Around the NHL 2023 Summer Edition

[LabattBlue]

34 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Is there “love” though? I certainly could have missed it, but I just see a general liking as a depth guy, but nothing passionate or love for him.

I would think there is a spot as a 4th liner, or worst case a 13th forward in the NHL.  If not, my guess is he heads back to Sweden next season.  

[dudacek]

I liked Asplund a lot as a prospect: thought he was smart and hardworking. Never saw him as a key guy, but I did have hopes he could be a useful bottom 6 centre - kinda like some today project Kozak.

When push came to shove he wasn’t talented/fast/strong/mean enough to translate his game to the NHL level. 

Don’t know that he was overrated as a player (don’t recall much angst about him being benched or traded) as much as he never fulfilled his promise as a prospect.

[Taro T]

34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I liked Asplund a lot as a prospect: thought he was smart and hardworking. Never saw him as a key guy, but I did have hopes he could be a useful bottom 6 centre - kinda like some today project Kozak.

When push came to shove he wasn’t talented/fast/strong/mean enough to translate his game to the NHL level. 

Don’t know that he was overrated as a player (don’t recall much angst about him being benched or traded) as much as he never fulfilled his promise as a prospect.

All this.  Plus, he was part of That 70's Line that was clicking early in Granato's 1st year as the full time head coach.  Thought that on a bad team he could become a defensive conscience on a 2nd or 3rd line that could still chip in a few points or be a solid 4th liner on a good team.  Turns out he couldn't.  

It's ok.  As we know all too well, not all prospects reach nor come near the ceiling they project might be possible when they're young.

[Getpucksdeep]

Montreal @ Toronto tonight.  Scotiabank. There are a ton of Montreal fans in the building, noticeable cheers for Montreal goal.  Yeah it's a preseason game, and our barn is empty for them, but just surprised to see this degree of a takeover in that market.  

[Taro T]

20 minutes ago, Getpucksdeep said:

Montreal @ Toronto tonight.  Scotiabank. There are a ton of Montreal fans in the building, noticeable cheers for Montreal goal.  Yeah it's a preseason game, and our barn is empty for them, but just surprised to see this degree of a takeover in that market.  

NO STHers want to go to preseason games.  Every city has a diaspora.  As the preseason games are the ones they can not only obtain but get for reasonable prices, they tend to show up.

That's the theory at least.

[Getpucksdeep]

51 minutes ago, Taro T said:

NO STHers want to go to preseason games.  Every city has a diaspora.  As the preseason games are the ones they can not only obtain but get for reasonable prices, they tend to show up.

That's the theory at least.

Makes sense. I'm still ptsd after that oreilly game last year so taking a very little bit of solace seeing it.

[RochesterExpat]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Or perhaps Asplund was never as good as some people here  who frequently over value marginal players think.

Admittedly I liked him because he was here during the dark era and, at times, it felt like he was one of the only players giving an effort.

It’s the same reason I was more upset about losing Lazar than I was about Hall leaving and the unimpressive return. Lazar played the same every night regardless of whether he was the only Sabre on the ice trying. I’ll always have a soft spot for him as a result.

 

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I did have hopes he could be a useful bottom 6 centre - kinda like some today project Kozak.

Kinda like, but not anything like, Kozak.  Asplund was basically a marshmallow.

[Flashsabre]

Only preseason but Montreal score in the final minute to tie the Leafs then score a minute later in OT to beat them.

Hate to see it😃

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, RochesterExpat said:

Admittedly I liked him because he was here during the dark era and, at times, it felt like he was one of the only players giving an effort.

It’s the same reason I was more upset about losing Lazar than I was about Hall leaving and the unimpressive return. Lazar played the same every night regardless of whether he was the only Sabre on the ice trying. I’ll always have a soft spot for him as a result.

 

I liked that about Lazar as well. He played what, 2 (3?) years for Boston on the 4th line so they got a steal there. Threw a lot of hits for them too. If that guy could score more he'd have been a star. 

[LGR4GM]

11 hours ago, Taro T said:

All this.  Plus, he was part of That 70's Line that was clicking early in Granato's 1st year as the full time head coach.  Thought that on a bad team he could become a defensive conscience on a 2nd or 3rd line that could still chip in a few points or be a solid 4th liner on a good team.  Turns out he couldn't.  

It's ok.  As we know all too well, not all prospects reach nor come near the ceiling they project might be possible when they're young.

