2023 Stanley Cup Finals: Florida vs Vegas

[Eleven]

9 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Just wondering: was the start date of the Final set ages ago?  I saw a schedule earlier today from the end of the regular season that had Saturday as the unconditional date for Game 1.

If so, that's even more stupid than usual from the NHL.

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I'm rooting for the Panthers.  Reino (and Montour, for that matter) dissed us less on his way out the door than Eichel did, I really like Barkov's game, I like the Bobrovsky redemption story, I like Miami and I like that metro area becoming a hockey town, which I think will happen if the team stays good for a few years.

Part I:  How can anyone not love Samson?

Part II:  ***** Miami and it isn't a hockey town and never will be.  And the state it's in is governed by someone whom even you must appreciate is a complete dictator.  

 

Yeah I'm rooting for Samson, not for Florida.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Eleven

[nfreeman]

26 minutes ago, Eleven said:

If so, that's even more stupid than usual from the NHL.

Part I:  How can anyone not love Samson?

Part II:  ***** Miami and it isn't a hockey town and never will be.  And the state it's in is governed by someone whom even you must appreciate is a complete dictator.  

 

Yeah I'm rooting for Samson, not for Florida.

Leaving aside your other observation about Florida, and fervently hoping that these nuggets don't increasingly find their way into your posts as we approach 2024, I will note that Tampa is at or close to the top of the NHL in attendance every year -- and Miami is a much bigger and wealthier market, with more Northern (US and GWN) transplants. 

So while I agree that Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Del Boca Vista won't become a hockey town like Buffalo once was or Montreal is permanently, I would like to see it become a hockey town in the vein of a smaller NYC -- i.e. one where hockey isn't by any means the biggest show in town, but where hockey nevertheless has a dedicated, passionate and multitudinous fan base that fills the arena with a raucous crowd every night.

[MattPie]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Leaving aside your other observation about Florida, and fervently hoping that these nuggets don't increasingly find their way into your posts as we approach 2024, I will note that Tampa is at or close to the top of the NHL in attendance every year -- and Miami is a much bigger and wealthier market, with more Northern (US and GWN) transplants. 

So while I agree that Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Del Boca Vista won't become a hockey town like Buffalo once was or Montreal is permanently, I would like to see it become a hockey town in the vein of a smaller NYC -- i.e. one where hockey isn't by any means the biggest show in town, but where hockey nevertheless has a dedicated, passionate and multitudinous fan base that fills the arena with a raucous crowd every night.

If the nugget fits...

[LTS]

7 minutes ago, MattPie said:

If the nugget fits...

It belongs elsewhere.

I love hockey.  As such, I love hockey growing in higher population markets. It's really that simple for me.

[Eleven]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

and Miami is a much bigger and wealthier market, with more Northern (US and GWN) transplants.

It's bigger, but not by an order of magnitude. It's bigger by only 80k.  And I don't think it's more of a hockey market than Tampa.  Nor will it be.  I also think that Tampa has more (or a higher percentage of) transplants from the north, but I can't prove it.

[nfreeman]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

It's bigger, but not by an order of magnitude. It's bigger by only 80k.  And I don't think it's more of a hockey market than Tampa.  Nor will it be.  I also think that Tampa has more (or a higher percentage of) transplants from the north, but I can't prove it.

Well, the Miami-FLL-Boca metro area has about 6.1MM people, while the Tampa-St. Pete-Clearwater metro area has about 3.2MM people.

Certainly it's less of a hockey market at present than Tampa is.  I'm hoping that this year's success will springboard it to reaching Tampa's level in a few years if the team stays good.

I'd be amazed if Tampa had more Northern transplants than Miami.

[Eleven]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, the Miami-FLL-Boca metro area has about 6.1MM people, while the Tampa-St. Pete-Clearwater metro area has about 3.2MM people.

Certainly it's less of a hockey market at present than Tampa is.  I'm hoping that this year's success will springboard it to reaching Tampa's level in a few years if the team stays good.

I'd be amazed if Tampa had more Northern transplants than Miami.

80k difference per this:  https://2collegebrothers.com/blog/tampa-vs-miami-pros-cons/  I didn't write it and don't vouch for its accuracy.

If you've ever been to those two areas, you would find it probable that Tampa Bay has a larger percentage of northerners.  Tampa Bay has a ton of Canadians, too.  Miami has a ton of Cubans and Puerto Ricans, which, while very nice people, do not tend to be hockey fans.  And don't poke Ybor City my way; I'm aware of it and I also know that it's a neighborhood and not all of Tampa Bay.

 

Shouldn't this be in the Ryan Johnson thread?

[LabattBlue]

Masshole vs poorly supported franchise with an arena on the edge of the everglades in the middle of nowhere. 
 

Add in the fact another team will be a first time cup winner…just cancel the finals and award no winner. 
 

