Sens sign Tarasenko 1 year $5 million...

[Zamboni]

Is it a possibility Tarasenko absolutely didn’t want to come to Buffalo? Is it a possibility KA had a discussion with his agent? 

🤔

[TheAud]

7 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Is it a possibility Tarasenko absolutely didn’t want to come to Buffalo? Is it a possibility KA had a discussion with his agent? 

🤔

Ummm…yes? 
 

[Doohicksie]

50 minutes ago, TheAud said:

But I would go for the upside and experience on a 1-year bet.

Kinda like the Sabres did with Taylor Hall, eh?

It's all speculative anyway, but I just don't see him as a huge upgrade.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Signing Clifton will be a large upgrade no matter how you slice it.

He's only 5'10"

Ottawa and Detroit made more FA moves than we did. They made a few I would have made for us, but of course maybe those players were offered contracts but said no thank you. We will never know as Adams saying that publicly would look bad for the team going forward. If he chose to not make those moves when he could have and either of those teams makes the playoffs and we do not, then it's on him for sure. 

I personally do not think he did enough. At the moment, I think Ottawa is more likely to make the playoffs than we are, but of course neither team is deep so any rash of injuries will sideline either. Same for Detroit. Who knows, maybe he fully recovers and we add Patrick Kane in the fall/winter. Maybe not. 

(In all seriousness though Cliffy is an upgrade over everybody we had last year after the top 3. He should make a good partner for Power)

[Huckleberry]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

He's only 5'10"

Ottawa and Detroit made more FA moves than we did. They made a few I would have made for us, but of course maybe those players were offered contracts but said no thank you. We will never know as Adams saying that publicly would look bad for the team going forward. If he chose to not make those moves when he could have and either of those teams makes the playoffs and we do not, then it's on him for sure. 

I personally do not think he did enough. At the moment, I think Ottawa is more likely to make the playoffs than we are, but of course neither team is deep so any rash of injuries will sideline either. Same for Detroit. Who knows, maybe he fully recovers and we add Patrick Kane in the fall/winter. Maybe not. 

(In all seriousness though Cliffy is an upgrade over everybody we had last year after the top 3. He should make a good partner for Power)

This is like 2022 summer all over again and where did they end up ? Only thing I liked from both summers was adding debrincat.

[Zamboni]

25 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

This is like 2022 summer all over again and where did they end up ? Only thing I liked from both summers was adding debrincat.

And the false correlation that signing more FA = more serious about winning games. Or doing the smart/right thing. 😂

[tom webster]

11 hours ago, matter2003 said:

I don't necessarily agree with this. I think he stands pat because years of empirical data show that most free agent signings are not good value for the money and the teams would probably have been better drafting and developing and signing lower priced FAs to fill roles.

When you just promoted 6-7 very highly rated prospects to your NHL roster and you STILL have the #1 rated prospect pool in the NHL why wouldn't you stick to what you are doing?

Most people agree that signing expensive, older free agents isn’t the way to go. What I’m advocating is trading some of these prospects to fill holes to speed up the process. To be clear, I’m talking about two or three piece’s depending on how some of the players develop. Their cap space advantage will go away after this year as the cap corrects itself. This off-season was the time to be aggressive.

 

[sabresparaavida]

11 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Most people agree that signing expensive, older free agents isn’t the way to go. What I’m advocating is trading some of these prospects to fill holes to speed up the process. To be clear, I’m talking about two or three piece’s depending on how some of the players develop. Their cap space advantage will go away after this year as the cap corrects itself. This off-season was the time to be aggressive.

 

out of curiosity, what holes would you like filled, and who are the players you’d like to explore trading for?

[DarthEbriate]

9 hours ago, TheAud said:

At $5M for 1 year I’d have liked to see Tarasenko replace Quinn while he’s out and GMKA could have offered a team to 4th round pick to take VO off the roster. So there would effectively be zero incremental cap hit but the team would be upgraded this season.

I agree Tarasenko would've been an excellent fill-in for Quinn.

But if I'm Tarasenko, why would I go to a team where my playing time is going to be significantly cut at New Year's if all goes according to plan? He chose Ottawa because DeBrincat is gone; if DeBrincat is coming back halfway through the year Tarasenko likely goes elsewhere.

For him, this season is a "get top minutes" on a hopeful team and then next season when some contender caps shuffle (Boston) or the cap goes up, go take either one final good contract with term or start hunting for mid-/bottom- six jobs on contenders to pad the trophy case and legacy.

[Pimlach]

18 hours ago, Weave said:

Not couldn’t.  Didn’t.

