What Does KA have to accomplish for this off-season to be considered a success?

[GASabresIUFAN]

20 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

It's still quite possible IMHO that Comrie plays for the Sabres this season and plays quite well.

Yes it is possible with the most likely scenario being he starts the year in Rochester and gets recalled when an injury strikes in Buffalo. 

That said is anyone really comfortable with any of these scenarios heading into next season? 1. Levi/UPL tandem (53 games of NHL experience), 2. Levi/Comrie tandem (54 games of NHL experience)  3. UPL/Comrie (93 games), 4. levi/Comrie/UPL (100 games).  PS: In UPL’s and Comrie’s combined 93 games they carry a Save % of .898.

[Stoner]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

With KO, Z and Rousek re-signed and Jost also likely to return, KA is obviously going with a status quo forward group.  The team also now has a complete roster of players under contract with 13 forwards, 7 D and 3 G.  

In the presser KA admitted that the 3 headed goalie monster is a possibility next season. KA also said he is looking at possible deals that could involve our 1st rd pick.  He also stated that he is trying to lock up Dahlin and Power and rumor has it that the Dahlin deal is done.

Given this back dropped what more does KA have to do to have had a successful off-season and what additional moves would take the off-season from good to great?

Parsing your words, are you suggesting the offseason has already been good?

To answer your question... Here, not much.

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes it is possible with the most likely scenario being he starts the year in Rochester and gets recalled when an injury strikes in Buffalo. 

That said is anyone really comfortable with any of these scenarios heading into next season? 1. Levi/UPL tandem (53 games of NHL experience), 2. Levi/Comrie tandem (54 games of NHL experience)  3. UPL/Comrie (93 games), 4. levi/Comrie/UPL (100 games).  PS: In UPL’s and Comrie’s combined 93 games they carry a Save % of .898.

Not “comfortable” with any of them.

But I am far more “comfortable” with the possibility that Levi can give us 50 good games next year than I should be, or than I would be with, say, Freddie Andersen or someone else of that level.

And I can’t overlook the fact that the team went 17/11/4 with UPL last year, which is about as good as one can expect from a backup.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Parsing your words, are you suggesting the offseason has already been good?

To answer your question... Here, not much.

I think KA is off to a very good start especially if the Dahlin rumor is true.  I expected KO back and like the Rousek signing.  He upgraded the forward group at the deadline with Greenway. I’m more positive about the Z signing after hearing KA discuss his return.  However, the biggest dominoes have yet to fall. 

Despite what others may think, I’m very bullish on the Sabrex next year and I believe two smart moves could make us one of the elite teams in the NHL.

[dudacek]

Guess what I am saying is I would disagree with coming back with the same goalies we have, but that doesn’t mean the off-season was a failure if we do.

It means Adams has more faith in them than I do.

We can decide who was right when the season is over.

[mjd1001]

I said about a month ago I would be OK with the status quo PLUS 1 legit top 4 D-man and another prospect D-man for Rochester who is good enough to play for the Sabres in a pinch.  

Anything else, a big goalie move being what is a big topic right now on this board....isn't that big of a deal for me.  Just get a legit top-4 Dman and bringing back the rest of the gang is fine.  Girgensonss and Okposo aren't likely to be here next year, certainly not both of them, so the young guys will get their shot eventually.  If they force their way on to the team early by being light-out in a good way in camp so be it.

[GASabresIUFAN]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Guess what I am saying is I would disagree with coming back with the same goalies we have, but that doesn’t mean the off-season was a failure if we do.

It means Adams has more faith in them than I do.

We can decide who was right when the season is over.

@JohnC has said for months, that will return with the status quo goaltending.   However, I think that would be a mistake.  Teams have a limited window in a cap world and we are entering ours.  We no longer have time to risk more lousy goaltending.

You brought up Freddie Andersen, but lets play out his acquisition for a second.  You wouldn’t be comfortable with him as the primary starter, but what about a tandem of him and Levi vs Levi/UPL or Levi/Comrie?  
 

By the way UPL fell off a cliff in Feb and March when we needed him to play well. He went 3/6/2 in 12 games with a .870 save% and a 4.33 gaa.

Edited June 22, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[...]

26 minutes ago, dudacek said:

We can decide who was right when the season is over.

I think we'll have enough information to make a solid preliminary judgement long before the season is over.

[PromoTheRobot]

This is an impossibility. The man can't do enough to satisfy some people.

Just now, ... said:

I think we'll have enough information to make a solid preliminary judgement long before the season is over.

Like after the 4th preseason game.

[PromoTheRobot]

28 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Guess what I am saying is I would disagree with coming back with the same goalies we have, but that doesn’t mean the off-season was a failure if we do.

It means Adams has more faith in them than I do.

We can decide who was right when the season is over.

Adams is playing it cool. "Goalie? Naw, we're good... Unless you're offering something good."

He's looking. But he's not doing a Tim Murray.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@Weave

The analog I’d draw is you’re in HR for your company tasked with hiring a Sales Manager.  You list the job, interview internal and external candidates and hire the best candidate for the job.  When hired you don’t know for sure whether or not the person will succeed in the job, but you hire based on credentials.  There are no guarantees? But you still have to hire someone.

