2023 NHL Summer Trade Thread

[kas23]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

All things being equal including salary, would you flip Olofsson for Gibson straight up?  I.e., if Anaheim retained enough so that the Sabres were paying the 4.75 to Gibson instead of Olofsson?

I can see both sides of this one, so I'm just honestly looking for opinions here.

Oloffson makes significantly less (4.75) than Gibson (6.4) and will also be a UFA after this coming season. One who owns Gibson also owns him for 4 years. 

[CTJoe]

1 hour ago, steveoath said:

in what metric?

In games played last season he was top 15 amongst Goaltenders.

His save % was 41st. 

He was 100th in GAA.

source: https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/nhl-goalies-stats.html

 

 

 

 

what's his goals vs expected? That to me is the best indicator.  It may not be good but will be telling.  ANA D was so bad it's hard to get any indication on the goalie.  Gibson prob isn't worth it given his salary, cost, recent numbers and attitude (pretty sure he turned down the Sabres last year), but, anybody who has confidence in UPL as a viable backup is delusional. He's been horribly erratic. 

[thewookie1]

13 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Now imagine if this team tomorrow traded picks and/or prospects (no roster players aside from the who cares like VO or Jokiharju) and landed Helleybuck in one deal and Pesce in another. If that happened, we wouldn't just be talking playoff possibilities, we'd be discussing how we're now better than the Leafs and are we good enough to win the division. Wouldn't you rather be having that discussion?

I’d be furious if they traded Kulich/Savoie/Benson.

I’d be happy but confused as what to do with all these D with Pesce.

I’d be very angry if we gave Helle 8x9mil because he is certainly not worth that for his 31 to 39 years. As well as it practically seals off Levi or leave us with a giant cap dump to deal with.

[Eleven]

23 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Oloffson makes significantly less (4.75) than Gibson (6.4) and will also be a UFA after this coming season. One who owns Gibson also owns him for 4 years. 

Yes, the premise of the question is that Anaheim would retain the difference.

[sabresparaavida]

11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I guess I should have added traded for and signed to extensions. That was what I was thinking. 

There is one thing here I feel a need to comment on and that's how much are you thinking we have to pay Quinn/Peterka? They haven't done much of anything yet. I see no cap problem. We currently have over 6 million left. We trade VO we have more than enough to cover both salaries. Next year we no longer have Johnson's money. The cap is projected to go up roughly 5 million. Kyle and Zemgus are gone. Worst case we ditch Casey and replace him with Kulich's rookie contract. I see no problem at all. 

Well Dahlin gets about a 4 million raise. 
power gets about a 7 million dollar raise. I’d guess mitts somewhere around 5 million, but if he repeats the end of last season, it could be more. Krebs may get a modest 2.5 if he is similarly productive next season. Then Pesce will take around 7 million most likely, maybe a little more or a little less. Hellebuyck reportedly wants 9.5 million. If we do all those deals, that brings us to 83 million dollars with 16 players on the roster. Some of the empty spots will be filled by players with ELCs and be cheaper, but even filling out the roster with ELCs would put us over the cap in the 2024-2025 season. Maybe we make do with 21 players on the roster, 5 being rookies/players for less than 1 mil. After that, we’d be relying on the salary cap to raise enough to resign Quinn, JJP and Levi the following season. This doesn’t really seem like it will work. We might be able to handle trading for one big player and signing for term, but we can’t really do 2.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Turbo44 said:

Is there a team that would trade for VO at this point and his 4.8m cap hit?? Thinking he’d have to be included in a bigger trade for a Pesce/Hellebuyck/Gibson type

I think the moment likely has passed. The target could have been Chicago or maybe Philly. Somebody looking to get to the cap floor. They likely would have taken him off our hands but KA likely wanted something back that they weren't willing to offer. I doubt anyone's interested right now unless you've got some unexpected deal involving some salaried player on another roster. You look at how the Bruins had to basically give Hall away for nothing, there's no way anybody was going to pay for VO. 

I would have given him away and used the money in free agency.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

Kyle and Zemgus will be gone? Based on what precedent? Hinostroza theory?  I suppose I’ll believe it when I see it. 

Also, I highly doubt we move Mittelstadt. He’s our 5th best forward 

That's true. I just don't see them as important pieces moving forward if you make different additions. 

