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Terry Pegula named Sabres President; PSE separating Bills and Sabres

Doohicksie

By Doohicksie
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That Aud Smell Hall of Famer

That Aud Smell

Posted
Posted
  On 9/5/2023 at 2:42 PM, Pimlach said:

When things like labor rates go up the Contractor's must manage to that, the labor rate changes from year to year are not an opener for the contract.  If the contractors labor rates increase he pays it out of his own reserve or from his fee (profit).  

....

From the BN article, it appears they did not have all the bids in and all the suppliers selected and locked into a contract, so the numbers they started with for the project were incomplete and based on projections that are inaccurate.   We could see more significant cost growth apparently.  

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There's a lotta knowledge and perspective in the above. *Stick tap*

Based on the immediate ballooning of the budget, there were clearly many "openers" for the general(s) on this deal (I appreciate that term of art). And, as has been reported many times, those openers and price escalations are a risk that the Pegulas absorbed. I imagine that there's a lot of haggling going on behind the scenes. The owner's not going to take $300M in increases lying down. OTOH, they want their project built on time.

It is quite apparent that the project bid estimate was fairly notional. There's the MWBE mandates, for example, which seemed to be mostly unfulfilled and undetermined when the bids were awarded. 

Pimlach All Star

Pimlach

Posted
Posted
  On 9/5/2023 at 3:05 PM, That Aud Smell said:

There's a lotta knowledge and perspective in the above. *Stick tap*

Based on the immediate ballooning of the budget, there were clearly many "openers" for the general(s) on this deal (I appreciate that term of art). And, as has been reported many times, those openers and price escalations are a risk that the Pegulas absorbed. I imagine that there's a lot of haggling going on behind the scenes. The owner's not going to take $300M in increases lying down. OTOH, they want their project built on time.

It is quite apparent that the project bid estimate was fairly notional. There's the MWBE mandates, for example, which seemed to be mostly unfulfilled and undetermined when the bids were awarded. 

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Thanks.   I have to check myself though as commercial business is different than what I really know, which is contracting with the Government.  

As for the MWBE mandates, the government asks for proof that X% of the contract dollars go to small businesses, minority owned, women owned, etc.  And they need that proof before award.   From my experience this mandate has turned out to be mostly a good thing.  

That Aud Smell Hall of Famer

That Aud Smell

Posted
Posted
  On 9/5/2023 at 3:21 PM, Pimlach said:

Thanks.   I have to check myself though as commercial business is different than what I really know, which is contracting with the Government.  

As for the MWBE mandates, the government asks for proof that X% of the contract dollars go to small businesses, minority owned, women owned, etc.  And they need that proof before award.   From my experience this mandate has turned out to be mostly a good thing.  

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My experience is that generals on these hybrid public/private projects often struggle to comply with those mandates and frequently seek waivers. 

MBD Fourth Liner

MBD

Posted
Posted
  On 9/1/2023 at 3:27 PM, xzy89c1 said:

why are you confident they wont move?

I wish we were building a great downtown hockey rink instead of the bills stadium. I think we will end up with only 1 pro team in next ten years. With the money sunk into stadium bills are not going anywhere. Buffalo cannot support two pro teams anymore. I would vote for sabres over bills. 50 games a year with playoffs. I am being optimist i know. Bills are maybe 10 games that we care about if they get a couple home playoff games. 

Would you all rather have Bills or Sabres? I am definitely Sabres all the way

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Buffalo can support 2 pro teams.  The only question is: if Terry sells, will the new owner want to keep it in Buffalo?  For those with a beef with Terry and want to see him gone, I'd be careful what you wish for.

And of the 2 teams, the Bills are infinitely more important.  Especially with keeping the Sabres in Buffalo under Terry.

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Doohicksie Hall of Famer

Doohicksie

Posted
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Posted
  On 9/5/2023 at 3:21 PM, Pimlach said:

Thanks.   I have to check myself though as commercial business is different than what I really know, which is contracting with the Government.  

As for the MWBE mandates, the government asks for proof that X% of the contract dollars go to small businesses, minority owned, women owned, etc.  And they need that proof before award.   From my experience this mandate has turned out to be mostly a good thing.  

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I would say the estimates used for the initial cost estimate used favorable assumptions.  The eventual contracts, if they are over a multi-year period, probably baked a lot of risk into the quote, thus the increase.  If they are fixed price contracts, the bidding companies had to do that to protect their own financial interests.  If they are cost plus contracts, they price may actually come down if they bid too conservatively.

Marvin First Liner

Marvin

Posted
Posted
  On 9/6/2023 at 12:44 PM, Skooby said:

You’d be more right than you know

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You may be right, but until someone else reports it, expect to be called out on it routinely.

Learn the lesson of a poster on HFBoards.  Very shortly after game 6 against Carolina, he reported that Jay McKee would miss game 7 with a staph infection.  Until it was confirmed 12 hours later, he took a lot of flak.  And he had never been wrong before and has never been wrong since.  Virtually none of us have a spotless track record; this, if you with a lesser record keep cramming this down people's throats, you can expect a lot of negative reactions.

Oh, and don't be insulting because someone disagrees with you.

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SwampD Hall of Famer

SwampD

Posted
Posted
  On 9/10/2023 at 11:57 AM, That Aud Smell said:

Lance Lysowski and another TBN writer (local hagiographer Tim O’Shei) did a good job providing some perspective on the dissolution of PSE, etc.

https://buffalonews.com/news/buffalo-bills-buffalo-sabres-john-roth-terry-pegula-kim-pegula-ron-raccuia-changes/article_d3785084-4e50-11ee-9e20-3bd157f33e45.html

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😂

Nice.

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Pimlach All Star

Pimlach

Posted
Posted
  On 9/10/2023 at 1:58 PM, Scottysabres said:

Wasn't there an article from the Athletic late last year? Maybe early this year? Where Terry actually stated both the Bills and Sabres aren't going anywhere?

I remember reading it.

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Similar to that article about Boterill?  

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