NHL advises against and/or bans cause-themed warmup jerseys.

[LGR4GM]

Also @ndirish1978you're actually being hypocritical in your own response. I'm not saying your religion is wrong, I'm saying you don't get to tell me your religion is right. 

[LGR4GM]

Think of it this way. If a Patriots fan wears Patriots stuff to a Bills game, they have a right to do that even if you hate the Patriots. Just because they are being a Patriots fan doesn't mean you're forcing that on anyone. You don't want to support the Patriots, then don't. It's simple. 

Okay, I've said my piece. I think it's good for others to say theirs even if they disagree with me. 

[Brawndo]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with your comment. And I believe that the proliferation of "Special Nights" dilutes the special nature of some causes. The organization can support a number of causes by community outreach efforts (which it does) instead of increasing the number of "Cause Nights". 

What’s a better way to show support to a cause?

A a tweet and a video on the team’s social media channels showing a check being presented to a group or an entire game with a themed presentation being devoted to that cause?  My money is on the latter. 
 

 

[Eleven]

12 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

What’s a better way to show support to a cause?

A a tweet and a video on the team’s social media channels showing a check being presented to a group or an entire game with a themed presentation being devoted to that cause?  My money is on the latter. 
 

 

I think that depends on the cause.  Is the goal to change hearts and minds (pride) or do we need money for research (cancer)?

And with pride (or other "hearts and minds" causes), are we doing anything or is everyone pretty much entrenched already?  I mean, I'm firmly entrenched in favor of gay rights, have been for my entire adult life, and no amount of, or absence of, pride night is going to change that.  I would imagine there are a lot of people staunchly the other way.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Eleven

[Brawndo]

4 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I think that depends on the cause.  Do we need to change hearts and minds (pride) or do we need money for research (cancer)?

And with pride (or other "hearts and minds" causes), are we doing anything or is everyone pretty much entrenched already?  I mean, I'm firmly entrenched in favor of gay rights, have been for my entire adult life, and no amount of, or absence of, pride night is going to change that.  I would imagine there are a lot of people staunchly the other way.

I agree with you are saying, I do feel these nights are geared more towards making members of the community being celebrated feel more welcomed, then trying to win the hearts or minds of people who have different opinions. 

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

I agree with you are saying, I do feel these nights are geared more towards making members of the community being celebrated feel more welcomed, then trying to win the hearts or minds of people who have different opinions. 

Maybe?  I've been to plenty of non-theme games with gay people, veterans, and cancer patients before and I don't think any of them felt less welcome...and I think more than one of them would have felt less welcome at some sort of issue-spotlight event.  *I* don't even feel comfortable at what I perceive to be fake cancer events.  They make me angry.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Exactly. And if you don't want to participate in a pride night, don't go that game or skip the warmup. The NHL is disgraceful on this and I'll bet you money, there will be a military night, what if I oppose war? Do I get to tell them they can't honor the military? 

Jean-Luc Picard said it best "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably...The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged." 

The line must be drawn..here! This far! No further! 

[steveoath]

In the words of Ozzy (see sabres live with Shayna for more)

Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love
And forget how to hate

[shrader]

2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

How will the online mobs respond to these tweets?

I’m sorry, but how does this counter my comment about people jumping all over anyone who decides to skip the warmup during any of the special events? Some people in here are completely skipping over posts and changing their message to whatever the hell works for them best. 

[Eleven]

27 minutes ago, shrader said:

I’m sorry, but how does this counter my comment about people jumping all over anyone who decides to skip the warmup during any of the special events? Some people in here are completely skipping over posts and changing their message to whatever the hell works for them best. 

And you comment is a relevant one, I suspect, because I think the league's new advice/policy (whichever it is) is a response to that stuff.

[Brawndo]

3 minutes ago, shrader said:

I’m sorry, but how does this counter my comment about people jumping all over anyone who decides to skip the warmup during any of the special events? Some people in here are completely skipping over posts and changing their message to whatever the hell works for them best. 

By demonstrating that there also is an online mob that jumps all over the team’s social media posts about pride, it’s not a unilateral phenomenon, it occurs on both sides of the issues. Twitter is bad, Facebook is even worse. 
 

Ivan Provorov was one of the most criticized players in the media this season, what happened as a result? 
Fox News and Tucker Carlson supported his decision and The NHL Shop and Fanatics completely sold out of His Jersey. 

[ndirish1978]

On 6/24/2023 at 2:14 PM, LGR4GM said:

Also @ndirish1978you're actually being hypocritical in your own response. I'm not saying your religion is wrong, I'm saying you don't get to tell me your religion is right. 

