Rasmus close to extension at $10M per

[Flashsabre]

4 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Term can be about uncertainty about the franchise's direction.

A bigger pod than Doohickie. Didn't see that coming.

What is the problem with the franchise’s direction? They are in better shape then they have been in 15 years. 

This just seems like taking something and twisting it so you can shine your light on your narrative of hating the team.

[Porous Five Hole]

58 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Cap wise, their stars all went for money and have handcuffed them for years now

That’s pro sports. No one forced the team into anything.  
Credit to KA for getting to Tage & Cozens early. Dahlin is a top 5-10 D with room to grow. Market value is what it is given his age/contract and I would rather have him than not. 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Cap wise, their stars all went for money and have handcuffed them for years now

Of course the stars went for the money. Their star players went for contracts commensurate with their value in the league. What did you expect? The Nylander and Tavares were bad deals that the organization made. Bad decisions by the front office and poor cap management. That's not a player problem; it's an organization problem.  

[thewookie1]

17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Of course the stars went for the money. Their star players went for contracts commensurate with their value in the league. What did you expect? The Nylander and Tavares were bad deals that the organization made. Bad decisions by the front office and poor cap management. That's not a player problem; it's an organization problem.  

Players who want to win will take slight pay cut to win; I'm not saying a player takes half what he's worth but rather shaves a bit off the AAV to help the team bring in the vital pieces that put them over the line.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

Players who want to win will take slight pay cut to win; I'm not saying a player takes half what he's worth but rather shaves a bit off the AAV to help the team bring in the vital pieces that put them over the line.

Players, like organizations, make decisions based on their best interests. If a player decides to take less $$$ for whatever reason, then that is a decision he will make.  If a player decides not to take less and move on, then so be it. It's a business with a short life span.  Contracts/value and cap space are issues that all franchises have to contend with in all sports. I don't begrudge any player who pursues his own best interest when making a contract decision. 

[thewookie1]

26 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Players, like organizations, make decisions based on their best interests. If a player decides to take less $$$ for whatever reason, then that is a decision he will make.  If a player decides not to take less and move on, then so be it. It's a business with a short life span.  Contracts/value and cap space are issues that all franchises have to contend with in all sports. I don't begrudge any player who pursues his own best interest when making a contract decision. 

I begrudge players who choose greed over victory.

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I begrudge players who choose greed over victory.

Yeah, the free market is awesome until it works in a way that we don’t like.

[thewookie1]

19 minutes ago, Weave said:

Yeah, the free market is awesome until it works in a way that we don’t like.

I frankly don't care what players make, I care about winning. I'll never support players making more money if it effects the team's ability to achieve success.

Some of you guys seem almost giddy by the idea that Dahlin wants to take us to the cleaner potentially. Unless he's paying you guys, it makes no difference to our wallets and if it weren't cap related I really wouldn't care. Whomever has the money, Dahlin or Pegula, it doesn't matter to me.

It will never make sense to me why anyone wants the team to suffer for some personal grudge against the Pegulas or Buffalo; if so just leave the fanbase because you aren't a fan then. 

[Zamboni]

7 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I frankly don't care what players make, I care about winning. I'll never support players making more money if it effects the team's ability to achieve success.

Some of you guys seem almost giddy by the idea that Dahlin wants to take us to the cleaner potentially. Unless he's paying you guys, it makes no difference to our wallets and if it weren't cap related I really wouldn't care. Whomever has the money, Dahlin or Pegula, it doesn't matter to me.

It will never make sense to me why anyone wants the team to suffer for some personal grudge against the Pegulas or Buffalo; if so just leave the fanbase because you aren't a fan then. 

Oh there are definitely fans on this very forum that don’t like Skinner because he makes so much money. More hypercritical of anything he might do wrong because of the money he makes. They have this internal pay structure in their mind, and if that structure exceeds what they think is fair, then the pitchforks come out every time they do something wrong. I personally find it strange. Because like you said it makes no difference. I’m going to be charged the same ticket price if Dahlin is over paid or Skinner is over paid or any player is overpaid.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Oh there are definitely fans on this very forum that don’t like Skinner because he makes so much money. More hypercritical of anything he might do wrong because of the money he makes. They have this internal pay structure in their mind, and if that structure exceeds what they think is fair, then the pitchforks come out every time they do something wrong. I personally find it strange. Because like you said it makes no difference. I’m going to be charged the same ticket price if Dahlin is over paid or Skinner is over paid or any player is overpaid.

