NHL advises against and/or bans cause-themed warmup jerseys.

[Eleven]

Yahoo reports it as a ban:  https://news.yahoo.com/nhl-bans-pride-jerseys-ice-113000009.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAFa21gsr0_z1DVDq7mUrYBME0g4pmYHWPHFgWW4xgUATfypc--UjbNfHUHFufVe65NipV7FwiLGjuSu5VfRU4zLV-gtYhGyfhqsWBnYcvBVntT56SMDqLiXN3TXaz05-maAeJ459OaRXadMl-HPa3iiApfI4lJopg_KRVDn2_81g

 

CNN reports it as advice:  https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/23/us/mlb-nhl-pride-jerseys/index.html

 

The three I know of are "hockey fights cancer," veterans, and pride sweaters; there may be others.

 

Hopefully a mod can move comments in from the Around the NHL thread.

[Brawndo]

Native American Hertiage, African American Heritage and the St Patrick’s Day Sweaters are some other ones. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

I care about this about as little as I care about the anthem being sung before a game. It starts to feel watered down when these things keep getting added on to by teams across the league. 

Sure, keep hockey fights cancer, or maybe one veteran night, but it's a game; were here for entertainment and a possible escape from life and it's problems. Let's just have a few hours if that without having to watch people get butthurt over what they perceive as an agenda. 

[Eleven]

I don't question the propriety; I question the utility.  And I think Woody has a point, these things do feel watered down.

 

[Brawndo]

It’s maybe a total of 6 out of 41 home games. 

5 of the 6 do not cause any controversy.

3 of the 6 represent marginalized communities seeing professional hockey players wearing something that represents them can be a source of pride.

Money is raised for a lot of excellent charities 

As Allan Walsh tweeted 99% of the players participated in Pride Night Warmups.  

Allow the 1-2% of players who do not want to participate in any of these events to skip warmups.

 

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

It’s maybe a total of 6 out of 41 home games. 

5 of the 6 do not cause any controversy.

3 of the 6 represent marginalized communities seeing professional hockey players wearing something that represents them can be a source of pride.

Money is raised for a lot of excellent charities 

As Allan Walsh tweeted 99% of the players participated in Pride Night Warmups.  

Allow the 1-2% of players who do not want to participate in any of these events to skip warmups.

 

It really is that simple.

It is odd how the NHL can simply ignore the Twitter mob on so many issues but decides they can’t on this one.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I care about this about as little as I care about the anthem being sung before a game. It starts to feel watered down when these things keep getting added on to by teams across the league. 

Sure, keep hockey fights cancer, or maybe one veteran night, but it's a game; were here for entertainment and a possible escape from life and it's problems. Let's just have a few hours if that without having to watch people get butthurt over what they perceive as an agenda. 

As you smartly point out sometimes less is more and less is better. There is a time and place to do and a time and a place to not do. 

[shrader]

24 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

It’s maybe a total of 6 out of 41 home games. 

5 of the 6 do not cause any controversy.

3 of the 6 represent marginalized communities seeing professional hockey players wearing something that represents them can be a source of pride.

Money is raised for a lot of excellent charities 

As Allan Walsh tweeted 99% of the players participated in Pride Night Warmups.  

Allow the 1-2% of players who do not want to participate in any of these events to skip warmups.

 

But will the online mobs allow them to skip the warmups? I honestly don’t think that more that 12 people would have noticed that some of these players weren’t out there unless they were told. 

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

But will the online mobs allow them to skip the warmups? I honestly don’t think that more that 12 people would have noticed that some of these players weren’t out there unless they were told. 

How will the online mobs respond to these tweets? 
 

 

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

As you smartly point out sometimes less is more and less is better. There is a time and place to do and a time and a place to not do. 

So who gets to decide how much and when to do it? 
 

My stance is for a couple of games a season celebrating diversity is a good thing.  

Edited June 24, 2023 by Brawndo

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

So who gets to decide how much and when to do it? 