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but your argument essentially calls everyone who doesn't align with your thoughts a hypocrite for not believing the "right" truth, then you act like a victim when your hypocrisy is pointed out. The fact that you immediately tried to pin my problem with the way you state your point on religion shows you have a predisposition against certain arguments. I don't care what your religion is, I don't care who you sleep with, I don't care about your social background. I am tired of the virtue signaling hypocrisy of people who say "I believe everything should be heard" but what they really mean is "I believe everything I value should be heard."

Edited June 29, 2023 by ndirish1978

[miles]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Think of it this way. If a Patriots fan wears Patriots stuff to a Bills game, they have a right to do that even if you hate the Patriots. Just because they are being a Patriots fan doesn't mean you're forcing that on anyone. You don't want to support the Patriots, then don't. It's simple. 

Okay, I've said my piece. I think it's good for others to say theirs even if they disagree with me. 

Before I got married I followed baseball like crazy, and was a huge red Sox fan. Every non work shirt I had was red Sox. 

Anyway, I went to a random Phillies game wearing red Sox shirt and got heckled like crazy for the 1918 garbage. They weren't even playing the red Sox 

 

I have been to many games where people were opposite teams and people act like jerks to them.

 

I'm just trying to say I understand what you are saying and agree with it, but in general, people are jerks

Edited June 24, 2023 by miles

[shrader]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

By demonstrating that there also is an online mob that jumps all over the team’s social media posts about pride, it’s not a unilateral phenomenon, it occurs on both sides of the issues. Twitter is bad, Facebook is even worse. 
 

Ivan Provorov was one of the most criticized players in the media this season, what happened as a result? 
Fox News and Tucker Carlson supported his decision and The NHL Shop and Fanatics completely sold out of His Jersey. 

It’s not just Twitter or Facebook though. Why was I seeing stories on TSN each time someone declined to participate? That’s not news unless someone wants it to be. 
 

But regardless, this is not some attempt by the league clamp down on the very events that they sponsored. That’s a ridiculous thought. This is the league making itself the villain and taking the pressure off the players. It’s a smart move and it’s the very thing each of the league commissioners have been doing for their owners for years. It’s a nice change of pace to see them doing it for the players for once. 

[Hank]

I don't think players should be able to decline wearing a jersey or participate in warm-ups, not for any moral reason as I am no one else's moral compass, but because they are contractually obligated to do so. I think the NHL got this one wrong. They also received heavy criticism for players not participating, and likely would every year going forward. They'll take heavy criticism for their decision this week, but it will fade away over time. I understand why they did it, even if I don't like it. 

[JoeSchmoe]

There's 10% of people that are too far left, and 10% of people that are too far right.

Whatever end you're on, don't be a 10%er.

My take is any jersey worn for warmups other than the real jersey is kind of cheesy.

I said in a different thread that the meatheads on ATW actually got one right. Send the players that really care about the LGBT community in and do something really meaningful. Something better than wearing a jersey for warmups. Maybe a big road hockey game or something.

[shrader]

18 minutes ago, Hank said:

I don't think players should be able to decline wearing a jersey or participate in warm-ups, not for any moral reason as I am no one else's moral compass, but because they are contractually obligated to do so. I think the NHL got this one wrong. They also received heavy criticism for players not participating, and likely would every year going forward. They'll take heavy criticism for their decision this week, but it will fade away over time. I understand why they did it, even if I don't like it. 

I highly doubt that any contract requires participating in the pre-game warm up. Just think of the game time decision who doesn’t participate but then still plays. 

[Marvin]

10 hours ago, Brawndo said:

It’s maybe a total of 6 out of 41 home games. 

5 of the 6 do not cause any controversy.

3 of the 6 represent marginalized communities seeing professional hockey players wearing something that represents them can be a source of pride.

Money is raised for a lot of excellent charities 

As Allan Walsh tweeted 99% of the players participated in Pride Night Warmups.  

Allow the 1-2% of players who do not want to participate in any of these events to skip warmups.

 

The problem is that the NHL is worried about a Bud Light-type boycott in emerging markets.

[Zamboni]

8 minutes ago, Marvin said:

The problem is that the NHL is worried about a Bud Light-type boycott in emerging markets.

There has never been a “significant” boycott whatsoever in all the years the NHL teams have done these special Jersey events. I don’t think they are worried about significant boycotts at all. At least that’s how I see it. 

[Marvin]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

There has never been a “significant” boycott whatsoever in all the years the NHL teams have done these special Jersey events. I don’t think they are worried about significant boycotts at all. At least that’s how I see it. 