I keep saying to ppl look at the prospects we think will make it, now pick half of them and toss them out. The NHL shows you who's marginal and who's got it, it's the great equalizer. Asplund, never managed to take that final step. It's what worries me most about Rosen or kisakov or a few others. 

[Taro T]

13 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I keep saying to ppl look at the prospects we think will make it, now pick half of them and toss them out. The NHL shows you who's marginal and who's got it, it's the great equalizer. Asplund, never managed to take that final step. It's what worries me most about Rosen or kisakov or a few others. 

Absolutely, 50% of your high end prospects is about max of what you can expect to see play any significant role in the NHL.  That the Sabres have so many 1st round and early 2nd round prospects gives them the possibility to have a smidge over that hit.  And with something like 9 high pedigree high end prospects in the system, having 5 or 6 end up legit seems possible.  But at least 3 will hit, likely 4.  (Wouldn't be at all surprsed to see Benson, Savoie, Johnson, and at least 1 of Kulich, Rosen, Östlund, & the big Russian D-man become useful pieces.)  The future's so bright, gotta wear shades.

[PerreaultForever]

33 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Absolutely, 50% of your high end prospects is about max of what you can expect to see play any significant role in the NHL.  That the Sabres have so many 1st round and early 2nd round prospects gives them the possibility to have a smidge over that hit.  And with something like 9 high pedigree high end prospects in the system, having 5 or 6 end up legit seems possible.  But at least 3 will hit, likely 4.  (Wouldn't be at all surprsed to see Benson, Savoie, Johnson, and at least 1 of Kulich, Rosen, Östlund, & the big Russian D-man become useful pieces.)  The future's so bright, gotta wear shades.

I don't think having more of them increases our chances of beating that 50% number but right now, at this moment and assuming Levi Quinn and Peterka are already NHL, we have (eventually):

Benson - probable top 6

Kulich - possible top 6, probable top 9.

Johnson - probable 5/6 D

Savoie - can't say one way or the other

Rosen - maybe 3rd line. I still have my doubts. 

The rest, too soon to tell or nothing to say they are NHLers yet imo. 

If the first 3 make it and the rest don't is that 50%? Or does the 50% include Power and the other guys on the roster? 

In any event I think we are doing okay but the real drafting test for me is still landing those later round guys. If and when some of them make it, then we can talk becoming a dominant team and not just a good one.  

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't think having more of them increases our chances of beating that 50% number but right now, at this moment and assuming Levi Quinn and Peterka are already NHL, we have (eventually):

Benson - probable top 6

Kulich - possible top 6, probable top 9.

Johnson - probable 5/6 D

Savoie - can't say one way or the other

Rosen - maybe 3rd line. I still have my doubts. 

The rest, too soon to tell or nothing to say they are NHLers yet imo. 

If the first 3 make it and the rest don't is that 50%? Or does the 50% include Power and the other guys on the roster? 

In any event I think we are doing okay but the real drafting test for me is still landing those later round guys. If and when some of them make it, then we can talk becoming a dominant team and not just a good one.  

If the 3 of Kulich,  Benson, and savoie hit, that means Tuch, Tage, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Quinn, JJP and then those 3 are on the team. That's 10 forwards all with 50pt or more ability and 7 with 65+ ability. You don't even need any of the later round forwards to hit to have by next year a very deep and talented forwards group. 

[Flashsabre]

14 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I keep saying to ppl look at the prospects we think will make it, now pick half of them and toss them out. The NHL shows you who's marginal and who's got it, it's the great equalizer. Asplund, never managed to take that final step. It's what worries me most about Rosen or kisakov or a few others. 

Exhibit A: The L.A. Kings

for years we were told how great their prospect pool was. They really have not developed any of them into impact players. Some have been moved along some are just there languishing. 

History shows if you can move a couple of them for the right impact piece then you make the move. It’s the franchises that identify the right impact piece that are successful.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Flashsabre

[JustOneParade]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

Exhibit A: The L.A. Kings

for years we were told how great their prospect pool was. They really have not developed any of them into impact players. Some have been moved along some are just there languishing. 

History shows if you can move a couple of them for the right impact piece then you make the move. It’s the franchises that identify the right impact piece that are successful.

You touch on an interesting point - the role of the organization. In other words, if all 32 teams had the same prospect pool (hypothetically) would some have a better success rate, per Taro’s definition, than others? More importantly are the Sabres in a position as an organization to do better than the 50% figure?

