How many days until the Sabres season

[dudacek]

10 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

There's been no success. There's been no competence shown, not in a league where half the teams make the playoffs.

Period.

As my dear friend SDS likes to say, stop trying to make fetch happen.

I missed this earlier.

Saying no competence has been shown given the hole we were in 2 years ago and what has happened since demonstrates a ridiculously narrow definition of competence.

It’s no less blind than JohnC’s definition of success.

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I missed this earlier.

Saying no competence has been shown given the hole we were in 2 years ago and what has happened since demonstrates a ridiculously narrow definition of competence.

It’s no less blind than JohnC’s definition of success.

We are at least at (to use my old term) Base Level Competence. Which, make no mistake, is a drastic turnaround, as you rightly point out. That base level competence is so far beyond where we were, yet still (at least thus far) leaving us in a below-average spot standings wise is where much of the consternation comes from I think. It can and is two things at once, we can (and should) say we have seen a ton of improvement while at the same time saying more is *necessary*. Not that it’d be nice: literally that it must come, in reasonably punctual fashion, for the improvement we have seen to be made whole.

I think my biggest contention is that those claiming the success itself is already here.....difficult to put into words but I guess just for me, it ruins the fun. We’ve been waiting so, so long for much of *any*, if we need to proclaim it here, before it even actually is, it’s anticlimactic 

[dudacek]

35 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We are at least at (to use my old term) Base Level Competence. Which, make no mistake, is a drastic turnaround, as you rightly point out. That base level competence is so far beyond where we were, yet still (at least thus far) leaving us in a below-average spot standings wise is where much of the consternation comes from I think. It can and is two things at once, we can (and should) say we have seen a ton of improvement while at the same time saying more is *necessary*. Not that it’d be nice: literally that it must come, in reasonably punctual fashion, for the improvement we have seen to be made whole.

I think my biggest contention is that those claiming the success itself is already here.....difficult to put into words but I guess just for me, it ruins the fun. We’ve been waiting so, so long for much of *any*, if we need to proclaim it here, before it even actually is, it’s anticlimactic 

I think that’s where a lot of the tension around here comes from: most of us can see how close we are, and it’s been so long since we've been here (2016? 2009?) that we’re terrified it will be frittered away.

So suggestions that we’ve already made it, or that we’re the same old Sabres, are frustrating as hell.

At the edge is absolutely the wrong time to give up, or to ease up: dig in and get over the hump.

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

The place has become SO overwhelming “fall in line with the plan or you aren’t a true fan” positive that even the smallest critical take sticks out, like the singular drink to the non-drinker. It’s why we get takes like that, when it’s by FAR the most optimistic (deservedly so) its been in a while

Just because you keep saying this doesn’t make it true. 

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I missed this earlier.

Saying no competence has been shown given the hole we were in 2 years ago and what has happened since demonstrates a ridiculously narrow definition of competence.

It’s no less blind than JohnC’s definition of success.

It definitely discredits the general improvement and continued growth of an incredibly young collection of players playing key roles (particularly on the blue line).

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

This is the exact policing that is severely cutting down my enjoyment here: an *overwhelmingly* positive board that has certain members actively losing their minds at even the sniff of the suggestion of concern 

you have it ass backwards. Respectfully

 

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

The place has become SO overwhelming “fall in line with the plan or you aren’t a true fan” positive that even the smallest critical take sticks out, like the singular drink to the non-drinker. It’s why we get takes like that, when it’s by FAR the most optimistic (deservedly so) its been in a while

You're full of it. Every thread devolves into the same posters complaining about the same things. But yea... it's policing. What a joke Thorny. This thread was about the countdown to the season starting and its the same crap as every single other thread. There's no policing crap, there's just a bunch of ppl whining about the same problems everywhere repeatedly. 

Policing. Lol yea that's what's happening when every thread is the same and some of us note it. What a joke. 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

…and yet you are still here….BITCHING.    Why not leave if all the “bitching” bothers you so much?

❄️ ❄️ ❄️ 

[Thorner]

33 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Just because you keep saying this doesn’t make it true. 

Very true. It’s certainly true of my own experience, though 

Which is all I can really speak to

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

 

You're full of it. Every thread devolves into the same posters complaining about the same things. But yea... it's policing. What a joke Thorny. This thread was about the countdown to the season starting and its the same crap as every single other thread. There's no policing crap, there's just a bunch of ppl whining about the same problems everywhere repeatedly. 

Policing. Lol yea that's what's happening when every thread is the same and some of us note it. What a joke. 

