Hot takes gone cold? Revisit your Sabres agita

[Stoner]

For example...

I always hated Doug Gilmour for quitting on the back check in OT of Game 7 vs. the Pens in 2001. He allowed, in my mind, Darius Kasparaitis to go unmolested and beat Dominik Hasek with a simple wrister. Yes, I blamed Doug more than Dom.

Upon further review, Gilmour did skate hard, at first, but then he did disconnect his controller. He wasn't catching Kasparaitis,and he knew it. (He should still be criticized for giving up though... It's not like it was either going to be a goal or a save. There were other possibilities.)

But, yeah, Dom was the bum.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by PASabreFan

[inkman]

Is agitas like alligator fajitas?  

[Weave]

I don’t wanna revisit my grudges.

[That Aud Smell]

Tyler Myers was going to be a Norris Trophy candidate.

Perhaps my early enthusiasm was influenced by the fact that Myers was the dance partner for none other than Patrice Bergeron's first (and only?!) fighting major.

 

[ubkev]

3 hours ago, inkman said:

Is agitas like alligator fajitas?  

I didn't know agita could be plural, but I like it. 

[dudacek]

I was high on Myers after his rookie year too.

But the 1st one that popped to mind for me was Sam Reinhart.

I thought he was going to be that elite 2nd line centre: 25-30 goal, 40-50 assist, plus-player against tough competition: a core piece on a contender. He’s a very good player, but definitely a notch or 2 under my expectations for him as a prospect.

I will always wonder what might have been if he had been developed as a driver in the role we drafted him for, rather than cast as Eichel's sidekick by Bylsma and Housley.

I thought we got a glimpse when he went a point per game at centre in his April under Donnie.

Another opportunity wasted in the lost decade.

[thewookie1]

32 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I was high on Myers after his rookie year too.

But the 1st one that popped to mind for me was Sam Reinhart.

I thought he was going to be that elite 2nd line centre: 25-30 goal, 40-50 assist, plus-player against tough competition: a core piece on a contender. He’s a very good player, but definitely a notch or 2 under my expectations for him as a prospect.

I will always wonder what might have been if he had been developed as a driver in the role we drafted him for, rather than cast as Eichel's sidekick by Bylsma and Housley.

I thought we got a glimpse when he went a point per game at centre in his April under Donnie.

Another opportunity wasted in the lost decade.

In some ways Reinhart's issues were both caused by our coaching and his own demeanor. I get the sense he has always been a guy who'd rather be in the background versus the main attraction. Bylsma and Housley were fine with him just running shotgun with Eichel. (Reinhart seemed to separate from ROR after his rookie year and instead latched to Eichel) Even when Eichel was out with his high ankle sprain he would run shotgun for ROR. The only time we saw a coach actually push him into the 1C role was with Granato. In some ways Reinhart probably needed to be pushed in such a manner to bring out his skill at a higher level. So in the end he fell short of being a Top Tier 2C and became a solid 2/3RW

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, ubkev said:

I didn't know agita could be plural, but I like it. 

Google was not my friend.

[Buffalonill]

Thought jack eichel was the second  coming of gilbert perreault

 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

I was high on Myers after his rookie year too.

But the 1st one that popped to mind for me was Sam Reinhart.

I thought he was going to be that elite 2nd line centre: 25-30 goal, 40-50 assist, plus-player against tough competition: a core piece on a contender. He’s a very good player, but definitely a notch or 2 under my expectations for him as a prospect.

I will always wonder what might have been if he had been developed as a driver in the role we drafted him for, rather than cast as Eichel's sidekick by Bylsma and Housley.

I thought we got a glimpse when he went a point per game at centre in his April under Donnie.

Another opportunity wasted in the lost decade.

If Donnie G would have been the hire instead of Krueger, how much better would the team be? When he assumed stewardship of the team, he moved Tage to center and in short order revitalized Skinner's sunken career. The coach has made a number of smart moves when dealing with young talents. One of his best moves was putting Krebs in between Okposo and Girgs. That move placing him between two veteran players altered his game and made him play a more disciplined and tighter game that was suitable for the NHL. 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by JohnC

[Kristian]

I’m still furious with Brian Holzinger going for a half-hearted sticklift on Brett Hull, instead of just crosschecking him into next week.

[matter2003]

On 7/25/2023 at 3:50 PM, dudacek said:

I was high on Myers after his rookie year too.

But the 1st one that popped to mind for me was Sam Reinhart.

I thought he was going to be that elite 2nd line centre: 25-30 goal, 40-50 assist, plus-player against tough competition: a core piece on a contender. He’s a very good player, but definitely a notch or 2 under my expectations for him as a prospect.

I will always wonder what might have been if he had been developed as a driver in the role we drafted him for, rather than cast as Eichel's sidekick by Bylsma and Housley.

I thought we got a glimpse when he went a point per game at centre in his April under Donnie.

Another opportunity wasted in the lost decade.

He is a 30 goal scorer now...both years with Florida he has over 30

[Pimlach]

On 7/25/2023 at 3:50 PM, dudacek said:

I was high on Myers after his rookie year too.

But the 1st one that popped to mind for me was Sam Reinhart.

I thought he was going to be that elite 2nd line centre: 25-30 goal, 40-50 assist, plus-player against tough competition: a core piece on a contender. He’s a very good player, but definitely a notch or 2 under my expectations for him as a prospect.

I will always wonder what might have been if he had been developed as a driver in the role we drafted him for, rather than cast as Eichel's sidekick by Bylsma and Housley.

I thought we got a glimpse when he went a point per game at centre in his April under Donnie.

Another opportunity wasted in the lost decade.

He was supposed to be a 1C and better than Draisaitl, no?  

