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Marvin First Liner

Marvin

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

This isn't even factually accurate. 

Power isn't getting over 9 million. 

 

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I would at this point bridge Power rather than pay him over $9m at this point.

 

But he can justify a bit more. He's not Sanderson, he is slightly better in a few ways:

-Sanderson 5th overall pick, Power 1st overall pick. Slight advantage Power

-Sanderson started his NHL career at age 20, Power was good enough to start at 18. Slight advantage Power

-First full season for each last year, Sanderson 4g, 28a, -6.  Power 4g, 31a +10. Slight advantage Power.

-First full season, Power given/trusted with about 2 more minutes of Ice time per game. Advantage Power.

 

Maybe those things will or won't matter long term for who is better, but the metrics are what we have now, and all of them are slightly in Favor of Power and his agent will be using them all.  If I was Power/his agent, I know I would think based on the above I deserve about 10% more than Sanderson.

@LGR4GM I find @mjd1001's arguments very persuasive.  10% above $8.08M is a shade under $9M.  Why not a hair more than that.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Marvin said:

 

@LGR4GM I find @mjd1001's arguments very persuasive.  10% above $8.08M is a shade under $9M.  Why not a hair more than that.

Owen Power never played in the NHL at 18. That's straight up bs. His agent has almost 0 leverage especially with Dahlin in Buffalo. Think about it, the agent ways Power deserves 9 mill for 35pts when Dahlin gets 10.5 for 73? And on top of that the Sabres have more leverage than Ottawa because we have Dahlin. 

Power is from southern Ontario and is probably very happy his family gets to see him. Being a 1st versus a 5th overall pick is almost negligible in its importance 3 years after your draft. +/- needs to die. 

Power if he signs an 8 yr deal is going to get maybe 8.25 because that's about all being taken 4 picks earlier and being a year younger is probably worth. It's not going to be 10% nor should it. Also, Ottawa overpaid. 

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

What are you talking about.  I was replying to your post saying how can Power ask for $9m?  Did you even read your own post I was replying too? Of course it is not factually accurate. You asked how he could ask for $9m, and I was giving the case as to how he could ask for more than Sanderson. 

Follow the chain of the conversation for context people, especially when it is reply to your own post.

Owen Power never played in the NHL at 18 as you wrote. That's not true and it's factually inaccurate. 

Rasmus Dahlin did. Also had 73pts. Hard to argue that Dahlin is only worth 1.5 million more than Power.

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Scottysabres First Liner

Scottysabres

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Owen Power never played in the NHL at 18. That's straight up bs. His agent has almost 0 leverage especially with Dahlin in Buffalo. Think about it, the agent ways Power deserves 9 mill for 35pts when Dahlin gets 10.5 for 73? And on top of that the Sabres have more leverage than Ottawa because we have Dahlin. 

Power is from southern Ontario and is probably very happy his family gets to see him. Being a 1st versus a 5th overall pick is almost negligible in its importance 3 years after your draft. +/- needs to die. 

Power if he signs an 8 yr deal is going to get maybe 8.25 because that's about all being taken 4 picks earlier and being a year younger is probably worth. It's not going to be 10% nor should it. Also, Ottawa overpaid. 

Owen Power never played in the NHL at 18 as you wrote. That's not true and it's factually inaccurate. 

Rasmus Dahlin did. Also had 73pts. Hard to argue that Dahlin is only worth 1.5 million more than Power.

I stand with LG. My guess would be a bridge at 6/6.5 X 3/4 yrs. Power is going to want to cash in the same as Dahlin did based on his consistency in play. Just a guess, but if the organization is pushing for 8 yrs, 8 mil AAV is very reasonable line of thought.

JohnC First Liner

JohnC

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

I stand with LG. My guess would be a bridge at 6/6.5 X 3/4 yrs. Power is going to want to cash in the same as Dahlin did based on his consistency in play. Just a guess, but if the organization is pushing for 8 yrs, 8 mil AAV is very reasonable line of thought.

