Nice Article on Connor Clifton and what he brings to the Sabres

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It's not clear. It remains to be seen. You make more sense once you start using words like hope and believe.

Fandom is like religion, and the more devout, the less likely you are going to use, or even accept words like hope and believe.  For alot of folks, it just “is”.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

It's not clear. It remains to be seen. You make more sense once you start using words like hope and believe.

You are a fellow who likes to bet on games after they are played. Your pockets must be bulging with your winnings. 

[Stoner]

32 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are a fellow who likes to bet on games after they are played. Your pockets must be bulging with your winnings. 

Fair I suppose. I think I'd rather focus on the present than the future. Probably in a minority here, given the exalted status of prospects and #2027. Might explain how few posters participate in game chat.

[Norcal]

Other offers, more money and term. 

Preferred Granato and the Sabres.

Let's *****in GO!!!!!

[French Collection]

Not a splashy move but he will solidify the D corps and add some grit.

He is a veteran coming from a winning organization who will provide some leadership to a young team.

[PerreaultForever]

I've watched him for years and he was the underdog who wouldn't go away. Bruins were never sold on him but he always kept playing his way on to the roster despite their bias. "fast and fearless" is his forte with the only caveat being sometimes gets caught out of position as a result so his pairing is important, as is the system. It is possible (NOT PROBABLE) that he resembles a smaller Risto with us and the way we play in our own end. But, I do think he will be a welcome upgrade. 

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I've watched him for years and he was the underdog who wouldn't go away. Bruins were never sold on him but he always kept playing his way on to the roster despite their bias. "fast and fearless" is his forte with the only caveat being sometimes gets caught out of position as a result so his pairing is important, as is the system. It is possible (NOT PROBABLE) that he resembles a smaller Risto with us and the way we play in our own end. But, I do think he will be a welcome upgrade. 

As you seem to be indicating that his style of play is more suited to Granato's approach to defense and general style of play than Boston's more rigid/disciplined style of play. I really like this pickup. He might end up being a third pairing player but he will be a good addition to the unit. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

As you seem to be indicating that his style of play is more suited to Granato's approach to defense and general style of play than Boston's more rigid/disciplined style of play. I really like this pickup. He might end up being a third pairing player but he will be a good addition to the unit. 

Well yes, he might be better suited to our style, but I would counter that our "style" on D is really lacking. If we do not improve our GA this year we will not make the playoffs. So while I like Clifton a lot, and I think it was very good value in terms of adding talent, I have a small question mark beside him as that rigid structure you mentioned covered up for some of his errors. Will someone on the Sabres fill that gap if he gets caught out of position? That could make him look worse than he did in Boston. 

The feistiness and effort should be off the charts though. He is a real competitor and a decent scrapper too (even with his size). He blocks shots and hits (a lot) and we have been missing that. When Power fully grows into his body our D should end up being very good. 

For the time being I hope they pair Clifton with Power. I think that combination will work. Jokiharju and Power I have my doubts. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Jokiharju and Power I have my doubts. 

Not hard to have doubts after watching them play together last season.

In fact, after KA tossed Bush away like a used diaper to save a few shekels, Joki’s performance this coming season is the biggest question mark facing the Sabres D corps, because the depth behind Joki is Stillman, Clague and Bryson.

Edited September 9, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well yes, he might be better suited to our style, but I would counter that our "style" on D is really lacking. If we do not improve our GA this year we will not make the playoffs. So while I like Clifton a lot, and I think it was very good value in terms of adding talent, I have a small question mark beside him as that rigid structure you mentioned covered up for some of his errors. Will someone on the Sabres fill that gap if he gets caught out of position? That could make him look worse than he did in Boston. 

The feistiness and effort should be off the charts though. He is a real competitor and a decent scrapper too (even with his size). He blocks shots and hits (a lot) and we have been missing that. When Power fully grows into his body our D should end up being very good. 

For the time being I hope they pair Clifton with Power. I think that combination will work. Jokiharju and Power I have my doubts. 

I agree with you that the team has to play a tighter brand of style that includes the forwards. The Sabres are not going to replicate that team stifling defense of Boston because it is built differently. We have too many skaters and shooters whose talents are more offensive than defensive to play that more restrictive brand of play. However, as you state there has to be a better balance than what has been exhibited under the Granato tenure. The Sabres as presently constituted will never be a defensive juggernaut; they just need to improve from their current defensive baseline. That's doable. 

As far as what the pairings will be, I don't know. But I'm not really concerned about it. Granato is an open-minded coach who is not afraid to juggle the pairings and lines as required. He is very adept at putting the right combinations together and then rejuggling when need be. Contrary to popular belief, I'm more of a Joki advocate than most are here. 