I will not be watching any of it. 👎🏻

[That Aud Smell]

On 5/29/2023 at 11:33 PM, Eleven said:

Very smart of the league to slow down any publicity momentum, and interest from casual fans, by postponing Game 1 until Saturday.  Brilliant.  I know, 

The more successful league in the considerably inferior sport seems ready to go.

Before the Heat slipped up, the NBA was staring down a ~10-day hiatus between the end of its conference finals and the start of its championship series. The start dates for these things get scheduled way out - in both leagues, I believe. My guess is that there are all kinds of "synergistic" moving parts ("partners" who set aside the dates so that they can participate - show up and shmooze) that are locked into place based on dates certain.

[Eleven]

9 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Before the Heat slipped up, the NBA was staring down a ~10-day hiatus between the end of its conference finals and the start of its championship series. The start dates for these things get scheduled way out - in both leagues, I believe. My guess is that there are all kinds of "synergistic" moving parts ("partners" who set aside the dates so that they can participate - show up and shmooze) that are locked into place based on dates certain.

The NBA starts a series as soon as both teams are known.  Always has.  Tonight's Game 1 wasn't scheduled in advance; it is two days after both teams were known.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Eleven

[That Aud Smell]

55 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The NBA starts a series as soon as both teams are known.  Always has.  Tonight's Game 1 wasn't scheduled in advance; it is two days after both teams were known.

That may have been true in the past (no idea), but it is not true this year. Ten days ago or so, I recall hearing some sports talkers discussing the possibility of a lengthy layoff after Denver swept LA and Miami had a chance to do likewise with Boston. 

I limited a Google to a period of time when the conference finals were still ongoing and/or when Denver was on the verge of its sweep (May15-May 22), and these were the top results:

Simpler. Here's the contemporaneous USA Today report on the Denver sweep. Story says that, as of 5/23, the finals will begin on June 1st.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2023/05/22/lakers-nuggets-game-4-western-conference-finals/70245975007/

[thewookie1]

Tampa created a market and has grown it over the years. For unknown reasons, the Bucs and Lightning have had great success with creating a fervent fan base whereas the Rays have always been the ugly step child of the group.

Florida, like other Miami teams, have rarely had more than masses of fair weather fans. If the team is bad, they just don’t care. If they are good, it’s hit and miss with ticket sales since many transplants already have a team they follow. You see that with the Panthers, Dolphins, Marlins. The Heat, I’d guess have a better fan base but I’m not as well versed with NBA.

[nfreeman]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

80k difference per this:  https://2collegebrothers.com/blog/tampa-vs-miami-pros-cons/  I didn't write it and don't vouch for its accuracy.

If you've ever been to those two areas, you would find it probable that Tampa Bay has a larger percentage of northerners.  Tampa Bay has a ton of Canadians, too.  Miami has a ton of Cubans and Puerto Ricans, which, while very nice people, do not tend to be hockey fans.  And don't poke Ybor City my way; I'm aware of it and I also know that it's a neighborhood and not all of Tampa Bay.

 

Shouldn't this be in the Ryan Johnson thread?

This is where you get your information?  A random blog from 2 dudes with a moving company?

That explains a lot, come to think of it.

In any case, the 2 college bros on whom you are basing your philosophy, such as it is, appear to be citing city limits population, not metro area population.  I think the latter is more relevant in assessing a hockey market, but of course YMMV.

I've been to both Tampa and Miami a number of times, including a trip to Miami just a couple of months ago.  While both certainly have, in my experience, a good number of Northerners, my impression is that there are many more transplants in Miami and a substantially greater percentage of "homegrowns" in Tampa.

[Thorner]

Smythe odds heading into final 

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/articles/amp/nhl_stanley_cup_final_bets_a_look_at_conn_smythe_odds/s1_13132_38869862

1: Sergei Bobrovsky, Florida (+210 DK)

2: Matthew Tkachuk, Florida (+360 FD)

3: Jack Eichel, Vegas (+425 DK)

4: Jonathan Marchessault, Vegas (+700 DK)

5: William Karlsson, Vegas (+700 DK)

6: Adin Hill, Vegas (+1200 DK)

Edited May 31, 2023 by Thorny

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, LTS said:

It belongs elsewhere.

I love hockey.  As such, I love hockey growing in higher population markets. It's really that simple for me.

There's a reason they say the rink is in "South Florida" rather than in Miami.  It isn't the same as the Bills playing in Orchard Park but still getting called the Buffalo Bills.

If that team were said to be in Miami, it would be more akin to the Hamilton Rock calling themselves the Toronto Rock in the NLL.

The rink is about 15 minutes due west of Fort Lauderdale.  Miami looks to be a 40 minute drive away if traffic isn't bad.

Interestingly (or maybe not) there's a highway that passes the rink to the north.  On the other side of that highway is NOTHING but swamps and rice/sugar cane fields for literally miles.  They couldn't realistically have found any land further from Miami that would still be considered part of that metro area.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

That may have been true in the past (no idea), but it is not true this year. Ten days ago or so, I recall hearing some sports talkers discussing the possibility of a lengthy layoff after Denver swept LA and Miami had a chance to do likewise with Boston. 