I really don't like what we did with the bottom 6 this year myself. I personally wouldn't have signed Kyle or Zemgus or Jost. There were better options to go forward with (but of course if those players didn't want Buffalo different story but that's unknown)

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I’d be furious if they traded Kulich/Savoie/Benson.

I’d be happy but confused as what to do with all these D with Pesce.

I’d be very angry if we gave Helle 8x9mil because he is certainly not worth that for his 31 to 39 years. As well as it practically seals off Levi or leave us with a giant cap dump to deal with.

I wouldn't trade Kulich. Benson idk yet. Savoie, for the right deal sure. 

The Pesce moment is gone. They signed lesser D men so yes, they'd have to move one or two if that happened (or not have signed Johnson etc)

Hellebuyck is more complicated. I wouldn't like 8 years either. 2 years absolutely. 6 probably. How much goes back in the deal depends on how much I'd like or hate it.

I would trade the 2 firsts (next year and the year after so no prospects gone) Philly apparently wants for Carter Hart. (kind of hoping we get good enough that 1st rounders have less value to us going forward as well)

I would have signed Korpisalo as Ottawa did. If they jump ahead of us now because of it remember this post. If they stay behind us or do worse feel free to throw it back in my face at the end of the year, but I think that was the move we should have made. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

Well Dahlin gets about a 4 million raise. 
power gets about a 7 million dollar raise. I’d guess mitts somewhere around 5 million, but if he repeats the end of last season, it could be more. Krebs may get a modest 2.5 if he is similarly productive next season. Then Pesce will take around 7 million most likely, maybe a little more or a little less. Hellebuyck reportedly wants 9.5 million. If we do all those deals, that brings us to 83 million dollars with 16 players on the roster. Some of the empty spots will be filled by players with ELCs and be cheaper, but even filling out the roster with ELCs would put us over the cap in the 2024-2025 season. Maybe we make do with 21 players on the roster, 5 being rookies/players for less than 1 mil. After that, we’d be relying on the salary cap to raise enough to resign Quinn, JJP and Levi the following season. This doesn’t really seem like it will work. We might be able to handle trading for one big player and signing for term, but we can’t really do 2.

Too many hypotheticals so idk. I see top teams manage the cap so I think we can find a way too. 

I'm not paying Mitts 5 million +   Krebs hasn't earned anything over 2 yet either. Helleybuck is maybe too big of an ask I agree, but Pesce was certainly affordable .

[freester]

Hellybuck isn’t signing a short term extension. He’s going to wait to be a ufa when the cap goes up and he will go wherever he gets long term money. 

[thewookie1]

51 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I wouldn't trade Kulich. Benson idk yet. Savoie, for the right deal sure. 

The Pesce moment is gone. They signed lesser D men so yes, they'd have to move one or two if that happened (or not have signed Johnson etc)

Hellebuyck is more complicated. I wouldn't like 8 years either. 2 years absolutely. 6 probably. How much goes back in the deal depends on how much I'd like or hate it.

I would trade the 2 firsts (next year and the year after so no prospects gone) Philly apparently wants for Carter Hart. (kind of hoping we get good enough that 1st rounders have less value to us going forward as well)

I would have signed Korpisalo as Ottawa did. If they jump ahead of us now because of it remember this post. If they stay behind us or do worse feel free to throw it back in my face at the end of the year, but I think that was the move we should have made. 

Korpisalo isn’t worth what he got. He isn’t that good and long term contracts with goalies are rarely good. Essentially I don’t see him as much of an upgrade on UPL/Comrie.

You seem far too willing to just throw assets around to be frank. Hart isn’t worth anywhere near 2 1sts. Briere can ask for it but I wouldn’t meet it for sure. Again he’s likely a 1 year guy with high variability in his play.

[steveoath]

3 hours ago, CTJoe said:

what's his goals vs expected? That to me is the best indicator.  It may not be good but will be telling.  ANA D was so bad it's hard to get any indication on the goalie.  Gibson prob isn't worth it given his salary, cost, recent numbers and attitude (pretty sure he turned down the Sabres last year), but, anybody who has confidence in UPL as a viable backup is delusional. He's been horribly erratic. 

No idea, to the bold. I think Gibson is a horrible option so I’m not going to go searching. Perhaps the Gibson-stans couldn’t do that. UPLnas a young backup to an experienced no1 would be fine in most orgs. We are not most orgs. We have Levi. I find myself wanting an Anderson (-10 years) figure for him. I think GMKA likes UPL otherwise we would have seen him packaged with VO and HJ for  forward. We’ll see what emerges through the Summer, but hope Gibson is not part of the plans.