KA has two key jobs available without adequate internal applicants.  

In your analog you’ve decided that the hiring meant that they were successful in their job, but it doesn’t work that way.  The HR person isn’t deemed successful until the new Sales Manger shows a net increase in company revenues, ie.  make the playoffs.

KA may very well bet that the 3 headed goalie monster is the right play, and as much as I disagree with it, the correct answer won’t be know. Until everything plays out.  We could trade for Helle or Saro and find out they are a lousy fit, much worse than if we depended on the 3 headed monster.  You’d have already declared the offseason a win without ever considering actual performance because you put your grades in before the test began.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because i want to see others opinions.  It’s called a discussion.  Some might be satisfied if KA does nothing more this off-season.  Others might want more substantial restructuring of the defense.  Others are dissatisfied with the status quo forward group and want a 4th line center and some more physical forwards.  Others here want a coaching philosophy change and assurance that our young forwards backcheck.  Truthfully these are all valid opinions.

 

It just seems sometimes--like here and in the OEL thread--that you ask these questions and then jump at people who disagree with your preconceived answer.  Maybe I'm just reading you wrong.  And I agreed with you in part in that other thread, too.

Anyway, I'm w/ @Weave, I really don't think you can judge the off-season until about 20-30 games in, unless he does absolutely NOTHING, in which case I think he's open to criticism and possibly summary execution.

[GASabresIUFAN]

32 minutes ago, Weave said:

In your analog you’ve decided that the hiring meant that they were successful in their job, but it doesn’t work that way.  The HR person isn’t deemed successful until the new Sales Manger shows a net increase in company revenues, ie.  make the playoffs.

KA may very well bet that the 3 headed goalie monster is the right play, and as much as I disagree with it, the correct answer won’t be know. Until everything plays out.  We could trade for Helle or Saro and find out they are a lousy fit, much worse than if we depended on the 3 headed monster.  You’d have already declared the offseason a win without ever considering actual performance because you put your grades in before the test began.

Every move has risk as does doing nothing, because there are no guarantees nor can you expect them.   Would you rather KA do nothing and go with the current status quo roster or would you prefer he make changes to the current group such as acquiring a new defenseman or two and/or a new goaltender to pair with Levi?  That’s the real question this thread is asking.  You clearly want KA to go get better goaltending.  

 

[Eleven]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Would you rather KA do nothing and go with the current status quo roster or would you prefer he make changes to the current group such as acquiring a new defenseman or two and/or a new goaltender to pair with Levi?  That’s the real question this thread is asking.

 

 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

@JohnC has said for months, that will return with the status quo goaltending.   However, I think that would be a mistake.  Teams have a limited window in a cap world and we are entering ours.  We no longer have time to risk more lousy goaltending.

You brought up Freddie Andersen, but lets play out his acquisition for a second.  You wouldn’t be comfortable with him as the primary starter, but what about a tandem of him and Levi vs Levi/UPL or Levi/Comrie?  
 

By the way UPL fell off a cliff in Feb and March when we needed him to play well. He went 3/6/2 in 12 games with a .870 save% and a 4.33 gaa.

UPL also went 12/5/1 in December and January after the starters got hurt and the season looked like it might be over by Christmas again.

You can't cherry pick one way and ignore the other.

***

In a vacuum I would be much more comfortable this season with an Andersen/Levi combo than Devon with one of the others.

Outside the vacuum, it needs to be said out loud that acquiring another goalie means you are giving up on UPL. Plain and simple, you re telling him he's not good enough and you are going to have to waive him or trade him.

Sabrespace might be OK with that since most gave up on him at the same time they gave up on Casey Mittelstadt. But I'm not sure Adams has.

Also, the acquisition cost of Andersen (or anyone else) is not a make-or-break, but it matters.

One year $5 million for Freddie and trade UPL for a 2nd? All over that.

4 years at $5 for Freddie and waive UPL? I might be tempted to give UPL another shot.

Context matters.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 minutes ago, Eleven said:

It just seems sometimes--like here and in the OEL thread--that you ask these questions and then jump at people who disagree with your preconceived answer.  Maybe I'm just reading you wrong.  And I agreed with you in part in that other thread, too.

Anyway, I'm w/ @Weave, I really don't think you can judge the off-season until about 20-30 games in, unless he does absolutely NOTHING, in which case I think he's open to criticism and possibly summary execution.

I think you are misreading me.  In OEL people were dismissing the idea out of hand.  I took the other side of the argument because there are few ideas that should dismissed out of hand.  I made that mistake on Bogo and others and given our need to upgrade the defense I think KA would be smart to kick the tires on any D capable of upgrading our D especially someone as talented as OEL.  All you have to do is look at Karlsson, who rebounded significantly at 33, after two straight injury plagued seasons.

Here, I certainly have a definite opinion on what should done at a minimum this off-season, but I’m completely open to other ideas of what can be done to improve the team.  However saying that you don’t have an opinion until after the season is not completely honest.  Weave admitted he wants new goaltending.  Why not say, I want KA to get a new goalie, or this is my wish list.  I think your idea of saying lets grade him as the season progresses, but doing nothing is out of the question is a good one; although I’d still like to see which moves you want made.

