Around the NHL 2023 Summer Edition

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Tampa and the Islanders, as you said, are probably the safest bets.

Boston you can't rule out a major drop. Bergeron, Krecji, Bertuzzi, Hall, Orlov and Clifton are all possibly gone, and they played a major role on this team at some point. Marchand will be turning 36 later in season and he did have a slip in offensive production last year.  We are all tired of predicting the Bruins taking a step back, but it is a possibility.

Toronto is a great regular season team, but they are so top-heavy that all the need is a season ending injury to one of their top 4 and a half step back in goaltending and that would cause them to take a major step back.  Not that you can rely on it happening, but their season can change the most with injuries to their top 4.

 

I think the Sabres make up ground on these teams, beating them head to head will help a lot.

I don’t like thinking about other team’s injuries because while the Sabres depth is improving they can’t afford a significant injury to a core piece either.

I think with the improvement of some non playoff teams, there will be a chipping away of points of the top teams in the east. Two years ago the Caps were the 8th seed with 100 points while the Isles were 9th with 84.

Last year 92 got the Panthers in with the Sabres at 91.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Tampa and the Islanders, as you said, are probably the safest bets.

Boston you can't rule out a major drop. Bergeron, Krecji, Bertuzzi, Hall, Orlov and Clifton are all possibly gone, and they played a major role on this team at some point. Marchand will be turning 36 later in season and he did have a slip in offensive production last year.  We are all tired of predicting the Bruins taking a step back, but it is a possibility.

Toronto is a great regular season team, but they are so top-heavy that all the need is a season ending injury to one of their top 4 and a half step back in goaltending and that would cause them to take a major step back.  Not that you can rely on it happening, but their season can change the most with injuries to their top 4.

 

Tampa's going to miss Killorn. They fall for sure but how far idk. Could still be a playoff team. Islanders who knows? They are basically the same and never look great on paper but they plug along in that throwback style and they win those close games so who knows, they could be there again.

Boston is Boston. Krecji will not be back that's almost certain. If Bergeron doesn't come back things are iffy at center but as for the rest, they'll only miss Hall..  Remember they were winning a lot of games before they added Bertuzzi and Orlov. Clifton was a bottom end guy when they were healthy. They have enough D depth to handle that departure. If the goalies are good and Bergeron comes back their fall won't be as far as you might think. Definitely not a first place in the league team again but right out of the playoffs might be wishful thinking.

Toronto? Probably big regular season numbers as usual but that D isn't good and goaltending isn't very much to worry about. Wouldn't be surprised if they win the division and exit first round as usual. 

Ottawa and Florida are the question marks for me. Will Florida be a one and done and will Ottawa get it together? If one or both of them is good I don't see a way to get in unless some team has a horrific injury filled season and totally falls apart. 

and we do of course have to consistently beat Detroit, Pittsburgh and any other bubble team we will be competing with. Keep them from picking up loser points too. 

Biggest thing for us is to start winning regularly at home!

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Tampa's going to miss Killorn. They fall for sure but how far idk. Could still be a playoff team. Islanders who knows? They are basically the same and never look great on paper but they plug along in that throwback style and they win those close games so who knows, they could be there again.

Boston is Boston. Krecji will not be back that's almost certain. If Bergeron doesn't come back things are iffy at center but as for the rest, they'll only miss Hall..  Remember they were winning a lot of games before they added Bertuzzi and Orlov. Clifton was a bottom end guy when they were healthy. They have enough D depth to handle that departure. If the goalies are good and Bergeron comes back their fall won't be as far as you might think. Definitely not a first place in the league team again but right out of the playoffs might be wishful thinking.

Toronto? Probably big regular season numbers as usual but that D isn't good and goaltending isn't very much to worry about. Wouldn't be surprised if they win the division and exit first round as usual. 

Ottawa and Florida are the question marks for me. Will Florida be a one and done and will Ottawa get it together? If one or both of them is good I don't see a way to get in unless some team has a horrific injury filled season and totally falls apart. 

and we do of course have to consistently beat Detroit, Pittsburgh and any other bubble team we will be competing with. Keep them from picking up loser points too. 

