The Sabres and the Goalie market

[Buffalonill]

4 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Whatever. If Levi is the starter, he’ll be fine.

Hell, if Levi was the starter last year, the Sabres would have made the playoffs.

So he didn't need craig anderson? 

[Ducky]

58 minutes ago, French Collection said:

The more pressure on KC the more chance the return is diminished. He’s been there a long time but this off season may be his most challenging and his job could be on the line.

He was recently extended.

[SwampD]

Just now, Buffalonill said:

So he didn't need craig anderson? 

No. He’s going to be great.

[Buffalonill]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

No. He’s going to be great.

So you dont think craig anderson being there helped him be successful and made it easier for him to get his mind straight. 

I'll disagree but that's me 

[LabattBlue]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What if they don't? Will you be okay with it?

Absolutely not, and if they miss, KA should be on the hot seat. 

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

Absolutely not, and if they miss, KA should be on the hot seat. 

You'd think Kev would get a little slack for the good work he's done so far. Right far more than wrong. I guess not.

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

So you dont think craig anderson being there helped him be successful and made it easier for him to get his mind straight. 

I'll disagree but that's me 

Maybe. But if it wasn’t CA, it would have been someone else.

Devon Levi will be fine.

[LabattBlue]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You'd think Kev would get a little slack for the good work he's done so far. Right far more than wrong. I guess not.

4 years and plenty of cap space and assets.  Am I asking too much?

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

4 years and plenty of cap space and assets.  Am I asking too much?

Year one was recovering from Ralph Krueger.
2 years of actually implementing his plan.
Year 3 hasn't happened yet.
Where do you get 4?

[LabattBlue]

44 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Year one was recovering from Ralph Krueger.
2 years of actually implementing his plan.
Year 3 hasn't happened yet.
Where do you get 4?

Isn’t this his 4th offseason?

Edited July 2, 2023 by LabattBlue

[PromoTheRobot]

12 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Isnt this his 4th offseason?

Technically yes. Kevyn was hired on June 20, 2020. So that offseason was already months old when he got the job. Year one his mandate was to help coach Krueger build the team RALPH wanted.

It wasn't until the 2021 offseason that he started on HIS program. That included permanently hiring Don Granato.

So that's two off-seasons and two seasons played under Adams vision.

Now we are in off season 3 of Adams full control.

You also said, quote: "4 years and plenty of cap space and assets.  Am I asking too much?" Adams has been on the job exactly 3 years and 12 days.  So again I ask, where do you get "4 years??"  And the cap space you talk about didn't materialize until the end of Adams first season, when Terry allowed him to fire Ralph, move players and start building the team his way.

Edited July 2, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[LabattBlue]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Technically yes. Kevyn was hired on June 20, 2020. So that offseason was already months old when he got the job. Year one his mandate was to help coach Krueger build the team RALPH wanted.

It wasn't until the 2021 offseason that he started on HIS program. That included permanently hiring Don Granato.

So that's two off-seasons and two seasons played under Adams vision.

Now we are in off season 3 of Adams full control.

You also said, quote: "4 years and plenty of cap space and assets.  Am I asking too much?" Adams has been on the job exactly 3 years and 12 days.  So again I ask, where do you get "4 years??"  And the cap space you talk about didn't materialize until the end of Adams first season, when Terry allowed him to fire Ralph, move players and start building the team his way.

Seriously?  You just stated he was hired June 2020.  First off the offseason starts each year with FA on July 1.  So that is 2020, 2021, 2022, and now 2023.  That makes this his 4th off-season.  To quote Shawshank Redemption, stop being obtuse.  

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Seriously?  You just stated he was hired June 2020.  First off the offseason starts each year with FA on July 1.  So that is 2020, 2021, 2022, and now 2023.  That makes this his 4th off-season.  To quote Shawshank Redemption, stop being obtuse.  

Look, I know your spin, and you're entitled to it. The guy is on the job 10 days before FA period begins. He's saddled with a coach he was going to fire. I am not counting that year. You can and will, especially if it feeds your narrative.

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

And pray Helleybuck doesn’t get injured 

Joker would be a good fit for the jets . UPL still could turn out to be a very good goalie and a high draft pick…giving up Rosen or Östlund seems like a massive overpayment but one the Sabres can afford 

I do not think KA would give up Joki, who just turned 24 and who played 21 min per game last year and will play pretty close to that amount this year, for Helle.