[French Collection]

57 minutes ago, JohnC said:

However, as you state there has to be a better balance than what has been exhibited under the Granato tenure. The Sabres as presently constituted will never be a defensive juggernaut; they just need to improve from their current defensive baseline. That's doable. 

It is not that high of a bar to drop goals against by 20 while keeping the offense humming along.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, French Collection said:

It is not that high of a bar to drop goals against by 20 while keeping the offense humming along.

It is very doable. And much of that number can be done on the PK. The Clifton and Johnson acquisitions should help in that area. Also, I'm a believer in Levi. Better goaltending, as was exhibited in his short stint last year, should also be a factor in bringing the GA numbers down. 

[dudacek]

13 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Not hard to have doubts after watching them play together last season.

In fact, after KA tossed Bush away like a used diaper to save a few shekels, Joki’s performance this coming season is the biggest question mark facing the Sabres D corps, because the depth behind Joki is Stillman, Clague and Bryson.

You think that's what it was about?

i think it was more about the Sabres being very disappointed with what Boosh brought last year.

They've brought in 4 new players since the deadline and 3 of them were literally bottom 4 physical defenders— exactly Lyubushkin's role. They simply didn't believe in him. Check out Lyubushkin's ice time down the stretch. Check out Jokiharju's.

Ilya's corsi numbers were among the team's worst: worse than Henri's, worse than Bryson's and way below Stillman and Clague. From what i've read he also struggled with preventing zone entries, an area the Sabres are on record as wanting to improve.

I think it really boiled down to the organization thinking that Lyubushkin didn't skate well enough to succeed in their system. They think maybe Stillman, Johnson and Clifton can.

Now I don't necessarily agree with all of the above, but I think it's pretty clearly why Boosh got the diaper treatment.

Edited September 9, 2023 by dudacek

[Taro T]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I've watched him for years and he was the underdog who wouldn't go away. Bruins were never sold on him but he always kept playing his way on to the roster despite their bias. "fast and fearless" is his forte with the only caveat being sometimes gets caught out of position as a result so his pairing is important, as is the system. It is possible (NOT PROBABLE) that he resembles a smaller Risto with us and the way we play in our own end. But, I do think he will be a welcome upgrade. 

Really believe that he'll fit in very well with Power.  His flaws are ones that Power should be able to cover most of the time and Clifton won't be jumping into the rush before Owen gets a chance to like Jokiharju tended to want to do.

While landing Pesce or Hannifan in addition to Clifton and Johnson would've been nice, prior to them giving Lyubushkin away, it wasn't necessary for this unit to be significantly improved from last year as they had 1 legit top 6 D-man (Lyubushkin) backing them all up and Stillman can handle 3rd pairing usage.  Now, for this unit to be significantly improved they need to keep to just having 1 D-man out injured for any extended periods.

But, am comfortable with saying this D when healthy is significantly better than last year's version and Clifton being the 4 is a big part of that.  (Granato can't love him enough Jokiharju to bump him higher in the lineup than Connor, right?)

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Really believe that he'll fit in very well with Power.  His flaws are ones that Power should be able to cover most of the time and Clifton won't be jumping into the rush before Owen gets a chance to like Jokiharju tended to want to do.

While landing Pesce or Hannifan in addition to Clifton and Johnson would've been nice, prior to them giving Lyubushkin away, it wasn't necessary for this unit to be significantly improved from last year as they had 1 legit top 6 D-man (Lyubushkin) backing them all up and Stillman can handle 3rd pairing usage.  Now, for this unit to be significantly improved they need to keep to just having 1 D-man out injured for any extended periods.

But, am comfortable with saying this D when healthy is significantly better than last year's version and Clifton being the 4 is a big part of that.  (Granato can't love him enough Jokiharju to bump him higher in the lineup than Connor, right?)

It's going to be interesting to see how many minutes Erik Johnson is going to garner per game. I'm assuming that it will be on the third pair. His value is going to be highlighted as a PK. This unit in general has been thickened with the additions of the two free agents. Even if Clifton is on the second pair, Joki still can be moved up when injuries require it or vice a versa. This lineup in general has much more talent within its ranks to handle moving up when needed. Last year, Mitts was the classic example of that. 

[Pimlach]

I want them to add another vet to help with 5/6/7 roles.   

I want to see Bryson gone - right now he slots 7/8 with Stillman, that is not good enough Kevyn.  

21 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It's going to be interesting to see how many minutes Erik Johnson is going to garner per game. I'm assuming that it will be on the third pair. His value is going to be highlighted as a PK. This unit in general has been thickened with the additions of the two free agents. Even if Clifton is on the second pair, Joki still can be moved up when injuries require it or vice a versa. This lineup in general has much more talent within its ranks to handle moving up when needed. Last year, Mitts was the classic example of that. 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I want them to add another vet to help with 5/6/7 roles.   

