2023 Free Agent Frenzy (Non-Sabres)

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

With respect to the issue of waiting on talent my response is simply, yes. 

With respect to how many more years am I willing to wait: My response is that we are there right now, this upcoming season. This team that has mostly been assembled is a playoff team. (My opinion.) If this team doesn't make the playoffs, I will be deeply disappointed. We have gotten to this point because the GM acted smartly and patiently. 

Okay that's fair enough. IF you believe we are there now and will make the playoffs with this line up I can see how you wouldn't want to make any bigger moves. That makes sense. 

We differ in that I don't believe we are there and so I wanted a big move to take us over the top and get us there. Frustrates me that we didn't do that since I think it'll be deja vu all over again next April. 

No point in us still debating that as it's an endless argument until next season unfolds. 

The one thing we both do agree on is we want playoffs next year. 

[Eleven]

If a player is ready, he is ready.  That is the approach with Levi and it should be the approach with Benson or anyone else, as well.  I don’t think Savoie is ready, given his brief shot in Roch, but who knows what work he has done this summer or what he looks like at camp?

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Okay that's fair enough. IF you believe we are there now and will make the playoffs with this line up I can see how you wouldn't want to make any bigger moves. That makes sense. 

We differ in that I don't believe we are there and so I wanted a big move to take us over the top and get us there. Frustrates me that we didn't do that since I think it'll be deja vu all over again next April. 

No point in us still debating that as it's an endless argument until next season unfolds. 

The one thing we both do agree on is we want playoffs next year. 

We'll be in the playoffs next year. 

[Buffalonill]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

We'll be in the playoffs next year. 

I agree that will be in the playoffs but everything has to go right.

And the biggest thing is Levi and UPL

And I have quite the few concerns.

1) What happens if UPL is so bad that he can't win games for Buffalo? 

What's the plan.

2) what happens if there's so much pressure on Levi and He regresses And destroys his confidence.

What's the Plan.

3) What happens if both are bad? Are they okay with getting a top ten draft choice and trying again in the summer .

I know I sound negative but these are real concerns you have to think about. 

 

 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Buffalonill said:

I agree that will be in the playoffs but everything has to go right.

And the biggest thing is Levi and UPL

And I have quite the few concerns.

1) What happens if UPL is so bad that he can't win games for Buffalo? 

What's the plan.

2) what happens if there's so much pressure on Levi and He regresses And destroys his confidence.

What's the Plan.

3) What happens if both are bad? Are they okay with getting a top ten draft choice and trying again in the summer .

I know I sound negative but these are real concerns you have to think about. 

 

 

Worrying is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere. 

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, Standing Room Smoking Cigs said:

Adams at this point is right to hoard prospects, better yet he is signing them, especially the Russians and setting a rotation of not just another guy(s) to fill the roster. After now what 12 years of missing the playoffs, I'm willing to stay the course for another year even if comes up short of playoffs. Adams is not long for the GM job, he'll be moved up to a Sabres Shanny job and Karmanos will be the next GM.... as it should for success going forward... We look at the all the prospects we have and are impatient to get to that next level... yet honestly.... the new front office installed is still "prospects" in terms of years with the Sabres in meaningful decision making jobs. The Sabres have mastered tanking... and well it was a great job... they're still trying to master a not a rebuild,.. but a new team without the benefit of a 2000's era expansion draft. This team will be good for a long time... They are plugging in the defensemen that will help the kids we have, and are right to assume UPL and Levi will mature and stop the the goaltending by 'Hey can you suit up, you look like a goaltender' we have had. Adams has never struck me as I want the credit kind of guy... he seems to really seem invested in building a special something that will last a long time. Also I think Adams is aware of the Detroit model (Jimmy D and Holland)  of 25 years of playoffs, 4 cups, you build, you accumulate... you trade after success and you become a destination for those who want a day with the cup... Whelp... I said my peace...I'll post again n about 3 months!!! (No I'm not Adams agent!!!)

Oooooo-kaaay.

What does ANY of that have to do with how healthy the team may or may not be this season?

