2023 NHL Summer Trade Thread

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I admit when I'm wrong. Pity you never do. 

Last year I said Detroit and Ottawa might be better than us because of their moves. We did better than expected (mostly because of Cozens), Detroit did worse, and Ottawa had goalie problems that sunk them. In the end Ottawa was close to us and Detroit did a pivot for the future and after dismantling they went on a losing streak. Both teams are still competition for next season and I doubt there's more than a 10 pt. difference between the 3 of us come season's end. Ottawa next year worries me more than Detroit. 

Ok on to the rest. Detroit traded bertuzzi and hronek at the deadline, that's not much of a teardown or dismantle. I guess Sundqvist counts in that too but not much dismantling. Detroit has a limited offense and a questionable defense. Their goaltending is, idk maybe better than ours but I like Levi. 

So for me, the question is does Buffalo's improved d and g make them better or worse than Detroit's ufa hole filling shopping spree. They'll add Kasper and Edvinsson this year too.

I think yes because there's just more firepower in Buffalo. Granato is right, it's harder to teach offense. This team that Buffalo has is taking another step. 

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

I would trade Philly the 24 1st rd, Östlund and Joker for Hart.

Briere is asking for 2 firsts, you’re offering more. May get Laughton added from your proposal.

If Hart clears the Team Canada scandal, I would offer ‘24 first and Rosen(Sabres return for Risto).

I still like MAF as an option. Hellebuyck as a long shot.

Edited July 9, 2023 by French Collection

[dudacek]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I admit when I'm wrong. Pity you never do. 

Last year I said Detroit and Ottawa might be better than us because of their moves. We did better than expected (mostly because of Cozens), Detroit did worse, and Ottawa had goalie problems that sunk them. In the end Ottawa was close to us and Detroit did a pivot for the future and after dismantling they went on a losing streak. Both teams are still competition for next season and I doubt there's more than a 10 pt. difference between the 3 of us come season's end. Ottawa next year worries me more than Detroit. 

5 points ahead of the Senators, 11 over Detroit.

7 points behind the Lightning, 1 back of Florida.

 

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Granato is right, it's harder to teach offense.  

This statement, isolated and out of context becomes completely incorrect. 

It is hard to "teach" offense to a player who doesn't have it. Skill is skill and you can't turn a work horse into a race horse. That's obvious. BUT at the NHL, these offensively skilled guys come in and they have rarely had to be defenders or worry about the high skill levels of the opposition. Offense first has always been their way. Teaching them the discipline and structure and their assigned role is a much harder thing to do. 

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

5 points ahead of the Senators, 11 over Detroit.

7 points behind the Lightning, 1 back of Florida.

 

Point(s) being? 

[dudacek]

26 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

. 

Point(s) being? 

Maybe the Sabres belong more with the Florida teams - who, on paper, regressed this off-season - than Ottawa and Detroit.

[dudacek]

People around here talk all the time about “fixing the defence”.

I don’t see much separation between the Sabres and any of the 4 teams around us in terms of the defence corps.

1. Hedman Ekblad Dahlin Chabot Seider
2. Sergachev Montour Power Chychrun Wallman
3. Cernak Forsling Samuelsson Sanderson Gostisbehere
4. Perbix Mikkola Clifton Zub Maatta 
5. Bogosian Ekman-Larsson Johnson Hamonic Chairot
6. Fleury Mahura Jokiharju Brannstrom Holl
7. Dehaan Kulikov Lyubushkin Bernard-Docker Lindstrom

I also think our forwards stack up very well against that competition.

Can Levi be as good as Bobrovsky, Husso, Korpisalo and Vasilevkiy? The first 3, why not?

It’s certainly not a gimme, but this team, as it is currently constituted, has as good a chance as any of those 5 at grabbing a divisional playoff spot.

I’m sick of thinking about Detroit and Ottawa. The goal in that room should be taking down Tampa.

[PerreaultForever]

44 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Maybe the Sabres belong more with the Florida teams - who, on paper, regressed this off-season - than Ottawa and Detroit.

This is possible. Not sure what will happen with Tampa. Their time may be done but they still have a lot of high end talent so with good goaltending they might still be there. Florida is a question mark. A few moves. A few differences. They can't play that playoff style all year, it's too physically demanding. I guess their fate is also in their off and on goalie's hands. 

[Weave]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

People around here talk all the time about “fixing the defence”.

I don’t see much separation between the Sabres and any of the 4 teams around us in terms of the defence corps.

1. Hedman Ekblad Dahlin Chabot Seider
2. Sergachev Montour Power Chychrun Wallman
3. Cernak Forsling Samuelsson Sanderson Gostisbehere
4. Perbix Mikkola Clifton Zub Maatta 
5. Bogosian Ekman-Larsson Johnson Hamonic Chairot
6. Fleury Mahura Jokiharju Brannstrom Holl
7. Dehaan Kulikov Lyubushkin Bernard-Docker Lindstrom

I also think our forwards stack up very well against that competition.