This issue should be brought up by the owners to the commissioner. This is a worthy topic to consider. They can do it individually or collectively. The issue isn't simple and can be a PR nightmare if not handled in a respectful and empathetic manner. You can still support the respective groups through community outreach instead of having so many dedicated "Nights". Sometime stoking the fires of controversy can be avoided by simply stoking fewer fires. 

I support the groups that are under discussion here. I also understand that there are players and fans who for a variety of legitimate reasons (mostly related to religion) who have a different view/perspective. Very often avoiding an issue is a good strategy to take, especially in an entertainment venue. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by JohnC

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, JohnC said:

This issue should be brought up by the owners to the commissioner. This is a worthy topic to consider. They can do it individually or collectively. The issue isn't simple and can be a PR nightmare if not handled in a respectful and empathetic manner. You can still support the respective groups through community outreach instead of having so many dedicated "Nights". Sometime stoking the fires of controversy can be avoided by simply stoking fewer fires. 

I support the groups that are under discussion here. I also understand that there are players and fans who for a variety of legitimate reasons (mostly related to religion) who have a different view/perspective. Very often avoiding an issue is a good strategy to take, especially in an entertainment venue. 

Your religion doesn't give you the right to force your view or perspective on anyone. That's what's happening here, a small minority of ppl are using their beliefs to shutdown another group. I don't tell religious ppl they can't wear crosses in public or prayer in public or anything else. Why do they get to tell gay ppl how and when they can act gay in public? 

The other day, I saw 2 Muslim ladies in a public building setting out a rug and praying. I didn't care, I didn't attack them, I didn't attack their religion. Why? Because that is their right. But apparently it's a bridge to far for a hockey team to acknowledge lgbtq+ ppl exist. 🙄 

If your religion bans being gay then you can not be gay. But leave those who are, alone. No one is grooming kids to be gay. This is all fox news culture war bs. 

[LGR4GM]

44 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

So who gets to decide how much and when to do it? 
 

My stance is for a couple of games a season celebrating diversity is a good thing.  

Exactly. And if you don't want to participate in a pride night, don't go that game or skip the warmup. The NHL is disgraceful on this and I'll bet you money, there will be a military night, what if I oppose war? Do I get to tell them they can't honor the military? 

Jean-Luc Picard said it best "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably...The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged." 

Edited June 24, 2023 by LGR4GM

[PerreaultForever]

Oshawa Generals going the other way and increasing their pride efforts. 

 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Your religion doesn't give you the right to force your view or perspective on anyone. That's what's happening here, a small minority of ppl are using their beliefs to shutdown another group. I don't tell religious ppl they can't wear crosses in public or prayer in public or anything else. Why do they get to tell gay ppl how and when they can act gay in public? 

The other day, I saw 2 Muslim ladies in a public building setting out a rug and praying. I didn't care, I didn't attack them, I didn't attack their religion. Why? Because that is their right. But apparently it's a bridge to far for a hockey team to acknowledge lgbtq+ ppl exist. 🙄 

If your religion bans being gay then you can not be gay. But leave those who are, alone. No one is grooming kids to be gay. This is all fox news culture war bs. 

You misread or misinterpreted my comments. As far as forcing views on people it goes both ways. If someone for whatever reason, not necessarily religious but mostly so, doesn't want to participate in this designated celebration for whatever reason, then why should the player be forced to? Does a player who doesn't want to wear the pride uniform in warmups have a right to not be out there in warmups?I would say yes. 

I'm not extending this issue to the public or political arena. I'm addressing this issue of participation or not in a sporting venue. If a player doesn't want to participate, he shouldn't be forced to. I believe Lybushkin was the only player who didn't come out for the pride day warmup while everyone else did. I have no problem with that individual decision. 

[Brawndo]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

This issue should be brought up by the owners to the commissioner. This is a worthy topic to consider. They can do it individually or collectively. The issue isn't simple and can be a PR nightmare if not handled in a respectful and empathetic manner. You can still support the respective groups through community outreach instead of having so many dedicated "Nights". Sometime stoking the fires of controversy can be avoided by simply stoking fewer fires. 