[triumph_communes]

Only thing I’m worried about are the scoring lines keeping pace later in the season when teams start to clamp down. One or two injuries and we couldn’t score a goal end of last season

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

What's the plan.

What's the Plan.

I think Kevyn does in fact have a plan and I wouldn't get too warped until we see what the opening night roster looks like. 

An alternative view:  If Levi and UPL both hit this year we'll be set in goal for a while at a team-friendly cap share.

Is there risk involved?  Of course.  But the reward could be worth it.

[Taro T]

54 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I think Kevyn does in fact have a plan and I wouldn't get too warped until we see what the opening night roster looks like. 

An alternative view:  If Levi and UPL both hit this year we'll be set in goal for a while at a team-friendly cap share.

Is there risk involved?  Of course.  But the reward could be worth it.

The other awful part of needing 2 more points last year to get to the playoffs.  That plan of seeing how things work out without making any goalie upgrade beyond Levi wouldn't have been horrible (just bad) had they been in the playoffs last year.  (That, and Okposo could've retired with a clear conscience.)

But for the fans' psyches they really need to make the playoffs this year.  And running back the same goaltending makes that less likely.  (Not unlikely; just less likely.)

[Doohicksie]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

The other awful part of needing 2 more points last year to get to the playoffs.  That plan of seeing how things work out without making any goalie upgrade beyond Levi wouldn't have been horrible (just bad) had they been in the playoffs last year.  (That, and Okposo could've retired with a clear conscience.)

But for the fans' psyches they really need to make the playoffs this year.  And running back the same goaltending makes that less likely.  (Not unlikely; just less likely.)

Not sure how Levi, who only played 7 games, is "same goaltending".

[Taro T]

Just now, Doohickie said:

Not sure how Levi, who only played 7 games, is "same goaltending".

The same goaltending they ended the year with.  The same goaltending they entered the league year with.  That is how they are running back the same goaltending.

You do realize that, but figured would respond anyhow.  

[Doohicksie]

And for the UPL doubters:  He was clearly inconsistent and streaky last year, but the Sabres *did* earn points at a 89 point/82 game clip when he got the decision.  Not quite playoff caliber, but if he's #2, that's not bad.  If he's with the big team on Day One and doesn't miss much time due to injury there's reason to believe he will be at least that good if not better.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We'll be in the playoffs next year. 

Hopefully that is correct, but I don't think so. 

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Hopefully that is correct, but I don't think so. 

Charity wager then?

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, Doohickie said:

And for the UPL doubters:  He was clearly inconsistent and streaky last year, but the Sabres *did* earn points at a 89 point/82 game clip when he got the decision.  Not quite playoff caliber, but if he's #2, that's not bad.  If he's with the big team on Day One and doesn't miss much time due to injury there's reason to believe he will be at least that good if not better.

How many games did he win where the Sabres scored 3 or less goals? What about 4 or less?

[Eleven]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Hopefully that is correct, but I don't think so. 

 

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Charity wager then?

DO IT PF!

[Curt]

21 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

That was just a way of wording it and you know that. The headline move can also be a smart move. As an example, pairing Pesce with Power for close to the next decade would have been incredibly smart, would have made headlines AND we'd ALL be excited about it. 

Pesce is about to be 29.  Maybe half a decade, 5-6 more years, if he lucky, as a top 4 D.

I agree with your overall point, I’m just saying.  He isn’t a spring chicken.

[Doohicksie]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

How many games did he win where the Sabres scored 3 or less goals? What about 4 or less?

I'm just sayin' the team is over NHL .500 with him in the net, which isn't bad for a backup. 

Fancystats be damned.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Pesce is about to be 29.  Maybe half a decade, 5-6 more years, if he lucky, as a top 4 D.

I agree with your overall point, I’m just saying.  He isn’t a spring chicken.

Yes, but lots of good D over 30. Pietrangelo is 31 I think and he was vital for the Vegas cup win. Gudas was even older for Florida. Heck Johnson's 35 so why'd they sign him if you want spring chickens?

If Pesce was signed for 8 years, sure, end of that deal he's falling off the roster maybe and you might even buy him out but 6 good years as a top 4 would be fine with me. 