Can Levi be as good as Bobrovsky, Husso, Korpisalo and Vasilevkiy? The first 3, why not?

It’s certainly not a gimme, but this team, as it is currently constituted, has as good a chance as any of those 5 at grabbing a divisional playoff spot.

I’m sick of thinking about Detroit and Ottawa. The goal in that room should be taking down Tampa.

I think the biggest mismatch is Power.  Will be interesting to see if he takes a big step or a small step, or has a sophomore slump.

[thewookie1]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

This statement, isolated and out of context becomes completely incorrect. 

It is hard to "teach" offense to a player who doesn't have it. Skill is skill and you can't turn a work horse into a race horse. That's obvious. BUT at the NHL, these offensively skilled guys come in and they have rarely had to be defenders or worry about the high skill levels of the opposition. Offense first has always been their way. Teaching them the discipline and structure and their assigned role is a much harder thing to do. 

Granato is right in theory, and you aren’t exactly wrong either though.

Offense is easier to pick up but harder to master since NHL level hockey is far more difficult than any other level on skill level alone. Defense is typically a thankless job which without the confidence gained through offense can sink most younger players. 
 

For most young players, it is very true that many have an offensive disposition. Arguably the best way to get those players to do in the NHL what they did to get drafted is help them score. A confident player will be more open to expanding their game. Teaching defense isn’t easy, but becomes far more doable with a player who feels confident and comfortable in their skin. There are some exceptions who pride themselves on defensive play but it takes a specific type of person to have that naturally. It’s far easier to feel defeated playing defensively than offensively for most players. If a player does everything right on offense but doesn’t score, they’ll get angry but also more driven to strike again. It’s a net neutral overall. Defensively if you play perfect yet they still score can quickly create any number of psychological issues if not handled correctly because the likelihood of a net negative occurring. Some will think their perfection wasn’t perfect enough and start over compensating. Some will start feeling vitriol to their teammates. And some will feel defeated and sort of withdraw into themselves thus only furthering the damage. 
 

Effectively it is far easier to raise a player’s confidence through learning offense than it is through defense since mistakes don’t necessarily end up in your net.

[Buffalonill]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

I think the biggest mismatch is Power.  Will be interesting to see if he takes a big step or a small step, or has a sophomore slump.

I mean he was pretty incredible for a rookie at times I felt   he's been in the league for about 5 years .

I honestly don't see a sophomore slump more of him fighting with Dahlin in the norris race 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Buffalonill

[thewookie1]

My question is, how long until Power learns how to shoot?

When he does his stats will nearly double since there were many times last year he was in great positions but failed to get a great shot off. Just look how much better Dahlin looks with a solid point shot capability. It forces opponents to be mindful  of it and thus opens up more opportunities. Power would gain a great boon to have a solid shot of his own since he already has the ability to headfake players out of their  skates.

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m sick of thinking about Detroit and Ottawa. The goal in that room should be taking down Tampa.

Ottawa I think is the challenge here. Detroit I am not worried about long term.  I just don't seem them developing their top young talent as good as Ottawa, Buffalo, and other teams. I think people are saying Detroit is a team 'on the rise' because they have a handful of top 10 picks in the last few years.  However, they aren't really doing all that great compared to other top 10 picks.

  Seider on D looks good, but not dominant good. Larkin is at his ceiling. A good ceiling as a guy expect to get 25-32 goals per year, but again, very good, not elite. Lucas Raymond is their other 'star in waiting' but he took a bit step back in year 2. Not only were his stats down, but a few articles out of detroit I read said his overall game hadn't progressed either. Rasmussen is another of their elite prospects, a former top 10 pick..but he's already 24, going into his 5th year in the league and has less production than Mitts. People are high on Zadina, another former 6th overall pick, but he was drafted all the way back in 2018, and he's shown nothing to make you think he is more than a 10 goal per year guy. Edvinson was another top 10 pick on D for them, but since his draft he has moved up through the system but not yet excelling at any one level.

A lot of the good play Detroit got this year was from 35 year old David Perron, 30 year old Andrew Copps, 32 year old Ben Chiarot and 27 year old Kubalik.  The young guys need to step up a lot to have Detroit take that next step, and I just see Buffalo and Ottawa having the 'young guys' developed more than those on Detroit.

With me saying that, now watch Detroit come out and finish 10 points ahead of Buffalo and Ottawa this year.

 

[Weave]

8 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

I mean he was pretty incredible for a rookie at times I felt   he's been in the league for about 5 years .

I honestly don't see a sophomore slump more of him fighting with Dahlin in the norris race 

“for a rookie” being the key words.  He looked fantastically composed.  His fancy stats were not great.  They were great for a rookie though.

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

My question is, how long until Power learns how to shoot?

