Terry Pegula named Sabres President; PSE separating Bills and Sabres

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

Terry bought the Sabres to be able to make a better play at buying the Bills. He loves the Bills. He gets his mentions by the players and ESPN and all the love in the world. Half the Sabres fanbase hates him. Why wouldn’t he rather sell the Sabres? Not to mention the value of an NFL franchise is going to continue to grow faster than the value of an NHL franchise. 

So all those years he was a season ticket holder to the Sabres (by my quick Google search from 1980 to 1998), he was actually plotting to buy the Bills?

That's a hell of a job in playing the long game.  Well done Terry, Mr. President of the Buffalo Sabres!

No one knows what's at play, but count me in as not being worried about the team.

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

Terry bought the Sabres to be able to make a better play at buying the Bills. He loves the Bills. He gets his mentions by the players and ESPN and all the love in the world. Half the Sabres fanbase hates him. Why wouldn’t he rather sell the Sabres? Not to mention the value of an NFL franchise is going to continue to grow faster than the value of an NHL franchise. 

So all those years he was a season ticket holder to the Sabres (by my quick Google search from 1980 to 1998), he was actually plotting to buy the Bills?

That's a hell of a job in playing the long game.  Well done Terry, Mr. President of the Buffalo Sabres!

No one knows what's at play, but count me in as not being worried about the team.

[PromoTheRobot]

12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Obviously everything said by everyone (me included) in this forum is pure speculation. We all know absolutely nothing. 

I don't know the details of New York tax laws but logically I would suspect separating the two organizations allows for greater tax write offs should one lose money while the other makes money. Losses can usually get more than 1 to 1 write offs for smart accountants. Might just be that simple. It does also, obviously, set up an easier option for a sale of either should he want to. 

Maybe he gives up on the losing Sabres if this rebuild doesn't work. But also maybe he wants to focus more on the Sabres and thus he's president. Maybe he thinks he might sell the Bills cause he really doesn't like football as much as he likes hockey and he's just treated that as a business opportunity. Increase the value and then sell it off. Maybe he plans to give one of them to his daughter one day. Maybe he plans to sell both and retire to Florida. Who knows? 

I'm sure Terry ran an operating loss with the Sabres, especially during COVID, but the franchise tripled in value while he's owned it. That said, $400MM is in the bottom three of NHL values because of the market, good team or not. Put the Sabres in Houston and they are worth a billion overnight.

1 minute ago, JoeSchmoe said:

So all those years he was a season ticket holder to the Sabres (by my quick Google search from 1980 to 1998), he was actually plotting to buy the Bills?

That's a hell of a job in playing the long game.  Well done Terry, Mr. President of the Buffalo Sabres!

No one knows what's at play, but count me in as not being worried about the team.

So all those years he was a season ticket holder to the Sabres (by my quick Google search from 1980 to 1998), he was actually plotting to buy the Bills?

That's a hell of a job in playing the long game.  Well done Terry, Mr. President of the Buffalo Sabres!

No one knows what's at play, but count me in as not being worried about the team.

"I'll go get the papers...get the papers."

[sabresparaavida]

It’s also possible that this could be a move to allow for a minority stake in the Sabres to be sold.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Why pay millions to renovate a stadium if you plan to sell?  Simple, it’s like renovating a kitchen in a house.  You do it because it’s necessary.  You do because it adds value to the home.  You do it because it make it easier to sell the home.   

The fan experience has been awful for years, but it didn’t matter there were no fans to worry about as the team stunk.  With these renovations, you improve the product both on the ice and off.  The goal is to increase the season ticket base and thereby increasing the value of the franchise. The sale isn’t today or next week, but  with each playoff appearance the odds of a sale increase.  

The question is who in Buffalo, besides Jacobs and Bob Rich, are wealthy enough to keep the team in Buffalo long-term.

Just now, sabresparaavida said:

It’s also possible that this could be a move to allow for a minority stake in the Sabres to be sold.

I don’t mind that idea.

[Mango]

25 minutes ago, Quint said:

I was uncomfortable with Pegula not attending RJ Behind the Mic night. Instead, he sent a taped message. I can't imagine not going to RJ night unless it was a crisis.    I know this will get probably me canceled, but it seems to me this says that Kim is permanently out of the picture, whether it's disability, divorce or death. Despite all the blathering about the French Connection, I wouldn't be surprised with the eventual Pegula-less Sabres and/or Bills. 

 

I understand the saltiness. Also weird he called in, not even a video. 

I don't love what it (might) imply about Kim. I don't take that lightly. I almost prefer, for Kim's sake, that Terry dropped the ball by not showing up and Kim's health is actually on the steep upswing. 

