OT: Employment Interviews in the post covid 2020's

[Scottysabres]

Disclaimer: This isn't a complaint session, merely observations that lead to some humor, at least, for myself.

Laid off Dec. 22nd, I started interviews mid June, after my mum passed from cancer. I've been through 17 interviews to date. Here's my take so far.

52 yrs old, every interviewer to date, from Borthtowns to Southtowns and east burbs all pointed at my age during the interviews as possibly problematic.

When initial phone interviews were done, in my field (industrial electrical) there's a test of skills, be it written or verbal via over the internet or on the phone.

Now, here's where it gets humorous. After being told my age is problematic, 15 of the 17 companies called me back following their search for a qualified individual. Many of them stating I was the most qualified applicant by far (25+ yrs in field you tend to accumulate a great deal of knowledge). But the age thing seems to persist, with many TAT's (Talent Aquustion Team) asking if I know of some younger individuals in my trade that are looking for work. I oblige them an answer and tell them the skilled trades have seen a reduction in interest over the last 30 years.

Now here is the real humor, in each follow up call, they establish they'd like me to come in for a plant walk through and to offer a position. I kindly tell them I will do the walk through but will not make a decision until I've completed a thorough interview process of all 17 of my current offers, and that list grows by the day.

You should hear the call backs and/or final in-person interviews. All of a sudden, age isn't problematic, as I've had multiple potentials, especially non-union (no contracts to adhere to) up their pay offers or paid time off scenarios. It really is humorous how fast they change their tune lol.

[inkman]

14 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Disclaimer: This isn't a complaint session, merely observations that lead to some humor, at least, for myself.

Laid off Dec. 22nd, I started interviews mid June, after my mum passed from cancer. I've been through 17 interviews to date. Here's my take so far.

52 yrs old, every interviewer to date, from Borthtowns to Southtowns and east burbs all pointed at my age during the interviews as possibly problematic.

When initial phone interviews were done, in my field (industrial electrical) there's a test of skills, be it written or verbal via over the internet or on the phone.

Now, here's where it gets humorous. After being told my age is problematic, 15 of the 17 companies called me back following their search for a qualified individual. Many of them stating I was the most qualified applicant by far (25+ yrs in field you tend to accumulate a great deal of knowledge). But the age thing seems to persist, with many TAT's (Talent Aquustion Team) asking if I know of some younger individuals in my trade that are looking for work. I oblige them an answer and tell them the skilled trades have seen a reduction in interest over the last 30 years.

Now here is the real humor, in each follow up call, they establish they'd like me to come in for a plant walk through and to offer a position. I kindly tell them I will do the walk through but will not make a decision until I've completed a thorough interview process of all 17 of my current offers, and that list grows by the day.

You should hear the call backs and/or final in-person interviews. All of a sudden, age isn't problematic, as I've had multiple potentials, especially non-union (no contracts to adhere to) up their pay offers or paid time off scenarios. It really is humorous how fast they change their tune lol.

I’ve only worked for 2 companies the last 25 years.  Both were very clear about not citing age at all ever during any interview process.  I can’t believe that many companies were that transparent about your age.  As someone who interviews a lot of people, I may take note of someone age but it’s almost always older=better based on my experiences. (And theirs!!) It would seem all those companies have opened themselves up to age discrimination lawsuits from the get go.  Weird.  

[Scottysabres]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

I’ve only worked for 2 companies the last 25 years.  Both were very clear about not citing age at all ever during any interview process.  I can’t believe that many companies were that transparent about your age.  As someone who interviews a lot of people, I may take note of someone age but it’s almost always older=better based on my experiences. (And theirs!!) It would seem all those companies have opened themselves up to age discrimination lawsuits from the get go.  Weird.  

In the interest of full transparency, they weren't implying their concerns on longevity with the company (although, I suspect some had that view). They were directing their concerns based on ability to do the work. I.E. climb on equipment, ladders, etc. Etc.

I don't want to mislead, I should have been more detailed in that aspect. In any event, I have found myself chuckling at times as I have raport with many interviewers.

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Disclaimer: This isn't a complaint session, merely observations that lead to some humor, at least, for myself.