Though I undoubtedly and admittedly am full of “it”, or something derogatory no doubt, we’ve almost never seen eye to eye, so it doesn’t really surprise me our perspectives differ here. 

You frequently take disagreement with the strategy to be ignorance. Frankly the perception I come away with from most threads is exactly what I originally said. But like I also said, it SHOULD be positive. That’s deserved imo. I share much of it. As I said originally, there are certain posts from certain posters that feel very much like policing. I reference mostly ones directly responding to me but also just what I’ve seen to an extent 

I don’t get as hung up on Nill’s posts, which also probably makes a difference 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Thorny

[Stoner]

46 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

It definitely discredits the general improvement and continued growth of an incredibly young collection of players playing key roles (particularly on the blue line).

This is professional sports. I'm over being a development team. I honestly think most fans are.

[dudacek]

41 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

This is professional sports. I'm over being a development team. I honestly think most fans are.

I think most fans are over being a bad team.

I think most fans are on board with development if it leads to contention and on board with contention if it leads to championships. And I think most fans were fine with last year in the context of what came before, but they wan’t be fine with a repeat of last year.

Or did you honestly think we were going to go from the .330 team of 20/21 to Stanley Cup contender in 22/23?

[Stoner]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think most fans are over being a bad team.

I think most fans are on board with development if it leads to contention and on board with contention if it leads to championships. And I think most fans were fine with last year in the context of what came before, but they wan’t be fine with a repeat of last year.

Or did you honestly think we were going to go from the .330 team of 20/21 to Stanley Cup contender in 22/23?

Of course they'll be fine with it. That's the nature of fans and sycophants.

My big beef is Adams not even trying to push the team over thr top last season and continuing to slow roll things this summer. He's taking advantage of a situation.

[Pimlach]

17 hours ago, JohnC said:

I am going to use the word success because I believe rebuilding a team into a contending team takes time and is a process. In my view, the Sabres had a successful season last year. Were there disappointments? Of course. But in general, it was a successful season and left me encouraged entering this season. 

 

@JohnCyour unbridled support and praise for Adams reminds me of Dustin Hoffman in this clip.  
 

[Crusader1969]

As of August 6th there are 

         Until puck drop

ill be really impressed if you can name this player without help of the internet 

[Crusader1969]

12 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Of course they'll be fine with it. That's the nature of fans and sycophants.

My big beef is Adams not even trying to push the team over thr top last season and continuing to slow roll things this summer. He's taking advantage of a situation.

Sometimes I think your beef is with fans who are optimistic and are excited for the season.  Can you not let someone who is “looking forward to the season with a belief that the  Sabres are in a position to succeed” be?   Why do you feel the need to tear that person down? 

 

[...]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

Sometimes I think your beef is with fans who are optimistic and are excited for the season.  Can you not let someone who is “looking forward to the season with a belief that the  Sabres are in a position to succeed” be?   Why do you feel the need to tear that person down? 

 

Megalomania. Or is it narcissism? 

[Stoner]

33 minutes ago, ... said:

Megalomania. Or is it narcissism? 

That's over the line. You don't even know Crusader.

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

As of August 6th there are 

         Until puck drop

ill be really impressed if you can name this player without help of the internet 

Hint #1.  defenceman 

[JohnC]

20 hours ago, dudacek said:

I missed this earlier.

Saying no competence has been shown given the hole we were in 2 years ago and what has happened since demonstrates a ridiculously narrow definition of competence.

It’s no less blind than JohnC’s definition of success.

With respect to your characterization of my position you are grossly off the mark. What has the GM accomplished over the past three years (not counting his first year because of Krueger's influence in hockey operations)? The GM has rebuilt the front office, the scouting department, the analytical department and selected the current HC to guide the young roster. By any common-sense measure that's a success. The team gained 16 points from the previous year with one of the youngest rosters in the league. By any common-sense measure that's a success. Our farm system is acknowledged to be one of the best in the league. That's a success. The characterization that I'm a fanatical fawning fan of this current GM because I'm a biased hometown fan is way off the mark. I'm basing my opinion on performance. You don't get to being a top tier team without going through the hard steps of getting better. And that's exactly the process that this franchise is undergoing.  It can't be questioned that much has been accomplished in a relatively short period of time. Obviously, more needs to be done. 

My expectation is that the Sabres will be a playoff team this season. It's the same expectation that the organization and most fair-minded fans of this team have. That's not based on blindness as it is based on realism. 