[MBD]

14 minutes ago, nucci said:

easier to sell a good team and get a better price

True.  But the team would also start making money.

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Why pay millions to renovate a stadium if you plan to sell?  Simple, it’s like renovating a kitchen in a house.  You do it because it’s necessary.  You do because it adds value to the home.  You do it because it make it easier to sell the home.   

The fan experience has been awful for years, but it didn’t matter there were no fans to worry about as the team stunk.  With these renovations, you improve the product both on the ice and off.  The goal is to increase the season ticket base and thereby increasing the value of the franchise. The sale isn’t today or next week, but  with each playoff appearance the odds of a sale increase.  

The question is who in Buffalo, besides Jacobs and Bob Rich, are wealthy enough to keep the team in Buffalo long-term.

The better question is, would any owner want to own and keep them in Buffalo long-term, after what Terry went through? 

[...]

PSE was Kim's project. Kim can't proceed with PSE.

+

Whomever in the family was slated to take over PSE and, therefore, both sport properties and other activities, isn't prepared to/eager/ready/willing to take on such a huge responsibility.

+

Terry is getting old and is likely trying to reduce his work load.

+

Of course this sets up both sport properties to be sold or have ownership stakes sold.

=

What do you expect?

 

 

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by ...
Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?

[Cheektorado]

43 minutes ago, TheAud said:

No way to know of course, but my gut says this is the core of it. 

They had grand ambitions. All the peripheral stuff beyond the Sabres and Bills were also going to be key components of the family business empire. It was well intentioned hubris, and certainly within the rights of billionaires to pursue. But reality eventually hits billionaires, too.

(1) Making money in music, hotels, food, and fashion is hard. Barriers to entry are low = outsized profits are hard to come by. Outsized profits are what drives enterprise value. Unless lightning struck, these enterprises were always destined to be sidenotes next to the sports entities work north of $600M and $4B. 

(2) The ambitious, younger of the two owners is no longer the same person due to medical reasons.  The remaining functional owner is 72. He needs to take care of his wife, enjoy his family, and focus on the two sports franchises he owns. 

So why does he need PSE anymore?

Now what will happen to the Sabres or Bills is another story entirely and I don't think this announcement leads to anything other than speculation well beyond even my random musings here. 

 

I said pretty much of this in the thread on TBD TSW.  It's financial and time management by keeping 2 of the many PSE ventures.

I would wonder how much he makes by selling off some of the other entities and then getting some investors to help with the hockey rink upgrades.

It seems to me he would get rid of everything else BEFORE the Sabres and Bills.

25 minutes ago, Quint said:

I was uncomfortable with Pegula not attending RJ Behind the Mic night. Instead, he sent a taped message. I can't imagine not going to RJ night unless it was a crisis.    I know this will get probably me canceled, but it seems to me this says that Kim is permanently out of the picture, whether it's disability, divorce or death. Despite all the blathering about the French Connection, I wouldn't be surprised with the eventual Pegula-less Sabres and/or Bills. 

I think you're being a bit dramatic citing a crisis.  His life has been very tough since the Kim incident, and it's pretty well known she has made some progress but it's probably safe to say she can't help him with the businesses anymore.

Thus, the separation of entities which can make thing more focused for him.

[SDS]

41 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Just playing devil's advocate here to show how much we DON'T know:

1.  A new renovation of the arena helps the sale price.  (So does a new stadium in OP for the Bills.)

2.  Profit and appreciation are not the same thing.  Few sports teams are profitable.  The appreciation is what makes money.

3.  This one is just speculation--and not idle or mean or anything like that--but just speculation.  None of us really know, yeah?

Prove number one. For this suggestion to make sense he would need greater than 100% return on his investment. That’s the equivalent to a perpetual motion machine. Just keep spending money on the team and you’ll get more money than you spent in return.

[Doohicksie]

10 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

It’s also possible that this could be a move to allow for a minority stake in the Sabres to be sold.

Yes, we mentioned that upthread:

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I think I figured it out:  Remember a year or two ago, the NHL said teams can now sell up to... was it 25%? stake in a franchise?  This may be the precursor to a move to sell a stake in the Sabres to an investor.

 

[JustOneParade]

All of the things we're speculating/worrying about now could have happened prior to and without the dissolution of PSE. In the absence of those other business interests there is simply no need for a PSE to exist if it's down to only two teams (businesses). Could be a matter of overhead elimination. Could be a tax advantage (as @PerreaultForeverpointed out.

This is a big nothing burger IMPO.

[Eleven]

Just now, SDS said:

Prove number one. For this suggestion to make sense he would need greater than 100% return on his investment. That’s the equivalent to a perpetual motion machine. Just keep spending money on the team and you’ll get more money than you spent in return.

