The Sabres and the Goalie market

[Marvin]

Judging by our FA goaltender signings, the intent for the season is to go with Levi, Pekka-Lukkonnen, and Comrie in the NHL.  Otherwise, why would the Sabres have two AHL signings?

[GoPuckYourself]

16 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Judging by our FA goaltender signings, the intent for the season is to go with Levi, Pekka-Lukkonnen, and Comrie in the NHL.  Otherwise, why would the Sabres have two AHL signings?

I really hope this isn't the case, to put this all Levi's shoulders is unwise and unnecessary. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

45 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I really hope this isn't the case, to put this all Levi's shoulders is unwise and unnecessary. 

and honestly not very smart.

[dudacek]

4 hours ago, Marvin said:

Judging by our FA goaltender signings, the intent for the season is to go with Levi, Pekka-Lukkonnen, and Comrie in the NHL.  Otherwise, why would the Sabres have two AHL signings?

To me this clearly means they intend to make a trade.

Tokarski wasn’t‘t signed, and didn’t sign, to be 4th on the pecking order and an AHL backup.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

To me this clearly means they intend to make a trade.

Tokarski wasn’t‘t signed, and didn’t sign, to be 4th on the pecking order and an AHL backup.

One would hope.  However, to get Tokarski to 3rd in the pecking order, 2 goalies would be traded if KA manages to acquire a veteran.  It seems more likely at this point that KA trades away the loser of the camp battle between UPL and Comrie to back up Levi and Tokarski becomes No. 3 that way.

Maybe the Sabres pick up a goalie as part of a team's deal to land Karlsson.  For example; the rumor mill had Pitt acquiring Karlsson in a 3-team deal.  The Pens signed two goalies and are now over the cap.  Some money needs to come off their cap to work Karlsson in.  How about we take DeSmith and Jan Ruuta off their hands to help make the numbers work.

[triumph_communes]

And it’s that time again to use the ignore function on the guy who makes a dozen threads and shits up every other thread with his insistence on some magical goalie.  So much Levi disrespect 

Edited July 2, 2023 by triumph_communes

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

There's no reason to hit the doomsday button yet. The FA market was always going to be a feeding frenzy. If you thought KA was going to get into a bidding war for the few established goalies on the market, you haven't been paying attention. The season is still over 100 days away. Once the dust settles on FA, there is plenty of time, and we have plenty of desirable ammo for a trade. If we're approaching camp with no new bodies, then complain...I'll probably join ya.

This approach got us Dell and Tokarski in past seasons. 

[nfreeman]

I asked this in the Benson thread and I’ll ask it again:  would any of those who were advocating to trade #13 for Helle now trade Benson for Helle?

I’m assuming the answer is no, but if not please correct me.

At this point, is anyone on board with trading any of the following for Helle (and I think an extension would almost certainly not be part of the deal):

Kulich

Savoie

Rosen 

Östlund

JJP

2024 #1

Of the assets on this list, I would only trade the 2024 #1 for Helle, and I’m not sure KA would trade any of them.  

[Huckleberry]

6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I asked this in the Benson thread and I’ll ask it again:  would any of those who were advocating to trade #13 for Helle now trade Benson for Helle?

I’m assuming the answer is no, but if not please correct me.

At this point, is anyone on board with trading any of the following for Helle (and I think an extension would almost certainly not be part of the deal):

Kulich

Savoie

Rosen 

Östlund

JJP

2024 #1

Of the assets on this list, I would only trade the 2024 #1 for Helle, and I’m not sure KA would trade any of them.  

Maybe Östlund too, but I think he is going to be better than Savoie for us even.

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I asked this in the Benson thread and I’ll ask it again:  would any of those who were advocating to trade #13 for Helle now trade Benson for Helle?

I’m assuming the answer is no, but if not please correct me.

At this point, is anyone on board with trading any of the following for Helle (and I think an extension would almost certainly not be part of the deal):

Kulich

Savoie

Rosen 

Östlund

JJP

2024 #1

Of the assets on this list, I would only trade the 2024 #1 for Helle, and I’m not sure KA would trade any of them.  

Looking at Adams past practices would tell me, no extension then no deal. Include an extension and a favorable contract and then yes, I would trade a prospect or pick (not any prospect either).   The problem is the contract term and AAV. 
 

Add Helle and we are a pretty strong team. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

50 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I asked this in the Benson thread and I’ll ask it again:  would any of those who were advocating to trade #13 for Helle now trade Benson for Helle?

