Trotter felt that the Accelerator Program was another example of a public relations stunt with little chance of making any meaningful difference. Accordingly, Mr. Trotter drafted a column in which he was critical of the NFL’s efforts to achieve diversity in the coaching ranks and counted the Accelerator Program as yet program which was ill-conceived even if it had an appearance of being well-intentioned.

Mr. Bhanpuri gave Mr. Trotter substantial pushback regarding his critique of the NFL. Mr. Bhanpuri told Mr. Trotter that the article had to be more “balanced,” i.e. more favorable to the NFL. Mr. Trotter was also told that his article was “dismissive” towards the NFL and was told that “this week’s event was positive” and that sentiment had to be reflected in the article.

Mr. Trotter said he was being forced to write the article in a manner that NFL leadership wanted and not in a manner that reflected his genuine beliefs and opinions. In one particular email, Mr. Trotter said, “The only reason we’re doing it this way is because there is no way I’d be allowed to write what I really feel about it—which, ironically, is supposed to be the point of a column.”

This doesn't prove racism. The NFL has a self-interest here and it's Mr. Trotter's an employee of the organization. Also, frankly, Mr. Trotter just appears biased. It continues that he wouldn't let it rest and he had a zoom call with management which "appeared to be some level of unanimity that the article would run" but it never did. So I can understand why he'd be upset from a professional aspect, but he's also an employee of the NFL.

14. More complaints about lack of diversity in the news room and lack of action.

15. Told to stand down regarding the NFL's handling of the Damar Hamlin Incident 

• basically, the league didn't want the fact it intended to resume the game (initially) getting out. Mr. Trotter wanted to report on it. Got told no.
• Mr. Trotter, being a tenacious reporter, pushed further that he needed to speak to the individual or at the very least needed a comment from that person. Mr. McCarthy responded, knowing that Mr. Trotter was not “merely” a journalist but also an NFL employee, “I will call your supervisor if you don’t let this go.” Mr. Trotter responded that he was “fine with” Mr. McCarthy calling his supervisor because he was doing his job. Soon after, Mr. Trotter received a text message from Mr. Sperry. Mr. Sperry directed Mr. Trotter to “stand down” in his reporting on the story. Mr. Trotter responded, “I thought it was our job as journalists to always pursue the truth. Is that not the case?” Mr. Sperry never responded to Mr. Trotter’s text message—which speaks for itself.
• Employee of the NFL is told what he can and can't do in the capacity of his job working for the NFL. News at 11.

16. Other examples of Mr. Trotter's attempts to raise awareness about lack of diversity but nothing really worth repeating.

17. This is the part where he covers the actual contract renewal (or lack thereof).

• He basically admits to harassing Goodell. It's a pretty bad look.
• Mr. Goodell responded, “As an employee, you should have my email and phone number.” Mr. Trotter explained that he had reached out to Mr. Goodell’s team and tried several times to have Mr. Goodell on his (now former) podcast without success.
  - Oh boy. You wanted him on your podcast? This is drifting further and further from racial bias.
• It goes into detail on a conversation between Ms. Nunez and Mr. Trotter about whether or not he was willing to get "in alignment" at which point it's like a full page soap box by Mr. Trotter about standing up for views and speaking out. He then asks if he's getting a renewed contract and was told "I don't know, it's getting discussed."
• After that conversation, he stopped getting assigned writing pieces.
• He was then told his contract wasn't getting renewed.
• Therefore, retaliation (probably true in a very broad sense of the term?)
• Once again, he's supposed to be arguing he was discriminated against based on his race. You have to connect the dots, I guess.

18. I'm not breaking down the causes of action but he's listing a bunch of statutes that prohibit race-based discrimination. 

For the parts that are actually relevant to Bills/Sabres fans:

Complaint:
Mr. Pegula stated his opinion that Mr. Kaepernick's disenfranchisement was a "media problem" and proposed that the NFL needed a spokesperson to promote the league's image. Mr. Pegula suggested that the spokesperson be Black in order to placate the media: "For us to have a face, as an African-American, at least a face that could be in the media, we could fall in behind that." This statement exemplifies the NFL's focus on "appearing" inclusive when it is advantageous from a business or public relations angle, while not actually embracing the concept of diversity in any meaningful manner.

The statement references this article for the sources of the quotes: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/sports/nfl-owners-kaepernick.html

From the article:

The owners were intent on finding a way to avoid Trump’s continued criticism. The president’s persistent jabs on Twitter had turned many fans against the league. Lurie, who called Trump’s presidency “disastrous,” cautioned against players getting drawn into the president’s tactics.

“We’ve got to be careful not to be baited by Trump or whomever else,” Lurie said. “We have to find a way to not be divided and not get baited.”

The Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pegula sounded anguished over the uncertainty of when Trump would take another shot at the league. “All Donald needs to do is to start to do this again,” Pegula said. “We need some kind of immediate plan because of what’s going on in society. All of us now, we need to put a Band-Aid on what’s going on in the country.”

The Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shahid Khan countered that the worst was behind them. “All the damage Trump’s going to do is done,” he said.

The owners kept returning to one bottom-line issue: Large numbers of fans and sponsors had become angry about the protests. Boycotts had been threatened and jerseys burned and — most worrisome — TV ratings were declining.

Pegula complained that the league was "under assault." He unloaded a dizzying flurry of nautical metaphors to describe their predicament. "To me, this is like a glacier moving into the ocean," he said. "We're getting hit with a tsunami." He expressed his wish that the league never be a "glacier crawling into the ocean."

The Houston Texans owner Bob McNair was more direct. He urged the players to tell their colleagues to, essentially, knock off the kneeling. "You fellas need to ask your compadres, fellas, stop that other business, let's go out and do something that really produces positive results, and we'll help you."

After the Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross raised the idea of a "march on Washington" by N.F.L. players and owners, Eric Reid, Kaepernick's former teammate and the first player to kneel alongside him, brought the discussion back to Kaepernick. 

[...]

Pegula offered that he thought the league was battling a perception and “media problem.” He said it would be great for the league to find a compelling spokesman — preferably a player — to promote all of the good things they were doing together. He suggested that the league could learn from the gun lobby in this regard.

“For years we’ve watched the National Rifle Association use Charlton Heston as a figurehead,” Pegula said. “We need a spokesman.”

Anquan Boldin, a former N.F.L. wide receiver who was at the meeting, said that owners needed to be spokesmen, too. “Letting people know it’s not just the players that care about these issues, but the owners, too,” Boldin said.

Pegula didn’t address Boldin’s point except to add that it would be important for the spokesman to be black. (None of the owners in the N.F.L. are black.)

“For us to have a face, as an African-American, at least a face that could be in the media,” Pegula continued, “we could fall in behind that.”

 

Commentary:

• He's using this to reiterate his point about pandering, but this came from a league-wide meeting in which players were free to speak up and apparently none objected to this (again, 60-70% are black). So it somewhat weakens that point.
• Didn't realize a league owner proposed a march on Washington. Neat.
• In context, Pegula's comments make a more sense now. Doesn't really prove anything relevant to Mr. Trotter's suit except to confirm that the owners are white and they recognized they needed a more representative spokesman. 
• If anything, after reading the article, it makes me think the league actually tried to do meaningful change regarding racial issues which I didn't believe prior

 

Complaint:

The NFL Takes No Action in Response to Racist Conduct by Buffalo Bills
Team Owner Terry Pegula; Complaints “Swept Under the Rug.”

On September 3, 2020, a large NFL Media zoom meeting was held which included approximately 40 newsroom employees. The purpose of the meeting, during the
middle of the pandemic, was to connect people who were not working together in-person and discuss various stories people were working on.

During the meeting, an NFL Media reporter described a conversation he had with Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pegula in which Mr. Pegula was speaking about the recent emphasis on social activism by NFL players, and in particular support for Black Lives Matter.

As reported, Mr. Pegula stated that, “If the Black players don’t like it here, they should go back to Africa and see how bad it is.” This remark was so offensive and racist that the people in the meeting appeared to be frozen, unsure how to even react.

Mr. Trotter would not stand by and spoke up. In front of everyone in attendance, Mr. Trotter asked Mr. Marvel and Mr. Sperry if there was going to be a discussion about what Mr. Pegula had said given that it was so highly offensive and racist. They responded that they would speak to the reporter about it further and decide how to handle the matter.

Thereafter, Mr. Trotter sought out Mr. Marvel and Mr. Jurenka on a near weekly basis about what was being done to address Mr. Pegula’s discriminatory remarks. Mr. Trotter was repeatedly brushed off and told that “the league office is investigating it.”

However, this went on for months and Mr. Trotter never received any further update beyond this superficial statement. Notably, no one from the NFL’s league office ever reached out to Mr. Trotter to interview him in connection with any supposed “investigation” that was supposedly ongoing. Clearly it was not a priority to investigate an NFL team owner’s discriminatory animus and discriminatory remarks in conversations with employees.

Nearly one year after the incident, Mr. Marvel told Mr. Trotter that the league had provided him with a response. He told Mr. Trotter: “New York says it’s an HR matter and that’s the end of it.”

Thus, in response to an allegation by an employee (the reporter) and complaint by another employee (Mr. Trotter) that an NFL owner (an employer) made racist remarks that ridiculed Black players (also employees) for their social activism, the NFL did absolutely nothing.

Mr. Trotter said to Mr. Marvel, “So we are sweeping this under the rug?” Mr. Marvel responded, “I can only tell you what I’ve been told.”