As you’ve stated above, the price was too steep, he’s valuing his prospects to high, he didn’t get value.

Not making the playoffs this season should be a fireable offense.  Full stop.

But Terry is apparently on board with Adams and the pace, so he could miss the playoffs again and still get another year.  
 

Terry sees Adams as a guy who will do what he wants,  just like he did with Boterill until he would not.   I would be shocked if was fired.  It would likely mean that Adams and he were no longer lock step. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Pimlach

[Curt]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

This is like 2022 summer all over again and where did they end up ? Only thing I liked from both summers was adding debrincat.

Losing Norris for 74 games was a big blow for them last season.  They didn’t have their 1C coming off a 35 goal season for basically the whole season.

Also, Chychrun.  They added him but he only played 12 games for them.  Hard to imagine he will play close to a full season, but I’d imagine they will have him for 50 games this season.

So they are also adding a top 6 C and a top-4 D to their lineup, and they should get continued development improvements from some young guys.  They should be improved over last season..

[PromoTheRobot]

14 hours ago, tom webster said:

Again, all these pats on the back for him standing pat with his plan flies in the face of what I know to be true. He has tried, and failed to improve the team this off-season. Players have refused to wave, he has placed a higher value on his prospects, teams have asked for more then he perceives as value, other teams paid more then he wanted.

Bottom line, if the team enters this season as currently constituted, it won’t be because Kevyn wanted it that way, it will be because he couldn’t make anything happen. 
Don’t get me wrong. This doesn’t necessarily mean they will fail. Some of the best deals teams persue are ones they don’t complete. It just means that he knows this team needs improvement but hasn’t been able to address it.

How can you love your own players too much while failing to trade them for better players? If you don't think your prospects are that good, then how do you expect to get better players in trade? Don't other GMs know what you have?

[PromoTheRobot]

32 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

But Terry is apparently on board with Adams and the pace, so he could miss the playoffs again and still get another year.  
 

Terry sees Adams as a guy who will do what he wants,  just like he did with Boterill until he would not.   I would be shocked if was fired.  I would likely mean that Adams and he were no longer lock step. 

Such nonsense.

 

13 hours ago, Weave said:

Not couldn’t.  Didn’t.

As you’ve stated above, the price was too steep, he’s valuing his prospects to high, he didn’t get value.

Not making the playoffs this season should be a fireable offense.  Full stop.

Prepare to be disappointed. No one is getting fired.

Edited July 28, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[mjd1001]

Not too worried about Ottawa getting him and in no way did I want the Sabres to make a play for him:

-He's been injured a good ammount lately, and he's going to be 32 years old this year.

-Over the past 4 seasons he has scored at an 27 goal pace (79th in the league in terms of goals per game). He could have one good year left, but he is no longer an elite scorer at 79th in the league in GPP and with his age/injuries likely to get worse).  Last year he had 18 goals in 69 games in a league where scoring is going up. Again, not even close to what he used to be.

-Wouldn't really fit on this team.

So hes not BAD, just to me not a good fit on the Sabres and he can/might help Ottawa as a 2nd line player and a PP guy, but I don't see him making a huge impact for them.

A one year deal, however, is a good deal for Ottawa to get him on.

We already have our version of Tarasenko. His name is Olofsson.  Tarasenko is pretty poor defensively, the advanced stats someone posted about him show it, and the 'eye test' shows he really doesn't put much effort in his own end. So he's not much (if any) better than VO there. Last year VO had almost double the goals per 60 as Tarasenko 5 vs 5, more overall goals, more goals per game. Over the past 4  years, VO has more total goals and they are virtually matched in goals per game.  So Ottawa just signed a more experienced, but older version of VO.

Edited July 28, 2023 by mjd1001

[Pimlach]

15 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Such nonsense.

 

What is nonsense about it?    Rather than tossing an insult, tell me what you think.  
 

I think that even if the Sabres miss the playoffs, Adams job is still safe.   Unless he decides to go in a different direction from Terrys wishes he is safe.  

This is exactly what happened with JBot.  It was weeks after he was given a  public vote of confidence that he got fired for not being willing to make the cuts that Terry requested   
 

Go ahead Promo, tell me what is nonsense about this?   

 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, Pimlach said:

What is nonsense about it?    Rather than tossing an insult, tell me what you think.  
 

I think that even if the Sabres miss the playoffs, Adams job is still safe.   Unless he decides to go in a different direction from Terrys wishes he is safe.  