Biggest thing for us is to start winning regularly at home!

Here's a thought, maybe Buffalo will be better? You know maybe the youngest team in the league last year will be better. Also I love you discounting Clifton as a 2nd pairing defender even though he played about 20 games in that role for Boston. Figured as a Boston guy you'd like connor. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Here's a thought, maybe Buffalo will be better? You know maybe the youngest team in the league last year will be better. Also I love you discounting Clifton as a 2nd pairing defender even though he played about 20 games in that role for Boston. Figured as a Boston guy you'd like connor. 

You really like to pick and choose don't you?  Almost a year ago now I said target Clifton in free agency and you said no, he sucks. Too small and not very good. But whatever, the fact I said we should get him first here means nothing to you so as usual, you are easily dismissed. 

read what I said about Clifton when we signed him. 

[LGR4GM]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You really like to pick and choose don't you?  Almost a year ago now I said target Clifton in free agency and you said no, he sucks. Too small and not very good. But whatever, the fact I said we should get him first here means nothing to you so as usual, you are easily dismissed. 

read what I said about Clifton when we signed him. 

Where do I say that? Seems very unlike me to label him small. 

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You really like to pick and choose don't you?  Almost a year ago now I said target Clifton in free agency and you said no, he sucks. Too small and not very good. But whatever, the fact I said we should get him first here means nothing to you so as usual, you are easily dismissed. 

read what I said about Clifton when we signed him. 

Do you consider him to be a second-pairing caliber of player? And do you consider that the additions of Johnson and Clifton to the team strengthens the unit? 

[JohninMinn.]

It's going to happen Buffalo boys and girls. It will be epic.

 

[Buffalonill]

3 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

It's going to happen Buffalo boys and girls. It will be epic.

 

I want nothing to do with Kane just let it die.

 

 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

Do you consider him to be a second-pairing caliber of player? And do you consider that the additions of Johnson and Clifton to the team strengthens the unit? 

On the team we had last year, yes, he's #4 on the depth chart. On a good team no, he's #6 or even #7. 

I said earlier "we are better" and the "D is better" BUT I don't think it's enough. 

[dudacek]

19 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

On the team we had last year, yes, he's #4 on the depth chart. On a good team no, he's #6 or even #7. 

I said earlier "we are better" and the "D is better" BUT I don't think it's enough. 

On the most successful regular season team in NHL history, Clifton was a 4 who dropped to 5 after they picked up Orlov.

On the Colorado Stanley Cup championship playoff run, Eric Johnson was the 5.

It seems to me hockey fans think there are about 20 1st-pairing defencemen and maybe 50 guys who are top 4.

[Flashsabre]

43 minutes ago, dudacek said:

On the most successful regular season team in NHL history, Clifton was a 4 who dropped to 5 after they picked up Orlov.

On the Colorado Stanley Cup championship playoff run, Eric Johnson was the 5.

It seems to me hockey fans think there are about 20 1st-pairing defencemen and maybe 50 guys who are top 4.

Most people don’t even know what a #4 or a #5 is.

Im fine with Clifton and Johnson. How the d corps will be deployed will be interesting. I bet there will be games where they go:

Dahlin-Johnson

Power-Clifton

Muel-Joker/Boosh

I think there is one more move coming. Being it moving a couple dmen out for a different dman or moving out pieces for a goalie.

[PerreaultForever]

47 minutes ago, dudacek said:

On the most successful regular season team in NHL history, Clifton was a 4 who dropped to 5 after they picked up Orlov.

On the Colorado Stanley Cup championship playoff run, Eric Johnson was the 5.

It seems to me hockey fans think there are about 20 1st-pairing defencemen and maybe 50 guys who are top 4.

No, Gryzlek was 4. Clifton was bottom pairing when everybody was healthy before Orlov got there. 

I will say this though. Bruins always viewed Clifton as too small, but he got his chance a few years back when they had like 5 D injured at the same time (maybe more) and Clifton got in and impressed and he's a real competitor. He made himself hard to take out of the line up and he was capable of filling in with the top 4 when needed. Where he played in the line up became more about pairings/style than his relative ability to the other defenders. 