[LTS]

23 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

No, they don't have that history. They are both establishing a history of winning and being a winner.  Both are different. I was only talking about Seattle though as their experience is different to Vegas. Seattle's initial roster wasn't very good. Most people said they'd suck and they were not very good first year, but they were not afraid to turn over that roster, make big moves in free agency and they turned into a winner fast. 

You also can't say they had any great advantage. They didn't get to flip an Eichel for 4 assets or a Reinhart or even a Risto. That's a lot of assets added to a team that also has a D with 2 first overall picks on it. imo they started way below us but they want to win now and have. We have a far less aggressive and far more patient approach now, and thus it takes longer. In the end we might be better, but it's a big maybe.

Seattle has 2 years in so far.. they have won, and if it continues then yes, let's say a history of winning. You can look at a two year period of almost any team and say they were building a history of winning and being a winner, until they are not.  That's the point I was getting at more than anything.  They are playing to win now and in a few years they will have to resort, like every team does, to building a pipeline through the draft. This will be much harder to do if they keep drafting in the lower half of the rounds.

I imagine that this is exactly why the NHL has adopted this method of expansion draft. It allows the teams to have an opportunity to be successful out of the gate and cement a fan base before they fall into the inevitable rebuild.

As for starting way below Buffalo.. I don't think that's true. They started with players who more established. This puts them further ahead. All in all I would have preferred the Sabres not take so long to figure it out, but now that they have I don't want them to short circuit where they are headed.

[PerreaultForever]

42 minutes ago, LTS said:

Seattle has 2 years in so far.. they have won, and if it continues then yes, let's say a history of winning. You can look at a two year period of almost any team and say they were building a history of winning and being a winner, until they are not.  That's the point I was getting at more than anything.  They are playing to win now and in a few years they will have to resort, like every team does, to building a pipeline through the draft. This will be much harder to do if they keep drafting in the lower half of the rounds.

I imagine that this is exactly why the NHL has adopted this method of expansion draft. It allows the teams to have an opportunity to be successful out of the gate and cement a fan base before they fall into the inevitable rebuild.

As for starting way below Buffalo.. I don't think that's true. They started with players who more established. This puts them further ahead. All in all I would have preferred the Sabres not take so long to figure it out, but now that they have I don't want them to short circuit where they are headed.

I've said this before but will repeat it. You, me, nobody here would have traded the entire Buffalo roster for the entire Seattle expansion draft roster so the idea of saying they were ahead is, imo, ridiculous. We already had the so called 'core" we are excited about. They also had no pipeline, no prospects, and had to build a farm team from scratch (which they also did quite successfully as they almost won the AHL title). 

As it looks now, they will not be rebuilding through the draft in a few years as they are building a pipeline and are balancing their roster with veterans and younger guys. It will be interesting to see if they can sustain things and keep improving this way. 

[Zamboni]

5 hours ago, Eleven said:

 

DO IT PF!

He won’t. And don’t anyone dare try to bet with buffalonil either 😂

[Curt]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Yes, but lots of good D over 30. Pietrangelo is 31 I think and he was vital for the Vegas cup win. Gudas was even older for Florida. Heck Johnson's 35 so why'd they sign him if you want spring chickens?

If Pesce was signed for 8 years, sure, end of that deal he's falling off the roster maybe and you might even buy him out but 6 good years as a top 4 would be fine with me. 

I don’t disagree.  I’m just a pedant is all.

[mjd1001]

21 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Only thing I’m worried about are the scoring lines keeping pace later in the season when teams start to clamp down. One or two injuries and we couldn’t score a goal end of last season

I think a healthy Dahlin getting the puck up the ice out of the D-zone and setting up the forwards helps ALL the forwards keep production up.  Should I say a healthy and fairly well rested Dahlin.   I know he is going to get a lot of ice time, but can we find a way to knock it down from almost 26 minutes per game he last last year to something like 23 minutes per game?

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I'm just sayin' the team is over NHL .500 with him in the net, which isn't bad for a backup. 

Fancystats be damned.

And, as you are well aware, correlation is NOT ncessarily causation.