Why would Power sign a long term contract now? There is a reasonable assumption that the cap will go up in a few years. The strategy that Power should follow is the Dahlin model i.e. sign a bridge deal, get better with high-end stats when there is more money in the pot. By waiting to sign a longer term deal he will be in a good position to get a lot more money in the long run. 

Scottysabres First Liner

Scottysabres

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Why would Power sign a long term contract now? There is a reasonable assumption that the cap will go up in a few years. The strategy that Power should follow is the Dahlin model i.e. sign a bridge deal, get better with high-end stats when there is more money in the pot. By waiting to sign a longer term deal he will be in a good position to get a lot more money in the long run. 

I just guessed that. So, we agree.

Taro T Hall of Famer

Taro T

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I realize it will cost more down the road but a bridge deal potentially keeps him with the Sabres longer than signing for eight years now. A bridge deal plus 8 years keeps him in the fold for longer.

OR the bridge deal makes his 2nd "real" contract more problematic as he's now signing it in his early 30's rather than his late 20's.

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mjd1001 Second Liner

mjd1001

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Owen Power never played in the NHL at 18. That's straight up bs. His agent has almost 0 leverage especially with Dahlin in Buffalo. Think about it, the agent ways Power deserves 9 mill for 35pts when Dahlin gets 10.5 for 73? And on top of that the Sabres have more leverage than Ottawa because we have Dahlin. 

Power is from southern Ontario and is probably very happy his family gets to see him. Being a 1st versus a 5th overall pick is almost negligible in its importance 3 years after your draft. +/- needs to die. 

Power if he signs an 8 yr deal is going to get maybe 8.25 because that's about all being taken 4 picks earlier and being a year younger is probably worth. It's not going to be 10% nor should it. Also, Ottawa overpaid. 

Owen Power never played in the NHL at 18 as you wrote. That's not true and it's factually inaccurate. 

Rasmus Dahlin did. Also had 73pts. Hard to argue that Dahlin is only worth 1.5 million more than Power.

You are really reaching to split hairs to prove your right. Aren't you? Settle down a little bit. Stop making enemies by nitpicking on tiny facts and look at the big post overall. If he didn't play it 18... My error but the point still stands he played at a younger age than Sanderson and if he wasn't 18 he was 19. I just guess some people like you don't like being responded to with a different point of view than your own and you will search for a technicality to call someone else out on. Loosen up. It does make talking to other people and engaging in the message forums a bit more fun if everything is in a confrontation. At

 

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

Posted
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

You are really reaching to split hairs to prove your right. Aren't you? Settle down a little bit. Stop making enemies by nitpicking on tiny facts and look at the big post overall. If he didn't play it 18... My error but the point still stands he played at a younger age than Sanderson and if he wasn't 18 he was 19. I just guess some people like you don't like being responded to with a different point of view than your own and you will search for a technicality to call someone else out on. Loosen up. It does make talking to other people and engaging in the message forums a bit more fun if everything is in a confrontation. At

 

This is always the case when I point out flaws in someone's arguments. Personal attacks and the typical "settle down" nonsense. IMPO Your post was incorrect, I pointed that out and why I thought other subjective parts of your post would not be used. If you don't like it block me and be done with it. Yes Owen Power was 19 for about 15 NHL games before he turned 20. Idk how an agent uses that to get anywhere? It certainly doesn't equate to 10% more per year on the contract. I'll be sure to write "in my opinion" more often so you and others know I am giving my opinion. 

The FACT you have narrowed in on the age and ignored all the other reasons I think what you are saying is wrong is interesting. Basically this above post reads like projection. I would recommend you loosen up, settle down a little bit, stop nitpicking and looking at the bigger post overall. 

Let's do this then.

Power is younger. Sure but by not even 1 year (4 months), idk how an agent can leverage that much, other than claiming I guess that Power will be better long term than Sanderson cuz he showed it earlier? I think that is a tough sell from an agent for 2 guys that are 4 months apart in age (that's right your argument about playing in the NHL younger is based on 4 months of age difference). 