I’m assuming the answer is no, but if not please correct me.

At this point, is anyone on board with trading any of the following for Helle (and I think an extension would almost certainly not be part of the deal):

Kulich

Savoie

Rosen 

Östlund

JJP

2024 #1

Of the assets on this list, I would only trade the 2024 #1 for Helle, and I’m not sure KA would trade any of them.  

KA won’t do it, but to get a great mentor for Levi, and solidify the goaltending this season I’d trade Comrie/UPL and Rosen for one season of Hellebuyck.  

It’s worth the risk.  Even without Rosen ( Joel Armia 2.0?) our pipeline would still include 4 1st rd forwards, 3 second round forwards, plus Neuchev, Nadeau, Rousek and Kozak who are tracking to be NHL players.  Truthfully we won’t miss Rosen if traded. 

I won’t not be in favor of the Hellebuyck with an extension.  It would be too big a hit to our pipeline and we don’t want the cap hit long-term.  Levi is our goalie long-term but KA still has to field quality for 82 games for a playoff caliber team.  One year of Helle gives Levi some runway to develop without all the expectations riding on him.  I also think he’d learn a lot from a goalie of Helle’s stature, especially given Helle’s college background. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Turbo44]

48 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I asked this in the Benson thread and I’ll ask it again:  would any of those who were advocating to trade #13 for Helle now trade Benson for Helle?

I’m assuming the answer is no, but if not please correct me.

At this point, is anyone on board with trading any of the following for Helle (and I think an extension would almost certainly not be part of the deal):

Kulich

Savoie

Rosen 

Östlund

JJP

2024 #1

Of the assets on this list, I would only trade the 2024 #1 for Helle, and I’m not sure KA would trade any of them.  

I would include Rosen or our 2024 1st (hope it’s a late one)

Rosen, UPL, Joker for Hellebuyck. They may need two goalies, so they can have Comrie if they want him too

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I asked this in the Benson thread and I’ll ask it again:  would any of those who were advocating to trade #13 for Helle now trade Benson for Helle?

I’m assuming the answer is no, but if not please correct me.

At this point, is anyone on board with trading any of the following for Helle (and I think an extension would almost certainly not be part of the deal):

Kulich

Savoie

Rosen 

Östlund

JJP

2024 #1

Of the assets on this list, I would only trade the 2024 #1 for Helle, and I’m not sure KA would trade any of them.  

KA won’t trade Kulich or JJP. He wouldn’t want to trade the others but in the right deal he would trade one of the other three.

I think they are all going to be good NHL players but you can’t keep them all.

[nfreeman]

23 minutes ago, tom webster said:

KA won’t trade Kulich or JJP. He wouldn’t want to trade the others but in the right deal he would trade one of the other three.

I think they are all going to be good NHL players but you can’t keep them all.

This is probably true — my point was just that 1 year of Helle isn’t the right deal to part with an asset of that caliber IMHO (and I think I KA’s opinion too). 

[tom webster]

30 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This is probably true — my point was just that 1 year of Helle isn’t the right deal to part with an asset of that caliber IMHO (and I think I KA’s opinion too). 

The way I look at it, and I think some in the front office do, is right now they are probably a playoff team. With him, they are virtually guaranteed a playoff team, of course taking into account that a lot of things can happen to derail that. Is making the playoffs with a goalie that could win a round on his own worth losing a prospect and a number one?

[Randall Flagg]

23 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The way I look at it, and I think some in the front office do, is right now they are probably a playoff team. With him, they are virtually guaranteed a playoff team, of course taking into account that a lot of things can happen to derail that. Is making the playoffs with a goalie that could win a round on his own worth losing a prospect and a number one?

It would be very easy and plausible for the current roster to take a step back rather than forward. They need to finish the offseason. Adding a solid bottom 4 D and a bad one, while losing Quinn, is not enough. 

[Taro T]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

To me this clearly means they intend to make a trade.

Tokarski wasn’t‘t signed, and didn’t sign, to be 4th on the pecking order and an AHL backup.

Personally think that signing Tokarski indicates they will only have 2 goalies on the big team.  Whether that is through running Levi & one of the other 2 already there with them trying to sneak the other into Ra-cha-cha, or making a trade for a vet and moving one or both of the other 2 isn't clear yet.

