Around the NHL 2023 Summer Edition

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Again, I'm not talking about who is better right now, or was last year. I am talking about how much development is left for who you project to be on your team going forward.  The Sabres have a lot of young guys that may/might/should be part of this team going forward that still have a lot of development in the future. Savoie, Levi, Kulich, Rosen, Östlund, Kozak, Kisikov are all guys that have a ceiling that could be very good NHL players. On the roster you have Power, Quinn, Peterka also that have ceilings to be potential NHL players/goodplayers.   

They ALL have more 'development' in front of them than they do behind them.  Neither Detroit nor Ottawa have as many players with ceilings that high in their pipeline that have more development in front of them than behind them.  That is exactly how I am judging that the Sabres are 'behind' them in terms of development. Its not a bad thing...but it has zero to do with who is better now..it is just how much room there is between where the young players are and where their ceiling is..and just how many you have in that category.

I guess I understand. For me it just is a odd way to word it if that makes sense. Basically you are saying Buffalo has a higher ceiling and Detroit has a lower ceiling which they are rapidly approaching? Buffalo's floor has already surpassed Detroit's which is why I find the "behind them" part of this confusing terminology. 

[mjd1001]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I guess I understand. For me it just is a odd way to word it if that makes sense. Basically you are saying Buffalo has a higher ceiling and Detroit has a lower ceiling which they are rapidly approaching? Buffalo's floor has already surpassed Detroit's which is why I find the "behind them" part of this confusing terminology. 

Its hard to sometimes say what we mean when using words in the forum.  I am guilty of thinking I am getting a point across when maybe I'm not. 

Maybe I should have started with "The Sabres have more potential devleopment of young guys left/still to go compared to Detroit and Ottawa" instead of saying the other teams are ahead of them.

[Doohicksie]

20 hours ago, JohnC said:

The focus is now about winning over player development.

I'm not sure I agree.  They're definitely closer to Win Now, but there's also a ton of talent in the pipeline, plus the recently developed talent is assuming that veteran role, while still having upside.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I'm not sure I agree.  They're definitely closer to Win Now, but there's also a ton of talent in the pipeline, plus the recently developed talent is assuming that veteran role, while still having upside.

I understand what you are saying but I believe that there has been a shift to emphasizing winning over player development. For the most part, the organization is staying within the system for player staffing. But as was exhibited in the last number of games the playing time for players such as JJ, Lyubushkin and others were severely reduced in the playoff push. This team is at a more advanced stage compared to the past couple of years. There will certainly still be player development for the younger players but the emphasis will be on winning. 

[PerreaultForever]

9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I guess I understand. For me it just is a odd way to word it if that makes sense. Basically you are saying Buffalo has a higher ceiling and Detroit has a lower ceiling which they are rapidly approaching? Buffalo's floor has already surpassed Detroit's which is why I find the "behind them" part of this confusing terminology. 

Actually this "floor" thing is BS. Any team can crash and burn fast if things go badly. There are no guarantees in sports. 

What if Levi is nowhere near ready and falls apart, UPL sucks bad and Comrie gets hurt? No goaltending. Dahlin and Thompson get hurt long term early. In a heartbeat we could be bottom of the league and looking at the lottery. Anything can happen any year. The "floor" is always dead last. 

[dudacek]

14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

. The "floor" is always dead last. 

Even for Boston?

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Even for Boston?

How do you think they landed Thornton?

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Even for Boston?

Sure. Very unlikely but it's still the floor. EVERYTHING can go wrong any year. 

I'm not in any way saying we will fall to the bottom, but the idea that there's a "floor" established for a team (or player for that matter) is meaningless imo. Just like with your stocks and mutual funds, past performance does not guarantee future gains. 

[Doohicksie]

 

[PerreaultForever]

This is weird. I thought the whole thing was Dubas wanted complete control?

https://www.nhl.com/news/topic/news/doug-wilson-hired-by-pittsburgh-as-senior-adviser

 

[Eleven]

17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

This is weird. I thought the whole thing was Dubas wanted complete control?

https://www.nhl.com/news/topic/news/doug-wilson-hired-by-pittsburgh-as-senior-adviser

 

Maybe he's the senior advisor TO the general manager.