That's my biggest fear with Clifton actually, that he will compete too hard and try to do too much and in our (lack of a good) defensive system he might get caught out of position and lose a bit of his game. Hopefully not. 

Johnson's fine, it's just a question of age and what's left. 

 

[Buffalonill]

21 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Most people don’t even know what a #4 or a #5 is.

Im fine with Clifton and Johnson. How the d corps will be deployed will be interesting. I bet there will be games where they go:

Dahlin-Johnson

Power-Clifton

Muel-Joker/Boosh

I think there is one more move coming. Being it moving a couple dmen out for a different dman or moving out pieces for a goalie.

He wouldn't be able to Handle it I doubt Buffalo brought him in thinking he was going to be in top 4 or help in that area it's just for the leadership 

[dudacek]

43 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

No, Gryzlek was 4. Clifton was bottom pairing when everybody was healthy before Orlov got there. 

I will say this though. Bruins always viewed Clifton as too small, but he got his chance a few years back when they had like 5 D injured at the same time (maybe more) and Clifton got in and impressed and he's a real competitor. He made himself hard to take out of the line up and he was capable of filling in with the top 4 when needed. Where he played in the line up became more about pairings/style than his relative ability to the other defenders. 

That's my biggest fear with Clifton actually, that he will compete too hard and try to do too much and in our (lack of a good) defensive system he might get caught out of position and lose a bit of his game. Hopefully not. 

Johnson's fine, it's just a question of age and what's left. 

 

Grelczyk got 17:14 a game, Clifton got 17:51

It was because of McAvoy’s Injury of course, but Clifton actually ranked 3rd on the Bruins in terms of total ice time last year, behind only Lindholm and Pastrnak.

Edited July 9, 2023 by dudacek

[Derrico]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

On the most successful regular season team in NHL history, Clifton was a 4 who dropped to 5 after they picked up Orlov.

I keep reading this but I don’t see that in the game logs based on time on ice.  I will be up front and admit I have no idea Boston’s depth chart but Clifton rarely played 20 minutes or more per game even long before Orlov came.

For reference Joker was our number 4 and he regularity played more than 20 minutes per game.  

Especially if Clifton can play on the PK as I’ve read on here, why was he rarely playing 20 minutes per game if he’s a second pairing penalty killer?

https://www.rotowire.com/hockey/player/connor-clifton-5684
 

Joker for reference https://www.rotowire.com/hockey/player/henri-jokiharju-5426

Edited July 9, 2023 by Derrico

[Scottysabres]

25 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I keep reading this but I don’t see that in the game logs based on time on ice.  I will be up front and admit I have no idea Boston’s depth chart but Clifton rarely played 20 minutes or more per game even long before Orlov came.

For reference Joker was our number 4 and he regularity played more than 20 minutes per game.  

Especially if Clifton can play on the PK as I’ve read on here, why was he rarely playing 20 minutes per game if he’s a second pairing penalty killer?

https://www.rotowire.com/hockey/player/connor-clifton-5684
 

Joker for reference https://www.rotowire.com/hockey/player/henri-jokiharju-5426

This statistic back up what many on the Boston boards on HF and the NHL Bruins forum site have said. Very good 5 / 6 d man.

Then again, maybe our analytics guru's can bring some clarity. And of course, I'm interested in the "Meatballs Affect", what the coach and his staff are looking to do if Clifton is in our top 4. Same with Johnson for that matter. I just don't know nearly enough about the variables involved, again, if 1 or both of these players are expected in the top 4 d, to not be skeptical. But maybe they surprise, or another move is coming, who knows.

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

He wouldn't be able to Handle it I doubt Buffalo brought him in thinking he was going to be in top 4 or help in that area it's just for the leadership 

Yeah that’s why I said some games. Not a regular thing but here and there depending on the circumstances.

still think Muel-Dahlin will be the first pair most nights.

[Buffalonill]

24 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Yeah that’s why I said some games. Not a regular thing but here and there depending on the circumstances.

still think Muel-Dahlin will be the first pair most nights.