I support the groups that are under discussion here. I also understand that there are players and fans who for a variety of legitimate reasons (mostly related to religion) who have a different view/perspective. Very often avoiding an issue is a good strategy to take, especially in an entertainment venue. 

Avoiding issues is what leads to the marginalization of certain groups in the first place There are 35-40 home games a season which do not have anything with pride or any other special events. Pride Night in particular is usually held on a weekday night(days that regularly have lower attendance). If a person has does not want to particular event, because of personal and/or religious beliefs, they choose not to attend, as there are 40 other home games to select from.

 

Ivan Provorov used the fact that supporting Pride Nights was against His Beliefs as a Member of the Russian Orthodox Church. The Church also says premarital sexual relations and cohabitation before marriage are a sin. Yet Ivan has lived with His Girlfriend for quite awhile now. If you are going to use Your Religious Beliefs to say why you are against something, do not be hypocritical and choose to only follow certain teachings. 

 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You misread or misinterpreted my comments. As far as forcing views on people it goes both ways. If someone for whatever reason, not necessarily religious but mostly so, doesn't want to participate in this designated celebration for whatever reason, then why should the player be forced to? Does a player who doesn't want to wear the pride uniform in warmups have a right to not be out there in warmups?I would say yes. 

I'm not extending this issue to the public or political arena. I'm addressing this issue of participation or not in a sporting venue. If a player doesn't want to participate, he shouldn't be forced to. I believe Lybushkin was the only player who didn't come out for the pride day warmup while everyone else did. I have no problem with that individual decision. 

You misinterpreted me too. I said nothing about individual players. No issue with lyubushkin not wearing it. My issue is that the nhl as a entity made sure no one can show support. If I were a player, I'd wear pride stuff in every interview from here out. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

Avoiding issues is what leads to the marginalization of certain groups in the first place There are 35-40 home games a season which do not have anything with pride or any other special events. Pride Night in particular is usually held on a weekday night(days that regularly have lower attendance). If a person has does not want to particular event, because of personal and/or religious beliefs, they choose not to attend, as there are 40 other home games to select from.

 

Ivan Provorov used the fact that supporting Pride Nights was against His Beliefs as a Member of the Russian Orthodox Church. The Church also says premarital sexual relations and cohabitation before marriage are a sin. Yet Ivan has lived with His Girlfriend for quite awhile now. If you are going to use Your Religious Beliefs to say why you are against something, do not be hypocritical and choose to only follow certain teachings. 

 

What would you do to a player who didn't want to participate in Pride Night? Would you punish him? I wouldn't. 

[Pimlach]

I actually enjoy these special games and events. At the top of my list is Hockey Fights Cancer, which I have several personal reasons for supporting.   Second on my list are veterans.  They should be acknowledged for their sacrifices.  People might be surprised how poor the treatment for injured vets can be.   Anyway, these are the two special nights I hope they retain   

All the other “community” stuff ( LGBTQ+, Native American, African American, St Pats, or whatever), is well intended but I agree with the comments that less is more.  The concept of America was (and still is) to unite multi-cultural people as one nation.  Marginalizing minorities is wrong, and while special nights celebrating special groups might raise awareness, it is not really uniting anything either.  
 

Hence this whole discussion.   
 

[Brawndo]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Exactly. And if you don't want to participate in a pride night, don't go that game or skip the warmup. The NHL is disgraceful on this and I'll bet you money, there will be a military night, what if I oppose war? Do I get to tell them they can't honor the military? 

Jean-Luc Picard said it best "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably...The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged." 

To expand on this, there is a Military Appreciation Night and one member of the military is honored at every single home game. 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You misinterpreted me too. I said nothing about individual players. No issue with lyubushkin not wearing it. My issue is that the nhl as a entity made sure no one can show support. If I were a player, I'd wear pride stuff in every interview from here out. 