+/- could be used but you have a tough sell of it when Adams and company can point to the Sabres just outscoring Ottawa by buckets. Ottawa also had a negative goal differential so again I think in the scheme of selling that Power deserves 10% more this is a tough sell to the Sabres. Rasmus Dahlin was a -36 under Krueger for example but it wasn't because of Dahlin as much as the team he was on and the coaching he had.

Okay so then we have point totals, Sanderson had 32 and Power 35. Power played 2 more games so that argument blows up there. Well if Sanderson had played 2 more games he would have gotten the same amount would be any counter you want to use in all likelihood. TOI, if I were using that I would say that Sanderson is better than Power because he produced more in less TOI. TOI can basically inverted to show that Sanderson did more with less TOI just as much as it can show that Power got more and played more. I think you get a wash out there.

So, how does Owen Power's agent go to Adams and say Power is worth 9mil for his 35pts when Dahlin is getting somewhere between 10-10.5 for his 73pts? That is the next biggest hurdle and where this allll falls apart IMO. Dahlin, the biggest thing Buffalo has that Ottawa does not. 

My point or opinion if you will is that your arguments for why Sanderson is worth 10% less than Owen Power is weak and as the GM of the Sabres, I would push back on all those points.

On top of that Adams has leverage that Ottawa did not. Sanderson's agent could say "fine if you don't value my client we take bridges until we reach UFA or you trade us" and Ottawa has to give a bit, they don't have another Sanderson. What happens if Power's agent were to play that same card (same agent I think)? Hey Adams, if you don't give us 9mil for Power we walk! Adams, well I have Rasmus Dahlin so call me when you walk to wherever you are going and we will talk again. There is just less leverage and on top of that Sanderson is from Montana and Power is from Southern Ontario. Just saying that Power might be inclined to "settle" for 8mil when he gets to guarantee he plays about an hour from his family for the next decade. 

Personally if I were Owen Power, I would take a 2yr bridge and then get paid big when it ends and the cap is up and I am a 50pt all around defender. 

Edited by LGR4GM
LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

You are really reaching to split hairs to prove your right. Aren't you? Settle down a little bit. Stop making enemies by nitpicking on tiny facts and look at the big post overall. If he didn't play it 18... My error but the point still stands he played at a younger age than Sanderson and if he wasn't 18 he was 19. I just guess some people like you don't like being responded to with a different point of view than your own and you will search for a technicality to call someone else out on. Loosen up. It does make talking to other people and engaging in the message forums a bit more fun if everything is in a confrontation. At

 

Now to bolded. This is uncalled for and absurd. I wrote an entire post about why I thought the points you were using wouldn't work, the age thing was but 1 of them. 

I gave your point of view equal weight and I disagree with it. I am not going to apologize to you if you literally cannot handle a different viewpoint such as Power is not worth 10% more than Sanderson at this moment in time (9/11/2023). 

Which one of us is right? No idea, I think I am but time will tell and I could very well be wrong. If Power is not signed before the season begins, all of this is moot anyways. 

mjd1001 Second Liner

mjd1001

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Now to bolded. This is uncalled for and absurd. I wrote an entire post about why I thought the points you were using wouldn't work, the age thing was but 1 of them. 

I gave your point of view equal weight and I disagree with it. I am not going to apologize to you if you literally cannot handle a different viewpoint such as Power is not worth 10% more than Sanderson at this moment in time (9/11/2023). 

Which one of us is right? No idea, I think I am but time will tell and I could very well be wrong. If Power is not signed before the season begins, all of this is moot anyways. 

Whatever.  Learn to not always need to get the last word in to prove your point. Sometimes I let things go, but not when you are being such ar Hard *** about this.

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

This is always the case when I point out flaws in someone's arguments. Personal attacks and the typical "settle down" nonsense. IMPO Your post was incorrect, I pointed that out and why I thought other subjective parts of your post would not be used. If you don't like it block me and be done with it. Yes Owen Power was 19 for about 15 NHL games before he turned 20. Idk how an agent uses that to get anywhere? It certainly doesn't equate to 10% more per year on the contract. I'll be sure to write "in my opinion" more often so you and others know I am giving my opinion. 