And, at the end of the day, the players (collectively, across all 32 teams) will bring in the exact same amount regardless of who gets a big slice of the pie and who gets the proverbial crumbs.

It would be nice to see Dahlin agree to an 8 year deal at $10.5/ because it would leave more room under the cap than if he ends up at $12/ but personally don't begrudge him anything he gets.

And, ironically, Skinner being overpaid from '21 through '23 helped them avoid signing additional Ben Bishops or Johnny Boychuks.  So, if anything, it was a good thing he was overpaid.  And, he really isn't all that much overpaid anymore now that the STT line is a thing.

[shrader]

I thought I heard that Fantasy Island closed but apparently it lives on in here. 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

I thought I heard that Fantasy Island closed but apparently it lives on in here. 

Fun?  WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Weave]

9 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I frankly don't care what players make, I care about winning. I'll never support players making more money if it effects the team's ability to achieve success.

Some of you guys seem almost giddy by the idea that Dahlin wants to take us to the cleaner potentially. Unless he's paying you guys, it makes no difference to our wallets and if it weren't cap related I really wouldn't care. Whomever has the money, Dahlin or Pegula, it doesn't matter to me.

It will never make sense to me why anyone wants the team to suffer for some personal grudge against the Pegulas or Buffalo; if so just leave the fanbase because you aren't a fan then. 

This is the cost of having stars on the roster.  You want stars, but you don’t want their contracts.  That is irrational.  Dahlin could be giving up 10s of millions of dollars signing long term vs signing mid term and becoming a UFA at a relatively young age. You can’t expect that.  Well, YOU can.  But it just isn’t the way these things work.  He’s no more being greedy than the owner trying to maximize HIS value.  

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Weave

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

This is the cost of having stars on the roster.  You want stars, but you don’t want their contracts.  That is irrational.  Dahlin could be giving up 10s of millions of dollars signing long term vs signing mid term and becoming a UFA at a relatively young age. You can’t expect that.  Well, YOU can.  But it just isn’t the way these things work.  He’s no more being greedy than the owner trying to maximize HIS value.  

 

Again you seem far too pro-player. Every statement you have made this far feels like you want Dahlin to demand his full value and look for a short contract because he can. 

Also, it’s not I don’t want stars to be paid; I want them to take contracts that are fair and can help the team as well. Tampa is a good example of this. I’m not asking him to take 8x6mil. 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Again you seem far too pro-player. Every statement you have made this far feels like you want Dahlin to demand his full value and look for a short contract because he can. 

Also, it’s not I don’t want stars to be paid; I want them to take contracts that are fair and can help the team as well. Tampa is a good example of this. I’m not asking him to take 8x6mil. 

 Why shouldn't someone who is in demand, ask for their full value? 

Further more since you brought up Tampa. Hedman signed for about 10.5% of the cap when he did his last deal. In today's dollars that would be about 9.2million if the cap goes up to 87.5million next year. Adding 1million more to that number brings you up to 12% of the cap. Point and Kucherov make 11.4% of the current cap. Eichel makes 12% of the cap, Stone makes 11.4% of the cap. Makar currently makes 10.4% of the cap. 

My point is that the cap% number for Dahlin says he should get around 10-10.25 if the cap is truly going up to 87.5million. That would put his number right in along with what we see from other stars and all those teams I picked won cups recently. While the players (as far as I could tell) were signed to those deals and on the teams. 10.5 is probably a little high but anything 10.25 or less is right in line with what we should expect and keep in mind the 10.5 would only be slightly high for a year. 

[tom webster]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 Why shouldn't someone who is in demand, ask for their full value? 

Further more since you brought up Tampa. Hedman signed for about 10.5% of the cap when he did his last deal. In today's dollars that would be about 9.2million if the cap goes up to 87.5million next year. Adding 1million more to that number brings you up to 12% of the cap. Point and Kucherov make 11.4% of the current cap. Eichel makes 12% of the cap, Stone makes 11.4% of the cap. Makar currently makes 10.4% of the cap. 

My point is that the cap% number for Dahlin says he should get around 10-10.25 if the cap is truly going up to 87.5million. That would put his number right in along with what we see from other stars and all those teams I picked won cups recently. While the players (as far as I could tell) were signed to those deals and on the teams. 10.5 is probably a little high but anything 10.25 or less is right in line with what we should expect and keep in mind the 10.5 would only be slightly high for a year. 

The cap will be $100M before Rasmus’ contract is up. The smart guys should follow Matthew’s ’ example and go short term. The problem is there agents have dual motives and are pushing for long term deals which should ultimately benefit the Sabres.