You're most likely right I'm just hoping muel stays healthy but seeing how his career has gone it doesn't look like that will happen sadly 

[Weave]

According to Hockey Reference, Clifton was 5th among D men in ATOI, with Orlov above him.  So its pretty safe to call Clifton a #4 D man for Boston before the arrival of Orlov.

If you sort by total TOI he’s easily 4.

[thewookie1]

Clifton honestly doesn’t even need to be a true 4D, he just needs to mesh with Power well. If they hit it off, it won’t matter Clifton’s skill level since Power will make up any minor shortfalls. 
 

Eric Johnson isn’t capable of playing Top 4 minutes anymore aside a brief stint of due to injuries. He did however have to play Top 4 in the Playoffs two years ago in their Cup Run due to Girard’s injury. So in a pinch, he still has the mental acuity to play Top 4 briefly.

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

According to Hockey Reference, Clifton was 5th among D men in ATOI, with Orlov above him.  So its pretty safe to call Clifton a #4 D man for Boston before the arrival of Orlov.

If you sort by total TOI he’s easily 4.

My guess is he’s a 4-5 guy, usually 3rd pairing but plays 3-4 mins due to PK responsibilities

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Clifton honestly doesn’t even need to be a true 4D, he just needs to mesh with Power well. If they hit it off, it won’t matter Clifton’s skill level since Power will make up any minor shortfalls. 
 

Eric Johnson isn’t capable of playing Top 4 minutes anymore aside a brief stint of due to injuries. He did however have to play Top 4 in the Playoffs two years ago in their Cup Run due to Girard’s injury. So in a pinch, he still has the mental acuity to play Top 4 briefly.

My guess is he’s a 4-5 guy, usually 3rd pairing but plays 3-4 mins due to PK responsibilities

1:07 ave for PK time.  He was probably 2nd unit.  He was a 4 for Boston.  It is hardly debatable.

[Taro T]

30 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Clifton honestly doesn’t even need to be a true 4D, he just needs to mesh with Power well. If they hit it off, it won’t matter Clifton’s skill level since Power will make up any minor shortfalls. 
 

Eric Johnson isn’t capable of playing Top 4 minutes anymore aside a brief stint of due to injuries. He did however have to play Top 4 in the Playoffs two years ago in their Cup Run due to Girard’s injury. So in a pinch, he still has the mental acuity to play Top 4 briefly.

My guess is he’s a 4-5 guy, usually 3rd pairing but plays 3-4 mins due to PK responsibilities

Especially when Samuelsson ISN'T a true 2 (though he could be someday) but he looks like one when paired with Dahlin; having Clifton play with Power could very well have him looking like a legit 4 (especially when you look at his strengths/weaknesses and compare them to OPs).  And then you can come up with a 3rd pairing using 2 of Johnson/Jokiharju/Lyubushkin.  They all should be quite solid if not downright good in a 3rd pairing role when not forced to drag a 7, 8, or 10 around the ice with him.

And that presumes Adams is done working on the D which may or may not be the case.

As long as Clifton plays like a legit 4 when playing next to the kid, does it really matter if he's a 4, 5, or a 6?  He's definitely (IMHO) an every day NHL D-man so he's at least a 6.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

Clifton honestly doesn’t even need to be a true 4D, he just needs to mesh with Power well. If they hit it off, it won’t matter Clifton’s skill level since Power will make up any minor shortfalls. 
 

Eric Johnson isn’t capable of playing Top 4 minutes anymore aside a brief stint of due to injuries. He did however have to play Top 4 in the Playoffs two years ago in their Cup Run due to Girard’s injury. So in a pinch, he still has the mental acuity to play Top 4 briefly.

My guess is he’s a 4-5 guy, usually 3rd pairing but plays 3-4 mins due to PK responsibilities

Clifton is going to be the #4 in Buffalo. 

[thewookie1]

58 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Clifton is going to be the #4 in Buffalo. 

Well yes, I already understand that lol. I honestly think he can do it.

[Flashsabre]

Debrincat to Wings for Kubalik, Sebrango cond. 1st.  Signed 4 year extension