[Cascade Youth]

When they injured Rhett Warrener and it killed our playoff hopes.

[Night Train]

On 7/25/2023 at 12:15 PM, inkman said:

Is agitas like alligator fajitas?  

I thought he meant to say Angina. We all have plenty of that. 

Ny current "Agitas" is the failure of our forwards to get back on D, allowing an alarming amount of clean breaks by our opponents. That better change. 

[Thorner]

On 7/25/2023 at 3:29 PM, thewookie1 said:

In some ways Reinhart's issues were both caused by our coaching and his own demeanor. I get the sense he has always been a guy who'd rather be in the background versus the main attraction. Bylsma and Housley were fine with him just running shotgun with Eichel. (Reinhart seemed to separate from ROR after his rookie year and instead latched to Eichel) Even when Eichel was out with his high ankle sprain he would run shotgun for ROR. The only time we saw a coach actually push him into the 1C role was with Granato. In some ways Reinhart probably needed to be pushed in such a manner to bring out his skill at a higher level. So in the end he fell short of being a Top Tier 2C and became a solid 2/3RW

Wait, dudacek is just going to “like” this and not give the usual, appropriate correction, presumably because a he’s not a Sabre anymore? Reinhart is a 1 RW, by the stats, full stop. 

I’d sure love a 67 point 3rd line wing 

Finished 10th in points last year for right wingers league wide. sOliD 2/3 rWeR

Edited July 27, 2023 by Thorny

[thewookie1]

56 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Wait, dudacek is just going to “like” this and not give the usual, appropriate correction, presumably because a he’s not a Sabre anymore? Reinhart is a 1 RW, by the stats, full stop. 

I’d sure love a 67 point 3rd line wing 

Finished 10th in points last year for right wingers league wide. sOliD 2/3 rWeR

🙄

Well he played 3RW in Florida in 21-22 with their rookie center and Duclair.

And played 2RW with Florida this past year most of the year. 
 

He certainly has at least 2RW stats but in Florida he hadn’t played on the top line until the playoffs where they would run Tkachuk- Barkov - Reinhart sometimes, with Verhague being the other common winger seen.

[dudacek]

Reinhart was 3rd among Panther forwards in ice time last season, 1st among right wings.

He was 8th in ice time and tied for 10th in goals and points among all right wings, league wide.

He’s indisputably a 1st-line right wing by any measure that should matter, even if Florida frequently chooses not to play him with its other best forwards.

Wookiee’s not wrong, he often plays on Florida’s “3rd” line. It’s just another example of the imprecise nature of the hockey lexicon and why it is a bad idea to mistake the hierarchy of a pre-game roster with a player’s actual role and value.

Ice time is always the best way to measure where a player stands on his team.

Edited July 27, 2023 by dudacek

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

🙄

Well he played 3RW in Florida in 21-22 with their rookie center and Duclair.

And played 2RW with Florida this past year most of the year. 
 

He certainly has at least 2RW stats but in Florida he hadn’t played on the top line until the playoffs where they would run Tkachuk- Barkov - Reinhart sometimes, with Verhague being the other common winger seen.

And Malkin has lined up as the Pens 2C for a couple decades. Malkin a 2C?

poor argument is poor 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

And Malkin has lined up as the Pens 2C for a couple decades. Malkin a 2C?

poor argument is poor 

Regier should've offered Roy for him when he had the chance.  😄

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

And Malkin has lined up as the Pens 2C for a couple decades. Malkin a 2C?

poor argument is poor 

He's a 1C level player who plays 2C

Reinhart has the talent to be a 1RW but plays 2/3RW

[Pimlach]

All this talk about Reinhart being an elite 2C or a 1RW, or a 2/3 RW misses the fact that Murray picked him over Draisaitl.  
 

At 2OA Reinhart was supposed to be a first line player and an impact player.  He just had his best 2 goal scoring seasons while on a contending team and he is still not cracking the first line.  

[sabresparaavida]

6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

All this talk about Reinhart being an elite 2C or a 1RW, or a 2/3 RW misses the fact that Murray picked him over Draisaitl.  
 

At 2OA Reinhart was supposed to be a first line player and an impact player.  He just had his best 2 goal scoring seasons while on a contending team and he is still not cracking the first line.  

Some (many) teams choose to spread out their best talent so that they can have more balanced scoring, one of those teams is Florida. He was 3rd in Ice time, which means Florida views him as a first line calibre player on their team, even if he didn’t play with the other first liners much. 
 

Is Bunting better than Nylander? Because according to your logic, Bunting got a lot of time with Matthews and Marner, so he’s the first line forward, despite Nylander scoring 40 goals and being 3rd in Ice time. 

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

Some (many) teams choose to spread out their best talent so that they can have more balanced scoring, one of those teams is Florida. He was 3rd in Ice time, which means Florida views him as a first line calibre player on their team, even if he didn’t play with the other first liners much. 
 

Is Bunting better than Nylander? Because according to your logic, Bunting got a lot of time with Matthews and Marner, so he’s the first line forward, despite Nylander scoring 40 goals and being 3rd in Ice time. 

I get your point on balancing the lines and ice time, it is nothing new to me.  Now look at the career stats of the two players.  Draisaitl is a level higher.  

[sabresparaavida]

Just now, Pimlach said:

I get your point on balancing the lines and ice time, it is nothing new to me.  Now look at the career stats of the two players.  Draisaitl is a level higher.  

Okay? Did I argue with that? Obviously Draisaitl is the better player, and would have been the better pick. No one here is disputing that. I just don’t get why you are trying to argue that we should have picked Draisaitl because Reinhart isn’t a first line player. 
He is a first line player, but Draisaitl is just one of the best players in the league, as evidenced by him winning the hart.