[nfreeman]

But it sounds like Dahlin wants a shorter deal, so he can cash in again in 5 years while still in his prime, and the Sabres want the full 8.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

Again you seem far too pro-player. Every statement you have made this far feels like you want Dahlin to demand his full value and look for a short contract because he can. 

Also, it’s not I don’t want stars to be paid; I want them to take contracts that are fair and can help the team as well. Tampa is a good example of this. I’m not asking him to take 8x6mil. 

Define fair.  Is full market value not fair?

and as far as your assertion that I sound like I want Dahlin to bend over the team, far from it.  I just expect that any given player is going to negotiate for the deal that is in their best interests, just as any team will do.  And frankly, labeling them greedy is simplistic.  Would you leave millions on the table to keep a co-worker on your work group?  No.  You won’t.  Why should you expect different of someone else?

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

 Why shouldn't someone who is in demand, ask for their full value? 

Further more since you brought up Tampa. Hedman signed for about 10.5% of the cap when he did his last deal. In today's dollars that would be about 9.2million if the cap goes up to 87.5million next year. Adding 1million more to that number brings you up to 12% of the cap. Point and Kucherov make 11.4% of the current cap. Eichel makes 12% of the cap, Stone makes 11.4% of the cap. Makar currently makes 10.4% of the cap. 

My point is that the cap% number for Dahlin says he should get around 10-10.25 if the cap is truly going up to 87.5million. That would put his number right in along with what we see from other stars and all those teams I picked won cups recently. While the players (as far as I could tell) were signed to those deals and on the teams. 10.5 is probably a little high but anything 10.25 or less is right in line with what we should expect and keep in mind the 10.5 would only be slightly high for a year. 

This is what I mean, Hedman signed for 7/8 years and what was 12%.

Even if he signs 6x10.5 he'd be well within his peers in terms of money and term.

13 minutes ago, Weave said:

Define fair.  Is full market value not fair?

and as far as your assertion that I sound like I want Dahlin to bend over the team, far from it.  I just expect that any given player is going to negotiate for the deal that is in their best interests, just as any team will do.  And frankly, labeling them greedy is simplistic.  Would you leave millions on the table to keep a co-worker on your work group?  No.  You won’t.  Why should you expect different of someone else?

In most cases no, but hockey players don't work in a traditional business. If I were a player, I'd want money but also to win a Cup. (Unlike most businesses, the workers want to achieve the "company" goal) So my target in any negotiation would be to acquire a front loaded contract with 6+ years with NMC protections. If I were Dahlin I'd personally ask for 10.5/11 mil for 6/7 years and a NMC. Invest as much of my signing bonus etc and then profit. The slight loss I take from not going shorter or higher capped will be made less troublesome by %rates while also keeping my cap hit reasonable.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

But it sounds like Dahlin wants a shorter deal, so he can cash in again in 5 years while still in his prime, and the Sabres want the full 8.

Has anyone except Peters reported this/

[nfreeman]

Not to my knowledge.  I was just responding to the assertion that it was the agents that are pushing for LT deals — I don’t think this makes sense in the context of Dahlin though as it seems almost certain that the Sabres would want the full 8 years.  

[Weave]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

This is what I mean, Hedman signed for 7/8 years and what was 12%.

Even if he signs 6x10.5 he'd be well within his peers in terms of money and term.

In most cases no, but hockey players don't work in a traditional business. If I were a player, I'd want money but also to win a Cup. (Unlike most businesses, the workers want to achieve the "company" goal) So my target in any negotiation would be to acquire a front loaded contract with 6+ years with NMC protections. If I were Dahlin I'd personally ask for 10.5/11 mil for 6/7 years and a NMC. Invest as much of my signing bonus etc and then profit. The slight loss I take from not going shorter or higher capped will be made less troublesome by %rates while also keeping my cap hit reasonable.

“Slight loss” Might be 10s of millions based on 8yrs vs a shorter path and younger age at UFA.

[shrader]

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

The cap will be $100M before Rasmus’ contract is up. The smart guys should follow Matthew’s ’ example and go short term. The problem is there agents have dual motives and are pushing for long term deals which should ultimately benefit the Sabres.

I can't go so far to say that it's the smart move.  There is a risk associated with taking that shorter deal.  I'd also think that getting that money into the smart guys hands as early as possible, they can balance out the couple extra million they may be able to make after gambling on the shorter deal.

[Buffalonill]

So any update on this Situation ?

 

[LabattBlue]

Just now, Buffalonill said:

So any update on this Situation ?

 

Not as close as previously thought?