The Bud Light boycott was the first one of its type to work since the anti-apartheid boycotts.  From what I read across the political spectrum, corporations are spooked by right wing boycotts because they make it across the Republican political campaigns.

[Brawndo]

On 6/24/2023 at 7:42 PM, shrader said:

It’s not just Twitter or Facebook though. Why was I seeing stories on TSN each time someone declined to participate? That’s not news unless someone wants it to be. 
 

But regardless, this is not some attempt by the league clamp down on the very events that they sponsored. That’s a ridiculous thought. This is the league making itself the villain and taking the pressure off the players. It’s a smart move and it’s the very thing each of the league commissioners have been doing for their owners for years. It’s a nice change of pace to see them doing it for the players for once. 

 

Given that Bettman made the announcement after the Board of Governors Meetings, I have a feeling the decision came from the Owners not wanting to deal with the backlash more so than taking the pressure off the players.  

I personally think that a joint press conference with Gary Bettman and NHLPA Director Marty Walsh announcing that any player not wanting to participate in any theme night for personal, religious or political beliefs can choose to sit out warm ups or choose to wear a regular jersey instead with full support of the league and the Union.  Walsh was a champion for the LBGTQ Community as a mayor and he fully supported the players who choose not to participate.

On 6/24/2023 at 9:12 PM, Marvin said:

The problem is that the NHL is worried about a Bud Light-type boycott in emerging markets.

All special events including Pride Night will continue with or without jerseys. On Sabres Live they even mentioned some  players probably will continue to use rainbow tape on their sticks. 
 

Bud Light managed to piss off both Conservatives and the LBGTQ Community truly a remarkable feat.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Given that Bettman made the announcement after the Board of Governors Meetings, I have a feeling the decision came from the Owners not wanting to deal with the backlash more so than taking the pressure off the players.  

I personally think that a joint press conference with Gary Bettman and NHLPA Director Marty Walsh announcing that any player not wanting to participate in any theme night for personal, religious or political beliefs can choose to sit out warm ups or choose to wear a regular jersey instead with full support of the league and the Union.  Walsh was a champion for the LBGTQ Community as a mayor and he fully supported the players who choose not to participate.

All special events including Pride Night will continue with or without jerseys. On Sabres Live they even mentioned some  players probably will continue to use rainbow tape on their sticks. 
 

Bud Light managed to piss off both Conservatives and the LBGTQ Community truly a remarkable feat.

Wearing a regular sweater instead of a special one likely is a compromise that works, but not sure that won't still generate a firestorm itself.  And personally, really don't like the idea of having players intentionally skip warmups.  They warm up to loosen up and to be ready to play to keep themselves injury free and focused on the game at hand.

[Brawndo]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Wearing a regular sweater instead of a special one likely is a compromise that works, but not sure that won't still generate a firestorm itself.  And personally, really don't like the idea of having players intentionally skip warmups.  They warm up to loosen up and to be ready to play to keep themselves injury free and focused on the game at hand.

There is going to be a firestorm no matter what the NHL does.
Friedman, Marek and Lebrun have  spoken out against the proposed changed. Brian Duff was upset on Sabres Live on Friday. 
It’s going to rekindle when the Special Event Game Nights approach next season 

[shrader]

19 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Given that Bettman made the announcement after the Board of Governors Meetings, I have a feeling the decision came from the Owners not wanting to deal with the backlash more so than taking the pressure off the players.  

I personally think that a joint press conference with Gary Bettman and NHLPA Director Marty Walsh announcing that any player not wanting to participate in any theme night for personal, religious or political beliefs can choose to sit out warm ups or choose to wear a regular jersey instead with full support of the league and the Union.  Walsh was a champion for the LBGTQ Community as a mayor and he fully supported the players who choose not to participate.

The players already had the green light to skip the events and those who did got dragged through the coals for doing it. Your suggested change does nothing to mitigate that. In fact, putting them out there in a different jersey, you may as well be casting a spotlight upon them. 

[Hank]

22 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

There is going to be a firestorm no matter what the NHL does.
Friedman, Marek and Lebrun have  spoken out against the proposed changed. Brian Duff was upset on Sabres Live on Friday. 
It’s going to rekindle when the Special Event Game Nights approach next season 

Yes, it will, but it will fade over time instead of being on ongoing social media firestorm every time a player refuses to out there in an event jersey. I'll say it again, I don't agree with the NHLs decision, but I understand why they did it (at least I think I do, I could be wrong).