When he does his stats will nearly double since there were many times last year he was in great positions but failed to get a great shot off. Just look how much better Dahlin looks with a solid point shot capability. It forces opponents to be mindful  of it and thus opens up more opportunities. Power would gain a great boon to have a solid shot of his own since he already has the ability to headfake players out of their  skates.

I am not at all concerned about his offensive game developing.  I am concerned about his near total lack of physicality in his game.  The offense will be there.  He needs to develop a bit of ownership of the blue line and boards.

[mjd1001]

7 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

My question is, how long until Power learns how to shoot?

When he does his stats will nearly double since there were many times last year he was in great positions but failed to get a great shot off. Just look how much better Dahlin looks with a solid point shot capability. It forces opponents to be mindful  of it and thus opens up more opportunities. Power would gain a great boon to have a solid shot of his own since he already has the ability to headfake players out of their  skates.

The biggest thing/quickest way I see Power can improve is actually his confidence against the better teams the Sabres play against.

It was noticable to me that when the Sabres played some of the top teams in the league, he was more likely to pass the puck away a bit too quick on the zone exit when he still had a step or two more to take. Or when he chased the puck into the corner agains the better teams he wasn't pressured all the time yet would be quick to just flip the puck up the boards to the blue-line without always looking for a better play.  He didn't do that as much against some of the 'lesser' teams.   

If Power comes into this year with just a bit more confidence that he can play well against the top competition, that will be a major step forward for him.

[Buffalonill]

8 minutes ago, Weave said:

“for a rookie” being the key words.  He looked fantastically composed.  His fancy stats were not great.  They were great for a rookie though.

I am not at all concerned about his offensive game developing.  I am concerned about his near total lack of physicality in his game.  The offense will be there.  He needs to develop a bit of ownership of the blue line and boards.

They were better then Dahlin's rookie year 

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, Weave said:

I think the biggest mismatch is Power.  Will be interesting to see if he takes a big step or a small step, or has a sophomore slump.

Based on how he has played at every other level and the fact that he was asked to be the better player on his pairing 90% of the time absolutely don't expect him to suffer a sophomore slump as there isn't much they can add to his plate that he hasn't already been asked to do.

Whether he takes a small step forward or a big step forward is the big question and expect it will come down to how much muscle he puts on over the summer.

22 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

My question is, how long until Power learns how to shoot?

When he does his stats will nearly double since there were many times last year he was in great positions but failed to get a great shot off. Just look how much better Dahlin looks with a solid point shot capability. It forces opponents to be mindful  of it and thus opens up more opportunities. Power would gain a great boon to have a solid shot of his own since he already has the ability to headfake players out of their  skates.

 

13 minutes ago, Weave said:

“for a rookie” being the key words.  He looked fantastically composed.  His fancy stats were not great.  They were great for a rookie though.

I am not at all concerned about his offensive game developing.  I am concerned about his near total lack of physicality in his game.  The offense will be there.  He needs to develop a bit of ownership of the blue line and boards.

And really expect the things you both are looking for to be added to his game will come down to how much strength he adds in the off-season.  Am absolutely convinced that he didn't believe his shot was hard enough to beat an NHL goalie unless in very close and he couldn't disguise it well enough to try it anyhow against an NHL goalie.  Add some zip to the shot (and perhaps alter his release a little to make sure it isn't telegraphed except when trying for a slap shot (no friggin' way in the world to disguise that)) and he'll shoot more and start getting involved in more scoring plays too.

Add some muscle to give him the confidence that he's not a skinny kid going up against a man (and maybe even help him lower his center of gravity to help there as well) and expect we'll see him play more physical.  Doubt we'll ever confuse him for Ramsey or McKee, but he can definitely step that up to another level or 3.

[Brawndo]

25 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

They were better then Dahlin's rookie year 

 Nope 

Dahlin had much better defensive stats 

[Brawndo]

Dahlin was 18 for the entirety of His Rookie Year, while Power turned 20 in November. 
 

Poweris going to be very good, Dahlin is elite 

[Brawndo]

 

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Dahlin was 18 for the entirety of His Rookie Year, while Power turned 20 in November. 
 

Poweris going to be very good, Dahlin is elite 

It's criminal how many ppl here and nationally fail to recognize the absolute wagon that is Dahlin. Without Krueger the Barftastic, Dahlin already would have a Norris. His rookie year was generational.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Dahlin was 18 for the entirety of His Rookie Year, while Power turned 20 in November. 
 

Poweris going to be very good, Dahlin is elite 

In fairness to Power, Dahlin never had to drag Jokiharju up and down the ice that year.  😉

There has to be some sort of correction factor they can apply for that.  (Power would look much better playing with Montour, Bogosian, &/or Scandella and McCabe too.  Don't believe Dahlin got stuck with Ristolainen too often that year.  (Hoping that's not simply a memory fog kicking in.))

[Brawndo]

 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

There's the Detroit news we've been waiting on, curious to see the cost. 

[LGR4GM]

 

 

[LGR4GM]