Laid off Dec. 22nd, I started interviews mid June, after my mum passed from cancer. I've been through 17 interviews to date. Here's my take so far.

52 yrs old, every interviewer to date, from Borthtowns to Southtowns and east burbs all pointed at my age during the interviews as possibly problematic.

When initial phone interviews were done, in my field (industrial electrical) there's a test of skills, be it written or verbal via over the internet or on the phone.

Now, here's where it gets humorous. After being told my age is problematic, 15 of the 17 companies called me back following their search for a qualified individual. Many of them stating I was the most qualified applicant by far (25+ yrs in field you tend to accumulate a great deal of knowledge). But the age thing seems to persist, with many TAT's (Talent Aquustion Team) asking if I know of some younger individuals in my trade that are looking for work. I oblige them an answer and tell them the skilled trades have seen a reduction in interest over the last 30 years.

Now here is the real humor, in each follow up call, they establish they'd like me to come in for a plant walk through and to offer a position. I kindly tell them I will do the walk through but will not make a decision until I've completed a thorough interview process of all 17 of my current offers, and that list grows by the day.

You should hear the call backs and/or final in-person interviews. All of a sudden, age isn't problematic, as I've had multiple potentials, especially non-union (no contracts to adhere to) up their pay offers or paid time off scenarios. It really is humorous how fast they change their tune lol.

What's self-defeating about your example of blatant age discrimination is the reality that for the most part younger workers don't have loyalty to the companies they work for. If there is a better opportunity while employed, the employee will move on. I'm not making a criticism because it is a rational adjustment to the current employer/employee relationship. The disposable worker realizes their vulnerable situation and accordingly adjust by pursuing their individual interest. The irony is that it is more probable than not that you, as an older worker, would do a better job and would end up staying longer than the younger worker. As you demonstrate that discrimination comes in many forms. In the end it works against the discriminator. Good luck to you. 

[tom webster]

10 minutes ago, inkman said:

I’ve only worked for 2 companies the last 25 years.  Both were very clear about not citing age at all ever during any interview process.  I can’t believe that many companies were that transparent about your age.  As someone who interviews a lot of people, I may take note of someone age but it’s almost always older=better based on my experiences. (And theirs!!) It would seem all those companies have opened themselves up to age discrimination lawsuits from the get go.  Weird.  

This pretty much sums up my feelings.

[MattPie]

Talking about age in a interview is possibly illegal under the Equal Employment Opportunity Act (EEOA); most won't because it sets them up for age-discrimination complaints.

[Weave]

I’ve been through a few job searches over the last decade.  I am now on the backside of my 50’s.  My most recent search was about 18mo ago.  I have never had an employer even tangentially suggest age related concerns.  That is a serious legal line those employers are crossing.

And Inky, I’ve done my share of interviewing as well.  I would never even consider putting approximate age in my interview notes.  That could go sideways on you at some point.

[Doohicksie]

57 minutes ago, inkman said:

It would seem all those companies have opened themselves up to age discrimination lawsuits from the get go.

Yeah, that jumped right out at me.  I had one internal interview for a promotion at my current company (on a different team) during the pandemic.  It was Skype with cameras.  One of the senior managers was basically wearing a housecoat and had her hair up in rollers!  I had professional attire including tie for the interview.  (I didn't get the offer but did get promoted a few months later on my current team which I preferred anyway.  My boss's organization is growing and so is the support I provide to him so he was able to justify a rare promotion in place for a senior position.)

I'm getting more aware of the age thing, having turned 60 last year.  Things look good for me to hang out here for another 5 years.  I would hate to have to look for another job at my age.

39 minutes ago, MattPie said:

Talking about age in a interview is possibly illegal under the Equal Employment Opportunity Act (EEOA); most won't because it sets them up for age-discrimination complaints.

Yeah, I've been through that training too.

[inkman]

15 minutes ago, Weave said:

I’ve been through a few job searches over the last decade.  I am now on the backside of my 50’s.  My most recent search was about 18mo ago.  I have never had an employer even tangentially suggest age related concerns.  That is a serious legal line those employers are crossing.