No?  Especially this:  "For this suggestion to make sense he would need greater than 100% return on his investment."  He already has greater than 100% ROI on each team.  A nicer "home" for each team would increase that ROI, I'd think.

[kas23]

1 hour ago, MBD said:

Seems like a prelude to selling the Sabres.  No reason to dissolved PSE unless that's the goal.  And of the two teams, there's no chance in hell he's selling the Bills, which are uber-profitable, unlike the Sabres.  Although the timing seems odd since the Sabres should finally make their return to the post-season this year.

I have to think PSE was set up for one reason and one alone: money. I would love to have to know the tax implications of forming PSE and the implications of him dissolving it. 

[LGR4GM]

42 minutes ago, Eleven said:

You spend 1 billion if you're gonna make 6 (or even 4) with a new stadium, though.  The total investment--Bills cost 1.2B (that was the purchase price), stadium costs, let's even make it big, 1.5.  That's 2.7.  Now.  he "can sell the Bills tomorrow for 4 billion"?  Get it?  That's 1.3 in profit.  BILLION.  Again, not attacking you, just playing devil's advocate.  

I don't think that he will sell the Sabres.  I don't think that this move is about that.  But I also have NOTHING to go on, and none of us do. 

Okay stop for a second. He can sell the Bills right this second for 4billion, Bills Mafia is a global brand at this point. Why would a guy invested 1.2 be like, why dont I spend another billion to get the same profit? It doesn't make sense. Also who cares if he sells? Terry could sell the Bills tomorrow and they will stay in Orchard Park. 

The Sabres are now his main focus judging by being the President, something he's basically been for years. So if he is selling them, why bother doing all that? Also why would the NHL allow the Sabres to move, it is the closest franchise to Toronto and sorry kids but "media markets" are about to be irrelevant because with streaming, ppl will just watch whatever wherever. The old regional media market idea is going to die. 

[Quint]

15 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I understand the saltiness. Also weird he called in, not even a video. 
 

As Sabres fans, we've had the ownership rug pulled out from under us with Rigas already. Golisano was also a short-term thing, although he insisted the franchise be kept in Buffalo by the next owner. I just don't get the feeling that Pegula has long-term plans for the money-losing business of hockey. With all the ballyhoo about an expansion team winning the cup, I wonder how much the Vegas Knights actually made this year. Or the previous cup winners. Probably not much. I just feel really shaky these days about instability all over in our lives. My Post Office just closed overnight with no prior announcement...I also keep hearing fire truck and police sirens all day long, where it was a rarity before. We also have all these new gigantic apartment building construction all around us. Big and ugly. Who's moving in there? I think things are changing, and maybe not for the better.

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, Eleven said:

No?  Especially this:  "For this suggestion to make sense he would need greater than 100% return on his investment."  He already has greater than 100% ROI on each team.  A nicer "home" for each team would increase that ROI, I'd think.

No he would need 100% ROI on spending the extra Billion on the stadium and who knows what the renovations for the arena would cost but same thing applies. 

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Okay stop for a second. He can sell the Bills right this second for 4billion, Bills Mafia is a global brand at this point. Why would a guy invested 1.2 be like, why dont I spend another billion to get the same profit? It doesn't make sense. Also who cares if he sells? Terry could sell the Bills tomorrow and they will stay in Orchard Park. 

The Sabres are now his main focus judging by being the President, something he's basically been for years. So if he is selling them, why bother doing all that? Also why would the NHL allow the Sabres to move, it is the closest franchise to Toronto and sorry kids but "media markets" are about to be irrelevant because with streaming, ppl will just watch whatever wherever. The old regional media market idea is going to die. 

1.  It will be 6B by the time the new stadium opens.  maybe more.

2.  Don't know what you're doing here, I didn't say anything about anyone moving.

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

No he would need 100% ROI on spending the extra Billion on the stadium and who knows what the renovations for the arena would cost but same thing applies. 

As above...

[MBD]

8 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I have to think PSE was set up for one reason and one alone: money. I would love to have to know the tax implications of forming PSE and the implications of him dissolving it. 

Or maybe it was Kim's idea and he wanted to make her happy, but it was better to break them up like he's doing now?  I don't know.  Way above my pay grade.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Quint said:

As Sabres fans, we've had the ownership rug pulled out from under us with Rigas already. Golisano was also a short-term thing, although he insisted the franchise be kept in Buffalo by the next owner. I just don't get the feeling that Pegula has long-term plans for the money-losing business of hockey. With all the ballyhoo about an expansion team winning the cup, I wonder how much the Vegas Knights actually made this year. Or the previous cup winners. Probably not much. I just feel really shaky these days about instability all over in our lives. My Post Office just closed overnight with no prior announcement...I also keep hearing fire truck and police sirens all day long, where it was a rarity before. We also have all these new gigantic apartment building construction all around us. Big and ugly. Who's moving in there? I think things are changing, and maybe not for the better.