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, JustOneParade said:

You touch on an interesting point - the role of the organization. In other words, if all 32 teams had the same prospect pool (hypothetically) would some have a better success rate, per Taro’s definition, than others? More importantly are the Sabres in a position as an organization to do better than the 50% figure?

To the first question, yes. Environment matters. If I take a tray of flowers and give some more and and some less water, some will flourish while others wilt. 

To the second, idk. Jury is still out. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If the 3 of Kulich,  Benson, and savoie hit, that means Tuch, Tage, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Quinn, JJP and then those 3 are on the team. That's 10 forwards all with 50pt or more ability and 7 with 65+ ability. You don't even need any of the later round forwards to hit to have by next year a very deep and talented forwards group. 

I don't think there's any question there is a high probability of a very talented forward group going forward. The question on the team's success is the same as it's been for a while. Can we keep the puck out of the net and can those forwards hold up and play through physical opponents. Some have shown that ability, but it all still remains to be seen. 

Losing 6-5 might be more entertaining than losing 2-0 but it'll still be losing. 

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't think there's any question there is a high probability of a very talented forward group going forward. The question on the team's success is the same as it's been for a while. Can we keep the puck out of the net and can those forwards hold up and play through physical opponents. Some have shown that ability, but it all still remains to be seen. 

Losing 6-5 might be more entertaining than losing 2-0 but it'll still be losing. 

I think you are vastly overplaying what happened when we played more physical teams while also vastly underrated how effective the Sabres were in their last stretch of 12-15 games of playing a 2 way game. I saw very few of the important forwards fail to hold up to physical play. I did see guys like Olofsson wilt though. JJP and Quinn seemed to be just fine by the end of the season. Tuch never cared, Skinner loves it, Tage sometimes gets thrown off. Cozens is constantly developing his physicality. I don't worry about it much. Clifton and Big Johnson will be better on defense and more physical than Bryson. 

[dudacek]

I’m sure I posted about this before, but to me the litmus test was the Florida teams.

Historically, any time we’d give them a game, they’d ratchet up the dirty and we’d wilt.

That didn’t happen last year, we matched them elbow for elbow and slash for slash.

(Head-to-head, I got a real sense that we may have passed Tampa last year. Hoping to see proof of that this year)

Cozens, Dahlin, Krebs…these guys aren’t skinny, timid little kids any more. They give as good as they get. Nobody is pushing around mammoth human beings like Tuch or Tage or Samuelsson. Erik Johnson and Jordan Greenway are 2 of the biggest men in the NHL who can actually play. Clifton and Stillman will pop you first. More importantly, these guys have each other’s backs.

There are 3 guys on the roster (4 if Benson makes it) that I worry about being able to show up when the bullets start flying - Jost, Bryson and Olofsson  - and none of them are likely to be everyday players..

This team is not going to be pushed around this year.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I think you are vastly overplaying what happened when we played more physical teams while also vastly underrated how effective the Sabres were in their last stretch of 12-15 games of playing a 2 way game. I saw very few of the important forwards fail to hold up to physical play. I did see guys like Olofsson wilt though. JJP and Quinn seemed to be just fine by the end of the season. Tuch never cared, Skinner loves it, Tage sometimes gets thrown off. Cozens is constantly developing his physicality. I don't worry about it much. Clifton and Big Johnson will be better on defense and more physical than Bryson. 

It's possible but I have to see it on the ice this year for real to believe it.  I still think a lot of teams didn't take us seriously at times last year and thus they didn't play as hard as they can. A number of teams in the division have beefed up on the bottom end partly for cap reasons and partly after watching Florida's playoff run. If the division is close and a dog fight we might see harder to play against hockey much sooner than the usual after the all star break stuff. 

Until I see it change on ice you can count on me complaining about net front presence and our inabilities in our own zone. 

[LabattBlue]

49 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Until I see it change on ice you can count on me complaining about net front presence and our inabilities in our own zone. 

Fair points. 

[Brawndo]

Bettman told the BOG that the very preliminary salary cap for 2024-25 is expected to rise to 87-88 million 

[thewookie1]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

Bettman told the BOG that the very preliminary salary cap for 2024-25 is expected to rise to 87-88 million 

Wonder if that will get Dahlin to sign

[Quint]

Hey, Cal Petersen just got put on waivers. 😕