And Inky, I’ve done my share of interviewing as well.  I would never even consider putting approximate age in my interview notes.  That could go sideways on you at some point.

Yeah I don’t record anyone’s age.  Just experience.  They usually go hand in hand. 

[That Aud Smell]

ADEA was passed in the late 60's and these companies are just repeatedly citing your age as an obstacle to hiring?

I mean, FFS.

It's gracious of you to frame is as a duty-related inquiry. But it's effing unlawful. And has been since before you were born.

I'm also glad to hear that the turntables have turned (shoutout Michael Scott) and that the dynamic is shifting in your favour. No surprise there, as employers in our region are just hurting for qualified people in skilled positions like yours. Stupid on their part not to understand that dynamic.

[North Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Disclaimer: This isn't a complaint session, merely observations that lead to some humor, at least, for myself.

Laid off Dec. 22nd, I started interviews mid June, after my mum passed from cancer. I've been through 17 interviews to date. Here's my take so far.

52 yrs old, every interviewer to date, from Borthtowns to Southtowns and east burbs all pointed at my age during the interviews as possibly problematic.

When initial phone interviews were done, in my field (industrial electrical) there's a test of skills, be it written or verbal via over the internet or on the phone.

Now, here's where it gets humorous. After being told my age is problematic, 15 of the 17 companies called me back following their search for a qualified individual. Many of them stating I was the most qualified applicant by far (25+ yrs in field you tend to accumulate a great deal of knowledge). But the age thing seems to persist, with many TAT's (Talent Aquustion Team) asking if I know of some younger individuals in my trade that are looking for work. I oblige them an answer and tell them the skilled trades have seen a reduction in interest over the last 30 years.

Now here is the real humor, in each follow up call, they establish they'd like me to come in for a plant walk through and to offer a position. I kindly tell them I will do the walk through but will not make a decision until I've completed a thorough interview process of all 17 of my current offers, and that list grows by the day.

You should hear the call backs and/or final in-person interviews. All of a sudden, age isn't problematic, as I've had multiple potentials, especially non-union (no contracts to adhere to) up their pay offers or paid time off scenarios. It really is humorous how fast they change their tune lol.

Curious on the non union thing, Im in the healthcare industry and turn 60 in another year... hit 10 years in the union and trying to decide the +- about higher pay v benefits. I could go on my wife's insurance but it isnt as good... ps I also will receive a fed pension.

[Scottysabres]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

ADEA was passed in the late 60's and these companies are just repeatedly citing your age as an obstacle to hiring?

I mean, FFS.

It's gracious of you to frame is as a duty-related inquiry. But it's effing unlawful. And has been since before you were born.

I'm also glad to hear that the turntables have turned (shoutout Michael Scott) and that the dynamic is shifting in your favour. No surprise there, as employers in our region are just hurting for qualified people in skilled positions like yours. Stupid on their part not to understand that dynamic.

I have seen over the last couple of decades a real tangible vacuum in many of the skilled trades. Especially in my field, instrumentation and electrical (I&E).

For example, PLC's, there are a good number of what youth there is in my field with 2 year degrees for ladder logic programming, yet, they have 0, and I truly do mean 0, actual instrumentation or electrical, especially mechanical electrical (i.e. installing raceways for wire, gaging proper material needs, etc. etc.) as well as they are missing much of the theory application side.

Not that there is anything wrong with educating yourself, but PLC's go hand in hand with nearly all facets of industrial electrical, from power plants on down to an overwhelming number of production facilities. I've had more than my share of apprentices who already had the degree, but get frustrated when they run into the "real world applications" of the entirety of the trade. It really is fascinating.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Scottysabres

[Scottysabres]

Just now, North Buffalo said:

Curious on the non union thing, Im in the healthcare industry and turn 60 in another year... hit 10 years in the union and trying to decide the +- about higher pay v benefits. I could go on my wife's insurance but it isnt as good... ps I also will receive a fed pension.

I've worked both over my time in trade. I am indifferent to it to be honest. Most unions don't have the teeth they once had, and I've always been one to chart my own destiny in trade, goal driven of course. But there are merits to job security. I just happen to be fortunate to of been born and raised in WNY, where work ethic isn't merely words spoken, it truly is the backbone of who we are in this region. And that alone has paid a lifetime of dividens for myself in career field.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Disclaimer: This isn't a complaint session, merely observations that lead to some humor, at least, for myself.