[Weave]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

With respect to your characterization of my position you are grossly off the mark. What has the GM accomplished over the past three years (not counting his first year because of Krueger's influence in hockey operations)? The GM has rebuilt the front office, the scouting department, the analytical department and selected the current HC to guide the young roster. By any common-sense measure that's a success. The team gained 16 points from the previous year with one of the youngest rosters in the league. By any common-sense measure that's a success. Our farm system is acknowledged to be one of the best in the league. That's a success. The characterization that I'm a fanatical fawning fan of this current GM because I'm a biased hometown fan is way off the mark. I'm basing my opinion on performance. You don't get to being a top tier team without going through the hard steps of getting better. And that's exactly the process that this franchise is undergoing.  It can't be questioned that much has been accomplished in a relatively short period of time. Obviously, more needs to be done. 

My expectation is that the Sabres will be a playoff team this season. It's the same expectation that the organization and most fair-minded fans of this team have. That's not based on blindness as it is based on realism. 

The only common sense measurement of success that I consider universally accepted is winning.  By that common sense measurement, the jury had not yet been charged, let alone returned a verdict.

And no, your expectation is based on faith, not realism.  And that is 100% OK , but don’t mischaracterize it.  Realism would be expressing that a 1 yr trend is not a trend, and that the playoffs are still a hope, not an expectation based on data or history.

I know this line of discussion makes it sound like I am pessimistic.  I’m actually not, with the caveat that it depends on Levi being a stone cold success. I like the direction, I like the 2 d men they brought in.  I like how they finished the season and think it is reasonable that it continues come October.

But KA hasn’t done enough to better ensure it.  Like I said earlier though, I won’t judge him in the preseason.  I’ll judge him when the last 16 teams are playing.  Prior to that, you can’t really determine success, or failure for that matter.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Weave

[sabresparaavida]

16 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Of course they'll be fine with it. That's the nature of fans and sycophants.

My big beef is Adams not even trying to push the team over thr top last season and continuing to slow roll things this summer. He's taking advantage of a situation.

Not even trying? He added Stillman and Greenway at the trade line, and it was widely reported that he went after Chychurn, willing to part with a first for him.  
He tried to push the team into the playoffs last season, but he wasn’t willing to do that at any cost, which was the right decision. Even if we added Chychurn and squeaked into the playoffs, we’d have been unlikely to beat any of the Bruins in round 1, the leafs in round 2, Carolina in round 3, or Vegas in the cup. 

[Crusader1969]

4 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Hint #1.  defenceman 

Hint #2.   Drafted 7th round in 2012.  Played 5 regular season games with Sabres  and over 140 with Rochester 

[Crusader1969]

NHL.com team preview.    Trigger alert.   For those who get triggered when you hear others showing optimism in regards to the coming season  - All 3 of the writers have the Sabres in the playoffs( 2 of them written in Sharpie)  , so Watch at your own discretion 

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/buffalo-sabres-season-preview/t-277350912/c-18230556

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

The only common sense measurement of success that I consider universally accepted is winning.  By that common sense measurement, the jury had not yet been charged, let alone returned a verdict.

And no, your expectation is based on faith, not realism.  And that is 100% OK , but don’t mischaracterize it.  Realism would be expressing that a 1 yr trend is not a trend, and that the playoffs are still a hope, not an expectation based on data or history.

I know this line of discussion makes it sound like I am pessimistic.  I’m actually not, with the caveat that it depends on Levi being a stone cold success. I like the direction, I like the 2 d men they brought in.  I like how they finished the season and think it is reasonable that it continues come October.

But KA hasn’t done enough to better ensure it.  Like I said earlier though, I won’t judge him in the preseason.  I’ll judge him when the last 16 teams are playing.  Prior to that, you can’t really determine success, or failure for that matter.

The Sabres had a winning record last season, 42-33-7. And they accomplished that winning record with one of the youngest rosters in the league. We are going in circles and the discussion is not productive. We simply have different perspectives.

A few years ago, the Sabres were one of the worst teams in the league and were an irrelevant NHL franchise. And to make things even worse we were a boring team. That's not the case now. There's a process to getting better and becoming a serious team. It's not automatic and takes time. As far as I'm concerned, the GM is one year ahead of the schedule that I thought it would take to rebuild this ramshackle franchise and make it a factor in the league. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

59 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

NHL.com team preview.    Trigger alert.   For those who get triggered when you hear others showing optimism in regards to the coming season  - All 3 of the writers have the Sabres in the playoffs( 2 of them written in Sharpie)  , so Watch at your own discretion 

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/buffalo-sabres-season-preview/t-277350912/c-18230556

3 fat guys talking about the Sabres and all with high praise.  That's great.