I want to see Bryson gone - right now he slots 7/8 with Stillman, that is not good enough Kevyn.  

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but Bryson would among the better #8s in the league.

He's a mediocre #6 and an awful #4, but not many 8s have his skating ability and NHL experience.

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I want them to add another vet to help with 5/6/7 roles.   

I want to see Bryson gone - right now he slots 7/8 with Stillman, that is not good enough Kevyn.  

I don't see any more veteran defensemen being brought in. The Sabres have a couple of blueline prospects in Rochester who are not that far away from being NHL players. I see Ryan Johnson being brought up sometime in this season. Bryson in my mind can be a utility player. As a lower pairing player he gets too much negative attention. The proportion of criticism he gets to his limited role is out of balance. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by JohnC

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but Bryson would among the better #8s in the league.

He's a mediocre #6 and an awful #4, but not many 8s have his skating ability and NHL experience.

He and Clague both are reasonable 8's.  But 4 weeks ago, they were both excellent 9's.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you that the team has to play a tighter brand of style that includes the forwards. The Sabres are not going to replicate that team stifling defense of Boston because it is built differently. We have too many skaters and shooters whose talents are more offensive than defensive to play that more restrictive brand of play. However, as you state there has to be a better balance than what has been exhibited under the Granato tenure. The Sabres as presently constituted will never be a defensive juggernaut; they just need to improve from their current defensive baseline. That's doable. 

As far as what the pairings will be, I don't know. But I'm not really concerned about it. Granato is an open-minded coach who is not afraid to juggle the pairings and lines as required. He is very adept at putting the right combinations together and then rejuggling when need be. Contrary to popular belief, I'm more of a Joki advocate than most are here. 

I disagree with the bolded as a good idea. Juggling forward lines is different from D pairs. D pairs need stability. They need to learn how to play with each other and communicate well. Forwards do as well, but to a much lesser extent. I'm a big believer in finding line chemistry more than just 3 high end guys together. But slotting a different forward into a line is a lot simpler than mixing D pairs. 

I think last year we saw a good fit between Mule and Rasmus and so I would leave that alone. Dahlin had his best season ever on that side. The key is finding a match for Power. You have Joker, which imo failed. You also have the new additions. So you are either going with the veteran/mentor or the younger guy who fits the system and adds a missing element. To me, I go with the younger guy (Clifton) and have the old guy with less minutes in the third pairing but still in the room to pass on the wisdom. 

Depth isn't great though, which is why dumping Bush was not smart imo despite his flaws and limitations. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Really believe that he'll fit in very well with Power.  His flaws are ones that Power should be able to cover most of the time and Clifton won't be jumping into the rush before Owen gets a chance to like Jokiharju tended to want to do.

While landing Pesce or Hannifan in addition to Clifton and Johnson would've been nice, prior to them giving Lyubushkin away, it wasn't necessary for this unit to be significantly improved from last year as they had 1 legit top 6 D-man (Lyubushkin) backing them all up and Stillman can handle 3rd pairing usage.  Now, for this unit to be significantly improved they need to keep to just having 1 D-man out injured for any extended periods.

But, am comfortable with saying this D when healthy is significantly better than last year's version and Clifton being the 4 is a big part of that.  (Granato can't love him enough Jokiharju to bump him higher in the lineup than Connor, right?)

As I've been saying in other replies I do worry about the depth after dumping Bush. imo we are one top 4 injury away from a D problem. I do believe Clifton will pair with Power well. I liked him in Boston and I was for signing him in free agency way way back as I knew Boston wasn't going to pay him since they have a deep D with another guy still coming. To the bold though, I'm not sure. Cliffy really likes to jump into the rush more than you might think and if Granato green lights that he might be far more offensively minded than he has looked in his old system. I still think it's a good pairing though. Power should learn to use his body more and as he does that pairing will be quite formidable. 

[LGR4GM]

Ryan Johnson already can do everything Lyubushkin did. Novikov will be there shortly as well. 

[PerreaultForever]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Ryan Johnson already can do everything Lyubushkin did. Novikov will be there shortly as well. 

That's not the point though. The point is Stillman. Bryson, Clague. I would feel better about our D if Bush was #7 , not Stillman etc. 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's not the point though. The point is Stillman. Bryson, Clague. I would feel better about our D if Bush was #7 , not Stillman etc. 

I don't. Bush was bad for most of the year except for about a 3 week window near the end. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't. Bush was bad for most of the year except for about a 3 week window near the end. 

So your position is that Stillman or Bryson or Clague are better than Bush?

and do you believe we have adequate D depth?