 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Guess what I am saying is I would disagree with coming back with the same goalies we have, but that doesn’t mean the off-season was a failure if we do.

It means Adams has more faith in them than I do.

We can decide who was right when the season is over.

Bingo.

Would really like to see Adams bring in a veteran as there was a value to the Anderson being able to impart his wisdom and vision on the other goalies and the rest of the team as well and also because the probability that he'll be better than whichever of Comrie or UPL ends up the backup in lieu of an outsider brought in is high.

But, if he decides the cost of the outsider is too great he may very well run with the 3 headed monster (though personally doubt it actually plays out that way).  And the possibility that they may be moving on sooner from UPL than they'd planned might be part of the reason they reached for the goalie in the 2nd last year.  If they didn't see any D that were right for grabbing at that spot, well, can see why they didn't go F there as the pipeline is overflowing in that regard, so they grabbed the guy that they thought (for whatever evaluation criteria they use) was far and away the best goalie out of a questionable bunch.  Presumably by taking a goalie last year rather than this year, at least on paper, he's 1 year closer to the NHL than whomever they grab this year in a mid-round (though goalie development is far from linear and that presumption could be wildly off).

Personally, see the reaching for a goalie last year as giving in to either the possibility that they may have to move on from UPL before they wanted to due to circumstances or the possibility that Levi could end up walking like Portillo did.  They wanted to have SOMEBODY they thought might eventually be an NHLer in the pipeline as everybody else would either actually be in the NHL or gone (or both) or a very long shot to be an NHLer.

[GASabresIUFAN]

25 minutes ago, dudacek said:

UPL also went 12/5/1 in December and January after the starters got hurt and the season looked like it might be over by Christmas again.

You can't cherry pick one way and ignore the other.

***

In a vacuum I would be much more comfortable this season with an Andersen/Levi combo than Devon with one of the others.

Outside the vacuum, it needs to be said out loud that by acquiring another goalie means you are giving up on UPL. Plain and simple, you re telling him he's not good enough and you are going to have to waive him or trade him.

Sabrespace might be OK with that since most gave up on him at the same time they gave up on Casey Mittelstadt. But I'm not sure Adams has.

Also, the acquisition cost of Andersen (or anyone else) is not a make-or-break, but it matters.

One year $5 million for Freddie and trade UPL for a 2nd? All over that.

4 years at $5 for Freddie and waive UPL? I might be tempted to give UPL another shot.

Context matters.

 

 

Are we giving up on UPL? Maybe, but it also maybe an acknowledgement that Levi has already supplanted him as the top goalie prospect in the system and that UPL’s NHL future is best cultivated elsewhere.  It’s also an acknowledgment that putting a playoff caliber team in the hands of two raw goalies isn’t a smart way to proceed if you want to make the playoffs. 

There is also a compromise between the scenarios you mentioned.  That compromise is a 2-3 contract for the veteran goalie.  Ideally, you sign or acquire a vet, waive Comrie to Rochester and go with Levi and the vet.  

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[...]

24 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Sabrespace might be OK with that since most gave up on him at the same time they gave up on Casey Mittelstadt. But I'm not sure Adams has.

[inkman]

Stanley Cup.

 

 

Am I doing this right?

Edited June 22, 2023 by inkman

[Weave]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Every move has risk as does doing nothing, because there are no guarantees nor can you expect them.   Would you rather KA do nothing and go with the current status quo roster or would you prefer he make changes to the current group such as acquiring a new defenseman or two and/or a new goaltender to pair with Levi?  That’s the real question this thread is asking.  You clearly want KA to go get better goaltending.  

 

I would rather judge KAs offseason success after its had an opportunity to play out.

Id rather he picked up a starting goalie, a rugged stay at home D to pair with Power, and an NHL menace for the roster, but he may be more right than I if he stands pat.  You are so impulsive in your want for KA to “do something “.  I’m willing to see if what he does or doesn’t do work.  And if it doesn’t work I’m willing to wave goodbye to him.

[Thorner]

Whether his offseason was a success or not can only be determined based on the results of the season. That’s not a cop out, that’s the actual answer 

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, Weave said:

The only measuring stick for offseason success is a post season schedule.

I can wait to judge.

Ya

[Taro T]

40 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Whether his offseason was a success or not can only be determined based on the results of the season. That’s not a cop out, that’s the actual answer 

True, but that won't keep people from grading the off-season before the Sabres have put the opening night game t-shirts out in the bowl nor will it keep people from claiming with the utmost of certainty who wins and loses the draft next week by the following weekend.

[Zamboni]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

I would rather judge KAs offseason success after its had an opportunity to play out.

Id rather he picked up a starting goalie, a rugged stay at home D to pair with Power, and an NHL menace for the roster, but he may be more right than I if he stands pat.  You are so impulsive in your want for KA to “do something “.  I’m willing to see if what he does or doesn’t do work.  And if it doesn’t work I’m willing to wave goodbye to him.

Impulsive is right.