I was talking about individual players. And I agree with the notion that there are too many causes and nights at sporting events. I'm not saying that they shouldn't exist, but I am saying that there are too many of them at these entertainment venues. 

[Brawndo]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

What would you do to a player who didn't want to participate in Pride Night? Would you punish him? I wouldn't. 

No they choose to wear a regular jersey in warmups or skip them all together it’s his choice 

[ndirish1978]

23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Your religion doesn't give you the right to force your view or perspective on anyone. That's what's happening here, a small minority of ppl are using their beliefs to shutdown another group. I don't tell religious ppl they can't wear crosses in public or prayer in public or anything else. Why do they get to tell gay ppl how and when they can act gay in public? 

The other day, I saw 2 Muslim ladies in a public building setting out a rug and praying. I didn't care, I didn't attack them, I didn't attack their religion. Why? Because that is their right. But apparently it's a bridge to far for a hockey team to acknowledge lgbtq+ ppl exist. 🙄 

If your religion bans being gay then you can not be gay. But leave those who are, alone. No one is grooming kids to be gay. This is all fox news culture war bs. 

 

I'm sorry but you're really picking and choosing causes here to fit your viewpoint. The pride contingent uses their beliefs to criticize people who don't support their cause just as much as any other group, pretending otherwise is patently untrue. You compare a private act, wearing a cross in public/public prayer, with a public act of telling people how to live their lives. That is just as easily changed to wearing a rainbow jersey being allowed and not telling people that their religion is wrong. I don't really care one bit what your cause is, just don't virtue signal in one direction and then immediately turn around and act like a victim. 

Russian players grow up in a country where being gay is illegal - they have families at home who will likely face backlash if they were the jerseys. They choose not to wear the pride jersey and people are up in arms calling them bigots. Their culture tells them something is wrong, they probably agree with that sentiment and in the event they don't their family could face backlash for their opinions. Players should be allowed to support or not support whichever causes they want. I'm just tired of all these double standard arguments acting like one side is virtuous and the other is all hypocrites. Get rid of all the causes and just play the sport.

I don't think any person should have to wear a pregame jersey supporting a cause they don't support. The only reason these causes are actually in sports is because they ultimately make the teams money on jersey sales, if they didn't earn, these special causes wouldn't even be an afterthought.

Edited June 24, 2023 by ndirish1978

[JohnC]

Just now, Brawndo said:

No they choose to wear a regular jersey in warmups or skip them all together it’s his choice 

I agree with your comment. And I believe that the proliferation of "Special Nights" dilutes the special nature of some causes. The organization can support a number of causes by community outreach efforts (which it does) instead of increasing the number of "Cause Nights". 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

I'm sorry but you're really picking and choosing causes here to fit your viewpoint. The pride contingent uses their beliefs to criticize people who don't support their cause just as much as any other group, pretending otherwise is patently untrue. You compare a private act, wearing a cross in public/public prayer, with a public act of telling people how to live their lives. That is just as easily changed to wearing a rainbow jersey being allowed and not telling people that their religion is wrong. I don't really care one bit what your cause is, just don't virtue signal in one direction and then immediately turn around and act like a victim. 

Russian players grow up in a country where being gay is illegal - they have families at home who will likely face backlash if they were the jerseys. They choose not to wear the pride jersey and people are up in arms calling them bigots. Their culture tells them something is wrong, they probably agree with that sentiment and in the event they don't their family could face backlash for their opinions. Players should be allowed to support or not support whichever causes they want. I'm just tired of all these double standard arguments acting like one side is virtuous and the other is all hypocrites. Get rid of all the causes and just play the sport.

Actually, if you read what I said, I specifically used examples of ppl being overtly religious in public and not having an issue with it. If I go out to eat and the family next to us prays before eating, that's fine. If I go out to eat and the family next to us yells at me for not praying before I eat, that's an issue. 

Also in you totally ignore that I support players declining pride night jerseys or other specialty ones. However the nhl took the choice away from all players.