[Brawndo]

On the most recent Expected Buffalo Podcast, Chad mentioned despite Adams public statements, they are not comfortable with their goaltending outside of Levi. He mentioned Adams isn’t willing to overpay in the trade market however.  It sounds like Helly is off the table, Gibson and Vladar are the targets they mentioned. 
 

Chad did a breakdown of Gibson’s play His First 40 games were good the final ones were a disaster. With Gibson expected to be split starts with Levi, would he better than UPL and Comrie with limited starts? 

Vladar looked good in the AHL and he was the target of Sabres in the Hall Trade. 

Also they pointed out  that Friedman mentioned Pesce has the NTC and he brought up Buffalo and San Jose as teams that are probably on it. 

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

On the most recent Expected Buffalo Podcast, Chad mentioned despite Adams public statements, they are not comfortable with their goaltending outside of Levi. He mentioned Adams isn’t willing to overpay in the trade market however.  It sounds like Helly is off the table, Gibson and Vladar are the targets they mentioned. 
 

Chad did a breakdown of Gibson’s play His First 40 games were good the final ones were a disaster. With Gibson expected to be split starts with Levi, would he better than UPL and Comrie with limited starts? 

Vladar looked good in the AHL and he was the target of Sabres in the Hall Trade. 

Also they pointed out  that Friedman mentioned Pesce has the NTC and he brought up Buffalo and San Jose as teams that are probably on it. 

I buy that logic way more with Gibson than say, Comrie, at least. With Gibson he’s actually perhaps delivering a solid enough raw amount of good games, he’s capable of that output, it would just be about reworking his usage to decrease the bad games that somewhat torpedo the rest. The fit could be good. With Comrie, we were banking on him actively producing a net amount of good performances he had never in his career to date managed to deliver. His numbers were likely to suffer when trying to increase the sample size. Gibson as a case of potentially instead deceasing the sample size is potentially good strategy, I’d argue, for the opposite reason.

I hope it’s true they are still actively looking. Certainly flies in the face of the repetitive chants of “he’s comfortable with Levi/UPL”, that’s always nice 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Thorny

[irregularly irregular]

3 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

Well Dahlin gets about a 4 million raise. 
power gets about a 7 million dollar raise. I’d guess mitts somewhere around 5 million, but if he repeats the end of last season, it could be more. Krebs may get a modest 2.5 if he is similarly productive next season. Then Pesce will take around 7 million most likely, maybe a little more or a little less. Hellebuyck reportedly wants 9.5 million. If we do all those deals, that brings us to 83 million dollars with 16 players on the roster. Some of the empty spots will be filled by players with ELCs and be cheaper, but even filling out the roster with ELCs would put us over the cap in the 2024-2025 season. Maybe we make do with 21 players on the roster, 5 being rookies/players for less than 1 mil. After that, we’d be relying on the salary cap to raise enough to resign Quinn, JJP and Levi the following season. This doesn’t really seem like it will work. We might be able to handle trading for one big player and signing for term, but we can’t really do 2.

I appreciate your thoughtful approach to future considerations. I would say that you are maybe getting too far into the future considerations. KA needs to concentrate on what works best for the 2023-24 season while keeping an eye on how that effects the future. This team as now constructed seems to have the pieces that could get them into the playoffs if things go well. There are still many moving parts to fit into spots around the NHL between now and the start of the season, and therefore lots of opportunity for KA to add and/or subtract one or two more pieces to the team. I'll wait to see what happens before the season starts before I start looking for a reason to complain that KA didn't do enough. 

[PerreaultForever]

37 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Korpisalo isn’t worth what he got. He isn’t that good and long term contracts with goalies are rarely good. Essentially I don’t see him as much of an upgrade on UPL/Comrie.

You seem far too willing to just throw assets around to be frank. Hart isn’t worth anywhere near 2 1sts. Briere can ask for it but I wouldn’t meet it for sure. Again he’s likely a 1 year guy with high variability in his play.

Regarding Korpisalo we just disagree on his worth. He battled a hip problem but after that was fixed he got a lot better and he's a solid competitor. I think that was one of the key FA signings this year. I stand by that and am fine to admit I am wrong if he turns out to be crap in Ottawa. 