A couple of things before I log off because quite honestly, the discourse on Sabrespace has declined in recent years. 

First, Billionaires are writing off any losses and don't give a flying F if their hockey team lost 10million last year. It doesn't matter because the value of the franchise is the key selling point here. It would be like if I put a new set up steps on my house and then turn around and gripe because well now my house cost me 10k. It doesn't matter because the value has appreciated. Why do you think Ryan Reynold bought a soccer team and tried to buy and NHL franchise, because it isn't about the balance sheet as much as the value. 

Second and to the bolded. This says more about you than anything really. Turn off cable news and enjoy summer and fall. 

[SDS]

30 years of Buffalo Sabres fans:

The team is cutting costs because they’re getting ready to sell.

The team won’t spend anymore money because they’re getting ready to sell.

The team is investing in the team and the arena because they’re getting ready to sell.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

1.  It will be 6B by the time the new stadium opens.  maybe more.

2.  Don't know what you're doing here, I didn't say anything about anyone moving.

As above...

Everyone else is talking about moving because there are a bunch of ppl here who have lived in constant fear of the teams moving for 40 years. 

Just now, SDS said:

30 years of Buffalo Sabres fans:

The team is cutting costs because they’re getting ready to sell.

The team won’t spend anymore money because they’re getting ready to sell.

The team is investing in the team in the arena because they’re getting ready to sell.

Exactly. Terry Pegula could walk out tomorrow with his son and say "we are building a brand new arena and my son is excited to finish his MBA and take over the family business. We've signed a deal to the Sabres in Buffalo for the next 50 years" and you would come to this place and hear "OMG! TERRY HATES BUFFALO AND IS SELLLING THE TEAM!" 

Outrage culture. 

[Quint]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

A couple of things before I log off because quite honestly, the discourse on Sabrespace has declined in recent years. 

First, Billionaires are writing off any losses and don't give a flying F if their hockey team lost 10million last year. It doesn't matter because the value of the franchise is the key selling point here. It would be like if I put a new set up steps on my house and then turn around and gripe because well now my house cost me 10k. It doesn't matter because the value has appreciated. Why do you think Ryan Reynold bought a soccer team and tried to buy and NHL franchise, because it isn't about the balance sheet as much as the value. 

Second and to the bolded. This says more about you than anything really. Turn off cable news and enjoy summer and fall. 

Thank you for single-handedly holding up the discourse in recent years, Mr. Expert.

[Zamboni]

10 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I have to think PSE was set up for one reason and one alone: money. I would love to have to know the tax implications of forming PSE and the implications of him dissolving it. 

And of course there’s nothing wrong with Terry and his companies trying to save tax dollars. Hell, everyone tries to save on paying taxes when they can. Regardless of what people think is moral or slimy, most try to save on taxes legally. And some … politicians, actors, athletes, and everyday joes try it illegally 😂

[LGR4GM]

58 minutes ago, Quint said:

I was uncomfortable with Pegula not attending RJ Behind the Mic night. Instead, he sent a taped message. I can't imagine not going to RJ night unless it was a crisis.    I know this will get probably me canceled, but it seems to me this says that Kim is permanently out of the picture, whether it's disability, divorce or death. Despite all the blathering about the French Connection, I wouldn't be surprised with the eventual Pegula-less Sabres and/or Bills. 

 

FTR, Kim Pegula has a disability. So it isn't divorce and I see no reason why we need to worry about the other either. 

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

And of course there’s nothing wrong with Terry and his companies trying to save tax dollars. Hell, everyone tries to save on paying taxes when they can. Regardless of what people think is moral or slimy, most try to save on taxes legally. And some … politicians, actors, athletes, and everyday joes try it illegally 😂

Let's be clear about something. The reason ppl like Terry and other rich ppl can save on taxes legally is because they and their buddies have written the tax codes. 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I'd substitute Sabres for Bills in this post. Viva la difference!

I do have "I'm a football guy" on my side. More circumstantially Terry said he didn't know the Sabres were for sale after the Rigas downfall. What fan didn't know that?

I'd substitute Sabres for Bills in this post. Viva la difference!

I do have "I'm a football guy" on my side. More circumstantially Terry said he didn't know the Sabres were for sale after the Rigas downfall. What fan didn't know that?

 

I haven’t see one pic of TP coaching little league football. He must not have loved it as much.

Edited August 28, 2023 by K-9