I think the absolute highest KA would go for Helle is the 2024 #1 and either VO or UPL -- and I kinda don't think he would do that unless Winnipeg's 2024 #2 were coming back.

 

8 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Seriously?  You just stated he was hired June 2020.  First off the offseason starts each year with FA on July 1.  So that is 2020, 2021, 2022, and now 2023.  That makes this his 4th off-season.  To quote Shawshank Redemption, stop being obtuse.  

 

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Look, I know your spin, and you're entitled to it. The guy is on the job 10 days before FA period begins. He's saddled with a coach he was going to fire. I am not counting that year. You can and will, especially if it feeds your narrative.

 

Well, this was a fair amount of pointless bickering.  It's obvious that at the end of this year, one of you thinks KA will have 4 years on the job, and the other thinks the first year shouldn't count.  There are valid points on both sides.

[LabattBlue]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Look, I know your spin, and you're entitled to it. The guy is on the job 10 days before FA period begins. He's saddled with a coach he was going to fire. I am not counting that year. You can and will, especially if it feeds your narrative.

I don’t have a “spin”. Just a suggestion and I will move on.  You know that is is okay from time to time to take off your “super fan” hat, and be critical.  No one will think any less of you. 😉

[PerreaultForever]

26 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Seriously?  You just stated he was hired June 2020.  First off the offseason starts each year with FA on July 1.  So that is 2020, 2021, 2022, and now 2023.  That makes this his 4th off-season.  To quote Shawshank Redemption, stop being obtuse.  

Not that it matters, but imo you count a GM's years by how many drafts he runs. 

[PromoTheRobot]

10 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not that it matters, but imo you count a GM's years by how many drafts he runs. 

I forgot the NHL draft was delayed till October that year due to COVID.

Edited July 2, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[Thorner]

On 7/2/2023 at 7:14 AM, nfreeman said:

I asked this in the Benson thread and I’ll ask it again:  would any of those who were advocating to trade #13 for Helle now trade Benson for Helle?

I’m assuming the answer is no, but if not please correct me.

At this point, is anyone on board with trading any of the following for Helle (and I think an extension would almost certainly not be part of the deal):

Kulich

Savoie

Rosen 

Östlund

JJP

2024 #1

Of the assets on this list, I would only trade the 2024 #1 for Helle, and I’m not sure KA would trade any of them.  

I’d go as high as Rosen too, maybe Östlund 

[Crusader1969]

18 hours ago, Thorny said:

I’d go as high as Rosen too, maybe Östlund 

have to say im surprised you didnt say you would trade any of them.

 

[Crusader1969]

are the Sabres Cup Contenders in 23/24 in any of the following scenarios?

a) Trade for Hellebuyck

b) Trade for Gibson 

c) Trade for Hart

d) Roll with Levi and UPL

Assuming the cost for any doesn't include a roster player outside of Joker or Olofsson

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Crusader1969

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

have to say im surprised you didnt say you would trade any of them.

 

Why? I haven’t been extreme on the issue at all. I’m not “selling the farm” and never advocated to. We have a totally stacked pool. Being open to dealing from it even for ooooonly one year of term for say, Hellebuyck, is something I’m open to (as you know), for an example. I mentioned in the past I am open to moving draft picks as well. We can afford to trade any one prospect to be brutally honest (I already have Levi on the roster), but I’d certainly deal Rosen. Who knows if that’s even in the ballpark of that they’d take, of course. 2024 protected first and Rosen? I do it. 

You won’t find any posts of mine where I talk about selling off a bunch of guys or saying I want to deal Savoie or Kulich. The equation simply makes sense now because we can *afford* to listen on anyone. I’ve gone on record a multitude of times saying I don’t believe “untouchable” is a thing, while others use it liberally, unless you have McDavid. For others, Josh Bloom was “untouchable” and my posts saying he was expendable were considered tantamount to hot takes lol. 

It all depends what the deal is 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

are the Sabres Cup Contenders in 23/24 in any of the following scenarios?

a) Trade for Hellebuyck

b) Trade for Gibson 

c) Trade for Hart

d) Roll with Levi and UPL

Assuming the cost for any doesn't include a roster player outside of Joker or Olofsson

 

 

Under A) it’s certainly a possibility within the realm of believability

1) we scored lots

2) the window always opens a little sooner than you think, and closes a little quicker than you think. Jets were “ahead of schedule” in 2018..that was their best year.
 