Hart's not a one year guy because he's an RFA not a UFA after this contract. Even if it's an overpay in terms of true value I just don't care if we traded two future first round picks for him. He'd fill a need and at the same time not block Levi. Open competition and may the better goalie get more starts. There's upside to Hart BUT if he's not that great you can move on after or he can become the back up to Levi. It's got you covered either way. As for 2 future picks, again, I just don't care. We have a big prospect pool. If Adams is drafting well at some point we will be trading multiple prospects for one roster player. We will have to. Much like L.A. is already doing. There just won't be enough room for all the prospects anyway so you'll either have to move them or you'll just lose them to waivers eventually anyway.

So you think I'm throwing assets away, while I think it's sound strategic moves. I mean let's just say Rosen, Savoie, Kulich, Benson, Rousek, (add a few more if you want) are ALL NHL players. Where are they gonna play? You've only got 4 lines and you've got a salary cap if they're good. There's simply no room for all of them unless you're also thinking of moving out the current roster. 

Assets are assets, and keeping them or moving them is determined by what you have in each position and what you need. You keep or move accordingly.We have enough of them to make a FEW moves. 

[Zamboni]

7 hours ago, CTJoe said:

Yes, Gibson is a top 15 NHL goalie

 

@CTJoe can you please answer steveoath’s question? I’m interested in your answer as to why Gibson is a top 15 starting goalie in the NHL.

6 hours ago, steveoath said:

in what metric?

In games played last season he was top 15 amongst Goaltenders.

His save % was 41st. 

He was 100th in GAA.

source: https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/nhl-goalies-stats.html

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Zamboni

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I wouldn't trade Kulich. Benson idk yet. Savoie, for the right deal sure. 

The Pesce moment is gone. They signed lesser D men so yes, they'd have to move one or two if that happened (or not have signed Johnson etc)

Hellebuyck is more complicated. I wouldn't like 8 years either. 2 years absolutely. 6 probably. How much goes back in the deal depends on how much I'd like or hate it.

I would trade the 2 firsts (next year and the year after so no prospects gone) Philly apparently wants for Carter Hart. (kind of hoping we get good enough that 1st rounders have less value to us going forward as well)

I would have signed Korpisalo as Ottawa did. If they jump ahead of us now because of it remember this post. If they stay behind us or do worse feel free to throw it back in my face at the end of the year, but I think that was the move we should have made. 

Yea and last year you thought Detroit would be better than us too.

7 hours ago, CTJoe said:

Yes, Gibson is a top 15 NHL goalie, UPL never will be.  Gibson has been beaten down by a defense that makes the Sabres D look like the Bruins.  Gibson would be better than fine as Levi's tandem.  His team gave up more shots per game last year than any team in the history of hockey.  Hockey has been around a long time..... .899 save % last year seucked for him, by far his worst, but compare it to UPL's

I have no idea how anyone has faith in UPL progressing.  He has underacheived in every league he's played in except for the one year in Juniors. I have much more confidence in Comrie, if he can have a health year

 

Things that aren't true for 1,000 Alex.

[Flashsabre]

I think Gibson is a lot better goalie then what he has shown. He was great in juniors and to start his career on a competitive Ducks team. Since they have been awful I think he starts well gets frustrated with the losing and falls apart.  I think a move to Buffalo where him and Levi split starts would do wonders for him but it would be risky. 4 years at $6 is a lot if he doesn’t pan out. You would hope Levi can take over after a year or two. But if he bounces back then you could move him when Levi is ready to be the man. 

Hart is the other option if he is cleared in the WJC police report.

Korpisalo has his ups and downs but has played well overall. 5 years wouldn’t be a great signing though for Buffalo.

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Regarding Korpisalo we just disagree on his worth. He battled a hip problem but after that was fixed he got a lot better and he's a solid competitor. I think that was one of the key FA signings this year. I stand by that and am fine to admit I am wrong if he turns out to be crap in Ottawa. 

Hart's not a one year guy because he's an RFA not a UFA after this contract. Even if it's an overpay in terms of true value I just don't care if we traded two future first round picks for him. He'd fill a need and at the same time not block Levi. Open competition and may the better goalie get more starts. There's upside to Hart BUT if he's not that great you can move on after or he can become the back up to Levi. It's got you covered either way. As for 2 future picks, again, I just don't care. We have a big prospect pool. If Adams is drafting well at some point we will be trading multiple prospects for one roster player. We will have to. Much like L.A. is already doing. There just won't be enough room for all the prospects anyway so you'll either have to move them or you'll just lose them to waivers eventually anyway.