[Brawndo]

Here is a Power Comparison 

 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Here is a Power Comparison 

 

I said it months ago: there is no incentive for Power to sign for less than 8 million if he’s going to give the Sabres 8 years.

 

[#freejame]

16 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Here is a Power Comparison 

 

Going to be tough to get Power under $9M. 

[thewookie1]

4 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Going to be tough to get Power under $9M. 

Probably looking at 8.5 to 9.5 for 8 years now.

[LGR4GM]

20 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Going to be tough to get Power under $9M. 

There's always been a reason Adams hasn't spent a ton in UFA and it isn't because Pegula won't let him. Dahlin and Power are going to eat around 20-22% of the Sabres cap (at first) and that's gotta be budgeted for. 

[DarthEbriate]

This is why you don't wait to sign your top youngsters. Set the market or pay the consequences. (Edit: granted, for an 8-year deal it was likely going to be $8M minimum. But now you figure Power can ask 9.)

Edited September 7, 2023 by DarthEbriate

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

This is why you don't wait to sign your top youngsters. Set the market or pay the consequences. (Edit: granted, for an 8-year deal it was likely going to be $8M minimum. But now you figure Power can ask 9.)

How can Power ask for 9 when he's basically Sanderson at this point? 

Also pay the consequences? You're talking about a GM that pays Tage and Cozens 14 million a year,  combined. 

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

How can Power ask for 9 when he's basically Sanderson at this point? 

Also pay the consequences? You're talking about a GM that pays Tage and Cozens 14 million a year,  combined. 

That's why I think it'd be around 8.5 to 9 at most; he'll use his draft status as leverage.

[Flashsabre]

This is why you don’t want to have good players in your team. You have to pay them.😛

[sweetlou]

I'm still under the assumption that Dahlin will get $10-10.5 at eight years.

KA is trying to have Power sign a 3 year bridge around $6 million just like Dahlin did.  If he can produce the numbers over the next 4 years beside Dahlin, the the Sabres will give him the same 8 year $10.5 million as Dahlin.  This won't hurt as much because the cap would have gone up and the Skinner contract is off the books.  This also take Power into his early 30's before he is an UFA instead of 28 years old.

[sweetlou]

After Sanderson signing I wanted to compare Sens young core 6 with Sabres young core 6.  Who would you rather have?

Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Mitts, Dahlin, and Power at around $44 million. (Mitts 6.0, Dahlin 10.5, Power 8.5). 

or

Stutzle, B Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Chabot, and Sanderson at around $46 million.

 

Don't forget Sabres also have Quinn, JJP, Kulich, Savoi, and Benson waiting the wings!!

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

This is why you don't wait to sign your top youngsters. Set the market or pay the consequences. (Edit: granted, for an 8-year deal it was likely going to be $8M minimum. But now you figure Power can ask 9.)

The player has a say in contract talks. Just as Dahlin was smart in preferring a bridge deal that would give him more time to develop his talents and increase his value, that is probably what Power is going to do. There is no question that it is better for the organization to get a deal done sooner rather than later with its best players, but that isn't always in the best interest of the player. Tage and Cozens could have gotten a more lucrative deal if they would have waited but they didn't. They acted in their perceived best interests as is Dahlin and will Power.  

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

After Sanderson signing I wanted to compare Sens young core 6 with Sabres young core 6.  Who would you rather have?

Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Mitts, Dahlin, and Power at around $44 million. (Mitts 6.0, Dahlin 10.5, Power 8.5). 

or

Stutzle, B Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Chabot, and Sanderson at around $46 million.

 

Don't forget Sabres also have Quinn, JJP, Kulich, Savoi, and Benson waiting the wings!!

The Sabres core is better but it is closer than I would like. Stutzle and Tkachuk are really good and Batherson and Norris also have chances to be really good. That said, Chabot and Sanderson aren't Dahlin whereas I could argue that Tage and Cozens are Stutzle and Tkachuk (yes they play different styles). Sanderson and Power are similar but I think Power is underrated and this comes from a guy who didn't love Power in his draft year. 

As you also note, the Sabres have a ton of depth still to come and some of that will be very good including Quinn, JJP, Kulich, and Benson. 

[Buffalonill]

11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Here is a Power Comparison 

 

Welp I was Hoping they get power around 7m ..

That's out of the question now 

Damn