This is exactly what happened with JBot.  It was weeks after he was given a  public vote of confidence that he got fired for not being willing to make the cuts that Terry requested   
 

Go ahead Promo, tell me what is nonsense about this?   

 

The nonsense is this need to be right all along about Adams, Granato and Pegula. Despite the improvements this team has seen, and it's prospect pool, some people still feel it's all a mirage and can't wait for the house of cards to collapse.

[Buffalonill]

I'm still waiting for Buffalo to replace jack Quinn with someone that can get you 20 -25g.

 

[Taro T]

40 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

I'm still waiting for Buffalo to replace jack Quinn with someone that can get you 20 -25g.

 

You're in luck.  They've done that for the 1st 30 or so games this season.  😉

After that, well, who knows?

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

I'm still waiting for Buffalo to replace jack Quinn with someone that can get you 20 -25g.

 

So so far:

Line 1:  Tuch, Thompson, Skinner

Line 4:  Okposo, Girgs, Jost

Line 2:  Cozens, Peterka "Quinn replacement"

Line 3: Greenway, Mitts, Krebs

The "Quinn replacement" comes down to a competition between:   Olofsson, Rousek Kulich, Savoi, Rosen, Murray, Biro, Weissbach...am I forgetting someone?

I think its Olofsson.  Or you could move Mitts or Krebs up a line and the "Quinn replacement" could come from the other line....some candidates as above.

If you move VO before the season, you could very well want to take a look at one of the other prospects anyway, and this gives you an option to do so.

Anyway, If there are further injuries there will be an issue, but without further major injuries, I'm perfectly happy with Quinn's replacement coming from the current roster/candidates.

[FrenchConnection44]

14 hours ago, tom webster said:

But valuations aren’t an exact science. The Rangers valuation of prospects has proven wrong. Players they felt were untouchable during the Eichel negotiations may not even sniff the NHL. Even if Adams is right about the quality of his prospects, is refusing to upgrade the roster by trading guys who may never impact the NHL roster prudent? Only time will tell.

It is true that teams often over-value prospects. But it's hard to say. It all depends on the player for whom they are trading. 

If a player Adams' wants to trade for is a borderline top 4 D or borderline top 6 forward or a goalie who would barely be an upgrade, then he shouldn't give up a top tier prospect like Kulich. It all comes down, imo, to the player for whom we would be trading. And it also depends on the long term prospects of the player for whom we trade. Is it a one year loaner? Or a guy who will be here for the next 6 years? And there are variables out of his control. Frankly, some cities and franchises have greater appeal to certain players than others. New York, LA, Chicago, Nashville, even Raleigh, et al have significant appeal. 

 

13 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

I don’t think Adams is completely set against trading his prospects, it just has to do more with timing. The Sabres have a good shot at the playoffs next season, and I believe Kevyn Adams expects this team to make it. I also believe, as I’m sure Kevyn Adams does, that this team has a very slim chance at the cup, and the chances would still be very slim this year almost regardless who this team brings in. The team has nearly no playoff experience. We also haven’t seen consistent good defensive play, which spells for big trouble come playoff time. If we had the splashiest offseason, it might move us from a 2%chance to a 3% chance of winning the cup. Unless there are good, cost controlled assets with some term available, sending out prospects right now doesn’t make a ton of sense. This could change if we breakout  like New Jersey did last year, and maybe it makes sense for some moves mid-season, but right now, the long term plan still looks like the better priority.

I agree with this. I'm more patient with Adams than some fans on here because he has done really well, imo, accumulating talent. I don't want to sell out just to squeeze into the playoffs and lose. Nor do I want to switch gears with an entirely new GM who goes in a different direction. I've been following this team since 1970 and some heartbreaking losses ('75 and '99 in particular). But I haven't felt this positive in a long time. This team has some elements that remind me of the early 70's Sabres teams (high scoring talented forwards; added a couple of young defensemen; and a veteran). 

I do have hopes for a playoff appearance but not a big run there - as long as we are healthy.  Adams also needs to get Dahlin and Power under new deals. That too is crucial. 

I am more concerned about having a strong team for 4-5 plus years to make a consistent run in the playoffs a-la Tampa Bay. I really like what they've done and how they've done it. They had a losing record in 2012-13; but had strong youth similar to Buffalo - though they had a solid vet goaltender in Ben Bishop in those early years - a key difference between them and us at this stage - and built a strong playoff run: 9 out of the last 10 years; played in the Finals 4x; 2 Cups. 