So you think I'm throwing assets away, while I think it's sound strategic moves. I mean let's just say Rosen, Savoie, Kulich, Benson, Rousek, (add a few more if you want) are ALL NHL players. Where are they gonna play? You've only got 4 lines and you've got a salary cap if they're good. There's simply no room for all of them unless you're also thinking of moving out the current roster. 

Assets are assets, and keeping them or moving them is determined by what you have in each position and what you need. You keep or move accordingly.We have enough of them to make a FEW moves. 

Trading your next 2 1sts is rarely if ever a good move. The sheer number of ways it can bite you outweighs the good. Could I come around to Östlund/Rosen and a conditional 2nd which becomes a 1st if we make the playoffs for a WJC cleared Hart, yes.

As for having not enough room for all the prospects, I understand the sentiment and it does concern me some degree; however the last thing I want to do is preemptively move out prospects to lessen that possibility. 
 

Prospect depth must be replenished at least every other year or else you may find yourself like Botts found himself after Murray. Little to no high end talent coming through the system and too many holes to fill. UFAs rarely are the answer for anything more than depth and Cup experience. 

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

Trading your next 2 1sts is rarely if ever a good move. The sheer number of ways it can bite you outweighs the good. Could I come around to Östlund/Rosen and a conditional 2nd which becomes a 1st if we make the playoffs for a WJC cleared Hart, yes.

As for having not enough room for all the prospects, I understand the sentiment and it does concern me some degree; however the last thing I want to do is preemptively move out prospects to lessen that possibility. 
 

Prospect depth must be replenished at least every other year or else you may find yourself like Botts found himself after Murray. Little to no high end talent coming through the system and too many holes to fill. UFAs rarely are the answer for anything more than depth and Cup experience. 

Not to mention that Briere is being insane and that, like you already said, Hart is not worth two firsts.  Biron got a very early second (first pick in the round) that I'd consider equal to a late first.   Hart is not better than Biron was.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

Trading your next 2 1sts is rarely if ever a good move. The sheer number of ways it can bite you outweighs the good. Could I come around to Östlund/Rosen and a conditional 2nd which becomes a 1st if we make the playoffs for a WJC cleared Hart, yes.

As for having not enough room for all the prospects, I understand the sentiment and it does concern me some degree; however the last thing I want to do is preemptively move out prospects to lessen that possibility. 
 

Prospect depth must be replenished at least every other year or else you may find yourself like Botts found himself after Murray. Little to no high end talent coming through the system and too many holes to fill. UFAs rarely are the answer for anything more than depth and Cup experience. 

Vegas has had 9 first round picks in their history traded 6 of them.

“Two 1st round picks” has a pretty wide range in value. I wouldn’t I would trade Savoie or Benson for Hart one-for-one, let alone both of them. But I would flip Brendan Brisson and the Vegas’ 1st rounder next year for him in a heartbeat.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea and last year you thought Detroit would be better than us too.

I admit when I'm wrong. Pity you never do. 

Last year I said Detroit and Ottawa might be better than us because of their moves. We did better than expected (mostly because of Cozens), Detroit did worse, and Ottawa had goalie problems that sunk them. In the end Ottawa was close to us and Detroit did a pivot for the future and after dismantling they went on a losing streak. Both teams are still competition for next season and I doubt there's more than a 10 pt. difference between the 3 of us come season's end. Ottawa next year worries me more than Detroit. 

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Trading your next 2 1sts is rarely if ever a good move. The sheer number of ways it can bite you outweighs the good. Could I come around to Östlund/Rosen and a conditional 2nd which becomes a 1st if we make the playoffs for a WJC cleared Hart, yes.

As for having not enough room for all the prospects, I understand the sentiment and it does concern me some degree; however the last thing I want to do is preemptively move out prospects to lessen that possibility. 
 

Prospect depth must be replenished at least every other year or else you may find yourself like Botts found himself after Murray. Little to no high end talent coming through the system and too many holes to fill. UFAs rarely are the answer for anything more than depth and Cup experience. 

So you're trading 2 first we already made and a 2nd but not 2 future firsts when presumably we pick lower? Seems to imply you think Adams made some bad picks? Your version offers more than mine.

I agree prospect depth must keep going, but a luxury of multiple prospects also gives you options. 

[sweetlou]

I would trade Philly the 24 1st rd, Östlund and Joker for Hart.