Commentary

It's a bit self-contradictory to state that "the NFL did absolutely nothing" when the league did issue a response that it was an HR matter. I'd argue "doing nothing" means completely ignoring the complaint. That's neither here nor there.

So this is a reporter repeating a conversation he had with Terry Pegula in which Terry Pegula allegedly made an unacceptable comment. This should be pretty easy to follow up on in the discovery phase. Did the NFL investigate? There would presumably be a record of it. If there was no investigation, why? Where did it die? Or, you know, just depose the reporter.

Based on the text above, the league investigated. This complaint is trying to paint this as a sham investigation, at least in part due to the NFL's league office not interviewing Mr. Trotter. Additionally, the league responded to Mr. Marvel--apparently unsolicited because if it was done only after Mr. Trotter pressed, that would have been mentioned--and said it was an HR matter.

I suspect the actual chain of events--and what will be revealed during discovery--is the following:

• Reporter repeats conversation he had with Terry Pegula
• Mr. Trotter takes offense and lodges a complaint with his management
• Management clearly notified the NFL
• The NFL investigated. They talked to the reporter.
• the reporter refused to go on record to confirm or deny the conversation... why? Possibly over fear of retaliation which is a serious issue if true
• The NFL concludes hearsay isn't enough evidence and without the source confirming, nothing more is done.
• End of investigation

Unlike a lot of the allegations in this complaint, it's not directly contradicted by other portions of the complaint and there aren't other news sources which covered it. If the reporter made the comment in a zoom meeting which resulted in "people in the meeting [appearing] to be frozen" and there were 40 people in the meeting, I'm somewhat shocked this wasn't out earlier.

Assuming that the reported really did say what he allegedly said in this zoom meeting (should be easy to verify considering 40 witnesses), I suspect there's some truth in it and that's a bad look for Terry Pegula.

This has to be the longest post ever here and probably at twobillsdrive also. Lol. I tapped out somewhere around number 13. 🤷 
 

[RochesterExpat]

4 minutes ago, SDS said:

This has to be the longest post ever here and probably at twobillsdrive also. Lol. I tapped out somewhere around number 13. 🤷 
 

I am still sitting at my desk waiting for someone who clearly isn't going to deliver to send me code that clearly isn't written so that I can integrate it. 

Tomorrow is looking to be more of the same. Maybe I can see if I can find something else to top it tomorrow. Maybe I'll read War and Peace and write a book report or something.

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

I am still sitting at my desk waiting for someone who clearly isn't going to deliver to send me code that clearly isn't written so that I can integrate it. 

Tomorrow is looking to be more of the same. Maybe I can see if I can find something else to top it tomorrow. Maybe I'll read War and Peace and write a book report or something.

War and peace: the missing chapters.

[Zamboni]

That was an impressive read. I almost never read a post more than 3 or 4 paragraphs. I read the entire post. And @RochesterExpat ‘s commentary/opinion is very measured, reasonable and responsible.  
 

Now my commentary is short and sweet… i don’t know Trotter or his work. But for what’s it’s worth, I don’t like the cut of his jib/how he handles himself for the most part. Some items he brings up are absolutely worth exposing and exterminating. 
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Curt]

2 hours ago, qwksndmonster said:

Curt do I know you?

Not that I’m aware of.

[thewookie1]

Sounds a like Terry isn’t some kind of evil racist; maybe an older guy with some racial stereotyping but nothing too egregious. If his most racist statement in nothing but here-say then it should be tossed. 
 

This idea of using a black player as a facade isn’t anything special; especially nowadays where SJWs are crucifying companies who don’t literally kiss the feet of minorities. 

[Scottysabres]

2 hours ago, SDS said:

This has to be the longest post ever here and probably at twobillsdrive also. Lol. I tapped out somewhere around number 13. 🤷 
 

I read every word.

In the end, nothing has been provided to prove Pegula said that or not outside of 1 person. It's a he said he said moment.

Claiming something was said with 0 witnesses or evidence other than 1 person in circumstances where there is clear agenda driven objectivity by the accuser is the underlying factor in perception. Because this type of situation is all about perception imho.

Did he say it? Who knows, but I have enough factually reported behavior by the accuser to cast doubt. Good post.

[Quint]

Two words come to mind when I hear the name John Trotter:

Akim Aliu

[shrader]

What are the chances the zoom feed froze and Trotter misinterpreted that?😁

[SwampD]

6 hours ago, SDS said:

This has to be the longest post ever here and probably at twobillsdrive also. Lol. I tapped out somewhere around number 13. 🤷 
 

I read it all.

Nice work, Expat. 

I think that Terry actually had a pretty good grasp of the situation. As someone else already pointed out, if he had just said that they should go to "some other country" instead of "back to Africa," we wouldn't even be hearing about this. The fact that we are hearing about this tells me that he most likely said it.