Laid off Dec. 22nd, I started interviews mid June, after my mum passed from cancer. I've been through 17 interviews to date. Here's my take so far.

52 yrs old, every interviewer to date, from Borthtowns to Southtowns and east burbs all pointed at my age during the interviews as possibly problematic.

When initial phone interviews were done, in my field (industrial electrical) there's a test of skills, be it written or verbal via over the internet or on the phone.

Now, here's where it gets humorous. After being told my age is problematic, 15 of the 17 companies called me back following their search for a qualified individual. Many of them stating I was the most qualified applicant by far (25+ yrs in field you tend to accumulate a great deal of knowledge). But the age thing seems to persist, with many TAT's (Talent Aquustion Team) asking if I know of some younger individuals in my trade that are looking for work. I oblige them an answer and tell them the skilled trades have seen a reduction in interest over the last 30 years.

Now here is the real humor, in each follow up call, they establish they'd like me to come in for a plant walk through and to offer a position. I kindly tell them I will do the walk through but will not make a decision until I've completed a thorough interview process of all 17 of my current offers, and that list grows by the day.

You should hear the call backs and/or final in-person interviews. All of a sudden, age isn't problematic, as I've had multiple potentials, especially non-union (no contracts to adhere to) up their pay offers or paid time off scenarios. It really is humorous how fast they change their tune lol.

See if you can get someone to write down that your age is a reason you're not being hired, then get a good lawyer.

[PromoTheRobot]

I struck out on my own at 44 when I left my last job 20 years ago. I worked in broadcasting and I knew the field was circling the drain, even then, and I'd never make a living wage again. I don't know what your skills are but if you can go the contractor/consultant route, consider it.

[Scottysabres]

15 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

See if you can get someone to write down that your age is a reason you're not being hired, then get a good lawyer.

I didn't deem any of the conversations as anti-age, more in line with an "are you physically capable" question. Many positions in my field expose you to a variety of physical requirements, working sustained in prolonged high heat exposure while on or inside of equipment as an example. I merely suspected the interviewers intentions of career longevity vs company desired employee given the tone of the conversation.

11 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I struck out on my own at 44 when I left my last job 20 years ago. I worked in broadcasting and I knew the field was circling the drain, even then, and I'd never make a living wage again. I don't know what your skills are but if you can go the contractor/consultant route, consider it.

I have thought about it. But I know so many that have done it, and that is nationwide as I traveled extensively for a couple of decades, so I have a great deal of peer networking and friendships. For every one I know of succeeding or holding their own currently, I know 6 or 7 for each one of them that didn't make it. Not that those numbers sway me heavily, but I'm in the last leg of my career run, I'm just not interested in my own show. Ohhhh if I had the experience and knowledge I have now 20 years ago.......

[matter2003]

I would contact an attorney since these companies are willfully violating Labor Laws and the Age Discrimination Employment Act(ADEA)

[Marvin]

For years, I have been recommending to people's kids that if they are not going into STEM or something with a nearly guaranteed way of paying off their student loans, then they should take up a trade.  Things like plumbing, electricity, heating, and housing are not going away any time soon.

[Scottysabres]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

For years, I have been recommending to people's kids that if they are not going into STEM or something with a nearly guaranteed way of paying off their student loans, then they should take up a trade.  Things like plumbing, electricity, heating, and housing are not going away any time soon.

My mentor got his Masters degree in Electrical Engineering and never took out a loan, paid as he went.

For context, my Mentor is my age, 52, we worked together for the first time on the Lakeside Power Plant, Levi, Utah. That was in 05. He was 2 yrs in to schooling when I met him. He finished up his Masters in 2016. Yes, 11 yrs, but we could make 100k+ a year with the hours and only work 8 to 10 months. 

I always smirk when I hear all the hoopla around student loans. I literally don't know anyone in my personal life who took out loans. Every one of them worked, banked, paid, rinse and repeat per semester. And I know many who have degrees.