The FACT you have narrowed in on the age and ignored all the other reasons I think what you are saying is wrong is interesting. Basically this above post reads like projection. I would recommend you loosen up, settle down a little bit, stop nitpicking and looking at the bigger post overall. 

Let's do this then.

Power is younger. Sure but by not even 1 year (4 months), idk how an agent can leverage that much, other than claiming I guess that Power will be better long term than Sanderson cuz he showed it earlier? I think that is a tough sell from an agent for 2 guys that are 4 months apart in age (that's right your argument about playing in the NHL younger is based on 4 months of age difference). 

+/- could be used but you have a tough sell of it when Adams and company can point to the Sabres just outscoring Ottawa by buckets. Ottawa also had a negative goal differential so again I think in the scheme of selling that Power deserves 10% more this is a tough sell to the Sabres. Rasmus Dahlin was a -36 under Krueger for example but it wasn't because of Dahlin as much as the team he was on and the coaching he had.

Okay so then we have point totals, Sanderson had 32 and Power 35. Power played 2 more games so that argument blows up there. Well if Sanderson had played 2 more games he would have gotten the same amount would be any counter you want to use in all likelihood. TOI, if I were using that I would say that Sanderson is better than Power because he produced more in less TOI. TOI can basically inverted to show that Sanderson did more with less TOI just as much as it can show that Power got more and played more. I think you get a wash out there.

So, how does Owen Power's agent go to Adams and say Power is worth 9mil for his 35pts when Dahlin is getting somewhere between 10-10.5 for his 73pts? That is the next biggest hurdle and where this allll falls apart IMO. Dahlin, the biggest thing Buffalo has that Ottawa does not. 

My point or opinion if you will is that your arguments for why Sanderson is worth 10% less than Owen Power is weak and as the GM of the Sabres, I would push back on all those points.

On top of that Adams has leverage that Ottawa did not. Sanderson's agent could say "fine if you don't value my client we take bridges until we reach UFA or you trade us" and Ottawa has to give a bit, they don't have another Sanderson. What happens if Power's agent were to play that same card (same agent I think)? Hey Adams, if you don't give us 9mil for Power we walk! Adams, well I have Rasmus Dahlin so call me when you walk to wherever you are going and we will talk again. There is just less leverage and on top of that Sanderson is from Montana and Power is from Southern Ontario. Just saying that Power might be inclined to "settle" for 8mil when he gets to guarantee he plays about an hour from his family for the next decade. 

Personally if I were Owen Power, I would take a 2yr bridge and then get paid big when it ends and the cap is up and I am a 50pt all around defender. 

You really need to get a new hobby if the reply I gave you caused this lengthy of a reply.  I can't and wont even read all of that.  I made my point, don't try so hard to always be right.

Edited by mjd1001
Flashsabre First Liner

Flashsabre

Posted
Posted

Babcock might not make opening night. These dinosaurs need to be kept extinct. Bill Peters being hired in the WHL shows these guys will continue to get opportunities long after they deserve them any longer.

Zamboni First Liner

Zamboni

Posted
Posted (edited)

I said it when Babcock was hired… Columbus and Philly will not do good this year. In part due to the lack of quality coaching.

Edited by Zamboni
Marvin First Liner

Marvin

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I said it when Babcock was hired… Columbus and Philly will not do good this year. In part due to the lack of quality coaching.

It makes me wonder how much of Babcock's coaching prowess was more about Niklas Lidstrom being an all-time great.

thewookie1 First Liner

thewookie1

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

I said it when Babcock was hired… Columbus and Philly will not do good this year. In part due to the lack of quality coaching.

Torts is a bit of a dinosaur but he does have his devoted fans (player-wise) that always will give me pause about his talent level in the modern NHL. Babcock seems to have all the negatives and few of the positives; most just running on his Cup ring. 

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