But their losing team in 2012-13 was not too different in its core than Buffalo is right now. A young goalie with potential - it took him 4 years from his draft (3 yrs at the NHL level) to become their true #1 starter. In their first playoff year (13-14) - they were swept 4-0 in the first round. But their core, Hedman, Stamkos, Johnson, Gudas, were each 23; Palat was 22; Kucherov wasn't yet a star and was 20. Vasilevskiy was 19 and not on the roster til the following year. And then they added other young players from their system (Cirelli; Point; etc.).

That's the kind of run I want to see from this team and the young talent is there (as opposed to trying to patch together a mixture that won't last just to get into the playoffs). Much of it will come down to the goaltending play. Of course, you need veterans to mix in and make the right trades at the right time. Hopefully, that will come. But this is not, imo, a Cup-winning roster - yet. Not all the prospects in Buffalo's system will make it. But the quantity and quality are such that I feel pretty confident that there are 3-4-5 who will be very good players and fit in nicely on the roster in the next 2-5 seasons. 

So I'm for Adams remaining on for at least two if not 10 more years. If goaltending holds up the core of this team has the potential to be strong for 8-10 years. And hopefully, other veterans (maybe a goalie to split time with Levi) will see the potential of winning a cup and come our way. 

 

 

[FrenchConnection44]

40 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

So so far:

Line 1:  Tuch, Thompson, Skinner

Line 4:  Okposo, Girgs, Jost

Line 2:  Cozens, Peterka "Quinn replacement"

Line 3: Greenway, Mitts, Krebs

The "Quinn replacement" comes down to a competition between:   Olofsson, Rousek Kulich, Savoi, Rosen, Murray, Biro, Weissbach...am I forgetting someone?

I think its Olofsson.  Or you could move Mitts or Krebs up a line and the "Quinn replacement" could come from the other line....some candidates as above.

If you move VO before the season, you could very well want to take a look at one of the other prospects anyway, and this gives you an option to do so.

Anyway, If there are further injuries there will be an issue, but without further major injuries, I'm perfectly happy with Quinn's replacement coming from the current roster/candidates.

I like that fwd breakdown. Makes sense. And like that competition between Olafsson and the younger guys. Who knows ... a lightbulb may go on for Olafsson playing defense. It may be that's all we plan to do to replace Quinn. 

That said, there are still a couple of names out there ... Tatar and Suter ... I would prefer Tatar to Tarasenko anyway. Either would be ideal 1 year fill ins for Quinn and we would not have to give away a prospect. And it may be we have offers to both on the table. ??

But we do want to get Dahlin and Power in as bigger priorities, long term, imo. 

 

[Stoner]

4 hours ago, Pimlach said:

But Terry is apparently on board with Adams and the pace, so he could miss the playoffs again and still get another year.  
 

Terry sees Adams as a guy who will do what he wants,  just like he did with Boterill until he would not.   I would be shocked if was fired.  I would likely mean that Adams and he were no longer lock step. 

This got a Cup emojidoodie even before I saw PTR hated it. We now need the Cup to be full of pastries and firecrackers and the Holy Bible.

This is spot on. When you're a former rink manager or whatever, you're not the one making the calls.

The Sabres circa summer 23 are exactly where the owner wants them.

[Buffalonill]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

You're in luck.  They've done that for the 1st 30 or so games this season.  😉

After that, well, who knows?

I think Some fans Are undervaluing what quinn was gonna bring this year.

He was gonna go off.

Now we have to wait a full year for him to fully recover 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Buffalonill

[PromoTheRobot]

17 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

This got a Cup emojidoodie even before I saw PTR hated it. We now need the Cup to be full of pastries and firecrackers and the Holy Bible.

This is spot on. When you're a former rink manager or whatever, you're not the one making the calls.

The Sabres circa summer 23 are exactly where the owner wants them.

I rest my case.

[matter2003]

7 hours ago, tom webster said:

Most people agree that signing expensive, older free agents isn’t the way to go. What I’m advocating is trading some of these prospects to fill holes to speed up the process. To be clear, I’m talking about two or three piece’s depending on how some of the players develop. Their cap space advantage will go away after this year as the cap corrects itself. This off-season was the time to be aggressive.

 

We just watched Murray try this and fall flat on his face which led to needing another rebuild since all the prospects were gone and he had nothing left in the cupboards...

 

19 hours ago, Thorny said:

Again, this is sort of my point.

If Kevyn *already* had a predisposition to “doing what he’s been doing”, the more the market gets inflated by teams looking to make something happen, the LESS likely KA finds that odd move that meets his exact value requirements, no?

Fair enough and he has the talent coming up where he doesn't feel the need to.