But Tokarski IMHO is the insurance policy that they have a guy they trust could play a game or 2 in a pinch should the guy that ends up 3 when the dust has settled gets claimed when put on waivers.

He has played adequately in small samples for Buffalo.  They've seen him 1st hand in Buffalo.  Subban too.  And IMHO they don't trust Subban as much to be the emergency guy.  (As evidenced by signing Tokarski and not Subban.)

 

[Turbo44]

20 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

It would be very easy and plausible for the current roster to take a step back rather than forward. They need to finish the offseason. Adding a solid bottom 4 D and a bad one, while losing Quinn, is not enough. 

You are correct. Given the current roster construction, KA can’t be done. Common sense says it makes no sense as is

[triumph_communes]

34 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Personally think that signing Tokarski indicates they will only have 2 goalies on the big team.  Whether that is through running Levi & one of the other 2 already there with them trying to sneak the other into Ra-cha-cha, or making a trade for a vet and moving one or both of the other 2 isn't clear yet.

But Tokarski IMHO is the insurance policy that they have a guy they trust could play a game or 2 in a pinch should the guy that ends up 3 when the dust has settled gets claimed when put on waivers.

He has played adequately in small samples for Buffalo.  They've seen him 1st hand in Buffalo.  Subban too.  And IMHO they don't trust Subban as much to be the emergency guy.  (As evidenced by signing Tokarski and not Subban.)

 

Fully expect them to either trade UPL or waive Comrie and expect him to get claimed

 

Toker can absolutely play a game or three

Edited July 2, 2023 by triumph_communes

[Crusader1969]

Trying to figure out the Preds 

will Saros be available ? Rumour that they would have traded Askarov at the draft  (mtl fans are furious their GM didn’t accept the trade)

if they are willing to trade Askarov are they thinking of a quick,  on the fly rebuild, and extending Saros? 
 

if so , is Askarov a guy you could pair with Levi for the next 7-10 years? 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Crusader1969

[Turbo44]

2 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Trying to figure out the Preds 

will Saros be available ? Rumour that they would have traded Askarov at the draft  (mtl fans are furious their GM didn’t accept the trade)

if they are willing to trade Askarov are they thinking of a quick,  on the fly rebuild, and extending Saros? 
 

if so , is Askarov a guy you could pair with Levi for the next 7-10 years? 

Interesting 

[Brawndo]

4 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Trying to figure out the Preds 

will Saros be available ? Rumour that they would have traded Askarov at the draft  (mtl fans are furious their GM didn’t accept the trade)

if they are willing to trade Askarov are they thinking of a quick,  on the fly rebuild, and extending Saros? 
 

if so , is Askarov a guy you could pair with Levi for the next 7-10 years? 

Especially since the offer was Askarov, 15th and 24th OA supposedly. 
 

Trotz was willing to do this for Michkov, they probably ask for one of Cozens, JJP, Quinn and one of Kulich, Benson, and Savoie plus a pick. 
 

If a deal could be worked out I imagine they can play them both for 3-4 years and once their contract demands get too high move the lesser of the two for assets 

[Flashsabre]

If I’m Winnipeg I’d be worried right now. Where is the market for Hellebuyck? LA are tapped out after the Dubois deal. Carolina brought their goalies back. Detroit signed Reimer and Lyon. Ottawa signed Korpisalo. Pitt brought Jarry back long term.

One of the insiders said NJ moved off of Hellebuyck.

Hellebuyck wants out but the options are drying up for him.

If there isn’t a market I would offer Joker, UPL, VO, secondary prospect and say this is the best chance you will get to move him.

Take him for a year and tell him that we can’t give you the extension you want but we can give you a year to go on a run and hit UFA when the cap goes up next year. Let this team develop with a tandem of Hellebuyck and Levi behind them, let Levi develop properly and hope next year he is established as “The Guy”.

[nfreeman]

I think it's about 70% likely that the Sabres do not bring in a goalie, and they solve their roster issues by sending Bryson and either Stillman or Comrie to Rochester.  None of those 3 is likely to be claimed, and if he is, it's not a big loss.

 

[Porous Five Hole]

1 minute ago, Flashsabre said:

Hellebuyck wants out but the options are drying up for him.

If there isn’t a market I would offer Joker, UPL, VO, secondary prospect and say this is the best chance you will get to move him.

 

If that’s the best the Jets can get and I’m Winnipeg…I say no to the offer of the Sabres spare parts (I also have no belief in UPL) and wait until the deadline to move Helle.