[gilbert11]

10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Yeah, that jumped right out at me.  I had one internal interview for a promotion at my current company (on a different team) during the pandemic.  It was Skype with cameras.  One of the senior managers was basically wearing a housecoat and had her hair up in rollers!  I had professional attire including tie for the interview.  (I didn't get the offer but did get promoted a few months later on my current team which I preferred anyway.  My boss's organization is growing and so is the support I provide to him so he was able to justify a rare promotion in place for a senior position.)

I'm getting more aware of the age thing, having turned 60 last year.  Things look good for me to hang out here for another 5 years.  I would hate to have to look for another job at my age.

Yeah, I've been through that training too.

I was laid off a few years ago, in my late 50s, with nearly 20 years of experience in the Software QA field.  When I had no nibbles in 6 months, I decided to retire.  My resume was tailored to only reflect that recent experience so they possibly figured I was at least in my mid 40s.  That field generally looks for younger people privy to the new technologies.

[Wyldnwoody44]

All I know is that people in suits are the enemy to me. So any corporate speak is just some of the worst stuff I can ever listen to. 

This coming from a health care worker in the trenches, so obviously biased in that regard. 

Bringing up age really is peculiar, in this climate where everyone is offended by everything, they're taking a big chance in throwing that out there. Maybe it's a test to see if that offends you. Some of these companies do some crazy phsyco analyzing during interviews these days. 

[Weave]

9 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

My mentor got his Masters degree in Electrical Engineering and never took out a loan, paid as he went.

For context, my Mentor is my age, 52, we worked together for the first time on the Lakeside Power Plant, Levi, Utah. That was in 05. He was 2 yrs in to schooling when I met him. He finished up his Masters in 2016. Yes, 11 yrs, but we could make 100k+ a year with the hours and only work 8 to 10 months. 

I always smirk when I hear all the hoopla around student loans. I literally don't know anyone in my personal life who took out loans. Every one of them worked, banked, paid, rinse and repeat per semester. And I know many who have degrees.

You must only know boomers and gen Xers with degrees then.  It has been a different world for almost 20 years now.

I worked a barely over minimum wage job to pay for my first degree……. In 1985.  Got my next 2 part time while working a decent, but not great job, paid for a house, started a family.

25yrs later my son attempted the same, except had a job that paid $6/hr over minimum wage.  And he had to take out loans to finish at a community college. In high school he worked a farm and banked the money.  It’s not enough anymore.

Assuming it is still possible to work your way through college and not take out loans is being very unaware of reality today.

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, Marvin said:

For years, I have been recommending to people's kids that if they are not going into STEM or something with a nearly guaranteed way of paying off their student loans, then they should take up a trade.  Things like plumbing, electricity, heating, and housing are not going away any time soon.

Agree.  

I know a younger lady (now 37) with over $140k in student loans after completing 10 years of college which included 3 school changes (2 private schools), a useless English degree, and finally a masters in speech.  Poor guidance in high school and limited knowledge by her parents, today she just hopes for loan forgiveness.   

[pastajoe]

19 hours ago, North Buffalo said:

Curious on the non union thing, Im in the healthcare industry and turn 60 in another year... hit 10 years in the union and trying to decide the +- about higher pay v benefits. I could go on my wife's insurance but it isnt as good... ps I also will receive a fed pension.

I can say from experience that once you get in your 60s and your health issues increase, having good medical and dental insurance is more important than higher pay if you’re already at a decent pay rate. You can be relatively healthy and still have issues requiring treatment and prescriptions. I’m retired and without dental insurance I just paid $1500 for a crown.

[Weave]

25 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Agree.  

I know a younger lady (now 37) with over $140k in student loans after completing 10 years of college which included 3 school changes (2 private schools), a useless English degree, and finally a masters in speech.  Poor guidance in high school and limited knowledge by her parents, today she just hopes for loan forgiveness.   

My son’s fiance went the pre-med route and ended up detouring after about $120k in school loans.  Extremely smart girl (no idea what she’s doing hanging around the likes of my kin). She’s still well on a path to a good lifestyle, but man, the specter of being that far in debt for school loans at a young age has put some serious stress in their lives.