I limited a Google to a period of time when the conference finals were still ongoing and/or when Denver was on the verge of its sweep (May15-May 22), and these were the top results:

Simpler. Here's the contemporaneous USA Today report on the Denver sweep. Story says that, as of 5/23, the finals will begin on June 1st.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2023/05/22/lakers-nuggets-game-4-western-conference-finals/70245975007/

That is new if trew.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

This is where you get your information?  A random blog from 2 dudes with a moving company?

That explains a lot, come to think of it.

In any case, the 2 college bros on whom you are basing your philosophy, such as it is, appear to be citing city limits population, not metro area population.  I think the latter is more relevant in assessing a hockey market, but of course YMMV.

I've been to both Tampa and Miami a number of times, including a trip to Miami just a couple of months ago.  While both certainly have, in my experience, a good number of Northerners, my impression is that there are many more transplants in Miami and a substantially greater percentage of "homegrowns" in Tampa.

As I said, I don't vouch for the accuracy of the blog.

I also don't put a lot into "metro area," because I live in a city where that is artificially limited.  The "metro area" of Buffalo, if you were to measure it by the same standards as Miami (look on the map on Wikipedia, it seems to be everything within a 90 minute drive), is almost as populous.  There just happens to be a notable river in the way.

My impression is considerably different than yours--Miami seems more "homegrown," and much, MUCH less into pro sports; Tampa Bay seems more transplanted and more into pro sports.  I see Lightning signs on lawns and bumpers from Tampa down to Ft. Myers; I don't see any Panthers stuff...anywhere except on TV during a Panthers game.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Eleven

[Crusader1969]

On 5/30/2023 at 6:48 AM, Claude Balls said:

So does winning. He was miserable last year when they didn't make the playoffs. 

To think Eichel may win a cup before McDavid is mind numbing to me. Oiler fans can't be very happy. 

And leaf fans with matthews.  Part of me kinda wants to see it!

[Claude Balls]

6 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

And leaf fans with matthews.  Part of me kinda wants to see it!

That would be pretty funny tbh.

[klos1963]

11 hours ago, Eleven said:

Oh come on.  The timing of his recovery was a bit convenient, no?  He's like the schoolkid who is sick all day but is suddenly well enough to go out for ice cream at night.

2 back surgeries isn't quite the same as a kid home sick 1 day from school. Be serious.

[Marvin]

3 hours ago, MattPie said:

If the nugget fits...

That's Denver in the NBA Finals.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

That is new if trew.

Ain’t no “if” about it. Now that I honed in on better search terms — Denver Lakers sweep “June 1” — I find dozens of news stories published late on May 22 or early on May 23 that all say that the NBA Finals would begin on June 1st.

Edited June 1, 2023 by That Aud Smell

[Pimlach]

The last two teams I wanted to see win the Cup are in the finals.  

I am going for Florida with Reinhart and Montour.   Seeing Vegas/Eichel win it would be a terrible outcome.  

[OverPowerYou]

Let this sink in

The Sabres tanked for 2 years in a row in 2013 and 2014 and got the #1 and #2 overall picks. Those players are now playing against  each other in the final round of the Stanley cup finals. 

Here's the best part. One of the teams is an expansion team from 2019, which has made the finals twice already in 4 years. 

One of these two franchises will also win it all for the first time. Meanwhile buffalo hasn't done squat since 2007. 

[MattPie]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Well, the Miami-FLL-Boca metro area has about 6.1MM people, while the Tampa-St. Pete-Clearwater metro area has about 3.2MM people.

Certainly it's less of a hockey market at present than Tampa is.  I'm hoping that this year's success will springboard it to reaching Tampa's level in a few years if the team stays good.

I'd be amazed if Tampa had more Northern transplants than Miami.

 

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Ain’t no “if” about it. Now that I honed in on better search terms — Denver Lakers sweep “June 1” — I find dozens of news stories published late on May 22 or early on May 23 that all say that the NBA Finals would begin on June 1st.

I seem to remember someone complaining about how the NBA teams had over a week off before their finals in the last several years. Not sure if this was the year I'm thinking of, but in 2019 the GSW played on May 20th completing a sweep, and the Raptors won their series 4-2 on May 25th. Game one of the finals was May 31st. This was the first year I looked at.

2018 both conference series went to 7, so only 3 days off. Finals started May 31st

2017 series ended May 22 (4) and 25 (5), Finals started June 1st

2016 series ended May 27 (6) and 30 (7), Finals started June 2nd

2015 series ended May 26 (4) and 27 (5), Finals start June 4th

Really looks like the NBA schedules to finals 2-3 days after the last possible conference final game ahead of time based on the spread of dates, I'm guessing the first three series start a couple days after the previous round wraps up. 2015 the first two rounds both had a series that went 7 games, so that's probably one of the latest starts you'd see.