Tage could win MVP *next year*

Make a compelling argument for why it’s unreasonable to think there’s a decent chance of that happening. That that’s not worth aiming for. That Tage can’t win MVP with a completely dialled in roster. One not needing to get back to cover for UPL

what about Dahlin? Who wants to argue he shouldn’t have Norris expectations? Im listening 

How about in net? Who wants to argue that.. wait, hold up

*Why* don’t we think Hellebuyck, who should threaten for the Vezina, guiding Levi, doesn’t have a very fun chance of sending us to great things next year, again? As he Nikolai Khabibulin‘s us to a deep run before handing the reigns to young Niemi for the Cup? I’d certainly like to find out, if at all reasonably possible.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Thorny

[Weave]

48 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Under A) it’s certainly a possibility within the realm of believability

1) we scored lots

2) the window always opens a little sooner than you think, and closes a little quicker than you think. Jets were “ahead of schedule” in 2018..that was their best year.
 

Tage could win MVP *next year*

Make a compelling argument for why it’s unreasonable to think there’s a decent chance of that happening. That that’s not worth aiming for. That Tage can’t win MVP with a completely dialled in roster. One not needing to get back to cover for UPL

what about Dahlin? Who wants to argue he shouldn’t have Norris expectations? Im listening 

How about in net? Who wants to argue that.. wait, hold up

*Why* don’t we think Hellebuyck, who should threaten for the Vezina, guiding Levi, doesn’t have a very fun chance of sending us to great things next year, again? As he Nikolai Khabibulin‘s us to a deep run before handing the reigns to young Niemi for the Cup? I’d certainly like to find out, if at all reasonably possible.

I think this season is going to see a more defensively focused Sabres, and consequently less run and gun.  Last year may have been career years for a bunch of guys as a result. I hope that is the case, certainly.

Nonetheless, I think we will still be a top 1/3 of the league offensive team with a middle 1/3 of the league defensive game.

With that game and Helle, we should be a dark horse pick for alot of prognosticators.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is the goaltending situation across the NHL

Ana - Gibson, Dostal (RFA)

AZ - Vejmelka, Ingram

Bos - Ullmark, Swayman (RFA)

Buf - Levi, UPL, Comrie, Tokarski

Calg - Markstrom, Vladar & Wolf (Minors)

CAR - Andersen, Raanta, Kochetkov

Chi - Mrazek, Soderblom, Stauber

Colo - Georgiev, Francouz

CBJ - Merzlikins, Tarasov

DAL - Oettinger, Wedgewood

DET - Husso, Reimer, Lyon

EDM - Skinner, Campbell

FLA - Bobrovsky, Stolarz (Knight - IR)

LA - Copley, Talbot, Rittich

Minn - Gustavsson (RFA), MAF, Hunter

Mon - Allen, Montembeault, (Price-IR)

Nash - Saros, Lankinen. Askarov

NJD - Vanecek, Schmid

NYI - Sorokin, Varlamov

NYR - Shesterkin, Quick

Ott - Korpisalo, Forsberg-IR

PHI - Hart, Petersen, Sandstrom, Ersson

PIT - Jarry, DeSmith, Nedjelkovic

SJ - Kahkonen, Blackwood

Sea - Grubauer, Daccord

STL - Binnington, Hofer

TB - Vasilevsky

TOR - Samsonov (RFA), Woll, Murray

VAN - Demko, Martin

VGK - Hill, Thomspon, (Lehner-IR), Patera

WAS - Kuemper, Lindgren

WPG - Hellebuyck, Brossoit

I've underlined teams that may be willing to trade a goalie.  I've put in bold the goalies I think could be or are on the market.  

The top goalie prospects according to the Athletic in Feb 23 are Wallstedt (Minn) - Iowa (AHL), Askarov (NSH) - MILW (AHL), Wolf (Calg), Levi (BUF), Cossa (DET) - Toledo (ECHL), Dostal (ANA), Kochetkov (CAR), Schmid (NJD), Ersson (PHI), and Commesso (CHI) - BU (NCAA).  I put in italics the top prospects who played in the NHL some last year. 7/10 played at least 1 NHL game last year. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Night Train]

Gibson or Hart ?  Yuck... I get what we have beyond Levi.. Patience for something better.