Edited September 15, 2023 by SwampD

[SwampD]

Even if he said it, I don't think Terry is a racist, at least, not in the traditional sense. I just think he is kind of a blockhead when speaking in public and let slip what generation he is from.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by SwampD

[shrader]

8 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I read it all.

Nice work, Expat. 

I think that Terry actually had a pretty good grasp of the situation. As someone else already pointed out, if he had just said that they should go to "some other country" instead of "back to Africa," we wouldn't even be hearing about this. The fact that we are hearing about this tells me that he most likely said it.

 

Two years after the fact, he may very well have phrased it your way… or something else completely different. Someone mentioned earlier kids playing telephone. Now just imagine that game going on for 2 years. 

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, shrader said:

Two years after the fact, he may very well have phrased it your way… or something else completely different. Someone mentioned earlier kids playing telephone. Now just imagine that game going on for 2 years. 

Except that we heard reports about how bad he looked right after it happened. We wouldn't have heard those reports if he had said otherwise. Just my take.

[That Aud Smell]

6 hours ago, RochesterExpat said:

I read the full complaint--

I did not read this post.

[shrader]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

Except that we heard reports about how bad he looked right after it happened. We wouldn't have heard those reports if he had said otherwise. Just my take.

I’ve lost track of when that initial conversation happened. Regardless, we’re now three years removed from the zoom call and two degrees of separation. Whatever he said, the quote has warped a bit at this point. If it was so offensive why hasn’t the actual person complained?

Pegula had a full conversation with someone. That person then later has a whole dialogue with another group, from which Trotter picks out one line. Context gets clouded not once, but twice. I have a hard time putting much if any weight behind something like that. But that’s how we do everything these days, cherry picking whatever we’d like. 

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, shrader said:

I’ve lost track of when that initial conversation happened. Regardless, we’re now three years removed from the zoom call and two degrees of separation. Whatever he said, the quote has warped a bit at this point. If it was so offensive why hasn’t the actual person complained?

Pegula had a full conversation with someone. That person then later has a whole dialogue with another group, from which Trotter picks out one line. Context gets clouded not once, but twice. I have a hard time putting much if any weight behind something like that. But that’s how we do everything these days, cherry picking whatever we’d like. 

They did.

At the time, it was pointed out how bad TP's statement was. I remember the reports. Others do, too.

Is it worthy of money changing hands, due to a civil suit?,… I don't know, and what's more, I don't really care.

I am sure, though, that it happened. You're not. I am sure that I also don't care about that.

[nfreeman]

7 hours ago, SwampD said:

They did.

At the time, it was pointed out how bad TP's statement was. I remember the reports. Others do, too.

Is it worthy of money changing hands, due to a civil suit?,… I don't know, and what's more, I don't really care.

I am sure, though, that it happened. You're not. I am sure that I also don't care about that.

What reports, and when?  I don’t think there have been any stories about racist comments by TP before this.  

[Porous Five Hole]

Look y’all, you tryna tell me Pegs said something racist to a journalist, but said journalist never wrote a word about it in their publications?

C’mon now.  

[LTS]

16 hours ago, SDS said:

This has to be the longest post ever here and probably at twobillsdrive also. Lol. I tapped out somewhere around number 13. 🤷 
 

I definitely read the whole thing.  I think anyone who puts that much effort and thought into something should be rewarded with people reading it. I was wondering how many on here would not read the whole thing.  Today's TL;DR society is painful.  I'm not implicating you, although you willingly admit to tapping out. But as a culture we tend to not want to read longer commentary and just want things distilled down.  Unfortunately that often leads to incomplete pictures and understanding.

My bottom line on Trotter?  Nothing to do with his lawsuit, but if you think working for the league will allow you to report freely on the league (his employer) he really needed a wake up call.  His efforts would be far better rewarded being outside of that control.

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, SwampD said:

Even if he said it, I don't think Terry is a racist, at least, not in the traditional sense. I just think he is kind of a blockhead when speaking in public and let slip what generation he is from.

 

I think your comment best describes the likely context for his comments. Verbally, he is a fumbler. And also, he's a little out of step and behind on the times. I don't believe he has any malice in his heart. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

What reports, and when?  I don’t think there have been any stories about racist comments by TP before this.  

If I recall correctly, I believe he made some indelicate and awkward comments during the Kaepernick, BLM and players kneeling period. My take is his comments didn't come from malice as much as being a little out of touch from a generational standpoint. ( @SwampD described it very well in a prior post.)

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

What reports, and when?  I don’t think there have been any stories about racist comments by TP before this.  

So you are one of the others, then. I didn’t just make it up and there is no way I’m going digging for them.

During the owners meeting at the time of the whole anthem BS. Good luck finding anything now. I’m sure the NFL big brother machine has scrubbed it.

Edited September 15, 2023 by SwampD