SLOW it down on Kulich and Rosen

[Andrew Amerk]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Just for comparison purposes

Quinn (age 20 season) - AHL - 45gm 26g 35a 61 pts (1.36  pts/gp)

Quinn (19) - AHL - 15gm 2g 7a 9pts (.6 pts/gp)

JJP (19) - AHL - 70gm 28g 40a 68 pts  (.97 pts/gp)

Kulich (18) - AHL - 62gm 24g 22a 46pts (.74 pts/gp)

Rosen (19) - AHL - 66gm 14g 23a 37pts (.56 pts/gp)

Nylander (19) - AHL 51gm 8g 19a 27pt (.53 pts/gp)

Krebs (19) - AHL 5gm 1g 4a 5pts (1pt/gp) - Krebs was mostly in the WHL that season (with 43pts in 24gms) 

Cozens (19) - NHL- 41gms 4g 9a 143 pts

TNT & Mitts were in college.  Savoie is stuck in the WHL (95 pts in 62 games). 

Östlund (18) - AVK - 37gm 8g 18a 26pts (.70 pts/gp) Note: the NHLe for the Allsvenskan is very close to the AHL's.

Those 143 points were a nice season for Cozens. 
 

I haven’t followed any of the conjecture on here surrounding Rosen, but I watch a LOT of Amerks hockey. The kid is doing just fine, and  is on a good path. One more year of filling out his frame, and we will see if he is still trending upward. I’m pretty high on him and his future at the present moment. He is still cooking. 

[JoeSchmoe]

41 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Those 143 points were a nice season for Cozens. 
 

I haven’t followed any of the conjecture on here surrounding Rosen, but I watch a LOT of Amerks hockey. The kid is doing just fine, and  is on a good path. One more year of filling out his frame, and we will see if he is still trending upward. I’m pretty high on him and his future at the present moment. He is still cooking. 

My problem is if you draw out the organizational depth for F's, and then do it for D, there is a huge disparity.

Based on his draft pedigree, he could fetch us a good return on the backend. If we don't deal him, he'll have a hard time displacing any of the F's that are already on the team or further along than him. Even if he were lucky enough to crack the lineup, the incremental improvement he's likely to provide won't measure up to the large incremental improvement we could get by improving our #4 and lower defense.

[Andrew Amerk]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

My problem is if you draw out the organizational depth for F's, and then do it for D, there is a huge disparity.

Based on his draft pedigree, he could fetch us a good return on the backend. If we don't deal him, he'll have a hard time displacing any of the F's that are already on the team or further along than him. Even if he were lucky enough to crack the lineup, the incremental improvement he's likely to provide won't measure up to the large incremental improvement we could get by improving our #4 and lower defense.

Fetch a return for who?

[JoeSchmoe]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Fetch a return for who?

Jorge the defenseman of the Cartagena Ice Monsters from the Colombian Coastal League.

Either him, or someone else... maybe as part of a package. 

[Weave]

6 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Jorge the defenseman of the Cartagena Ice Monsters from the Colombian Coastal League.

Either him, or someone else... maybe as part of a package. 

This answer is damned near perfect.

Exactly who is never the point, and just leads to rabbit holes about values pros and cons of specific players.  The idea is opportunity cost, as you mentioned, incremental improvement to the team with prospect X vs. incremental improvement to the team filling a bigger hole via trade.

[Stoner]

9 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Jorge the defenseman of the Cartagena Ice Monsters from the Colombian Coastal League.

Either him, or someone else... maybe as part of a package. 

Made me google.

[French Collection]

11 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Jorge the defenseman of the Cartagena Ice Monsters from the Colombian Coastal League.

Either him, or someone else... maybe as part of a package. 

That league is comparable to the NOSHO (Nortern Ontario Senior Hockey Organization) up here.

[Marvin]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

This answer is damned near perfect.

Exactly who is never the point, and just leads to rabbit holes about values pros and cons of specific players.  The idea is opportunity cost, as you mentioned, incremental improvement to the team with prospect X vs. incremental improvement to the team filling a bigger hole via trade.

Maybe some of the whiniest, most petulant, childish, condescending, and self-aggrandising Sabres fans on HFBoards have coloured my judgement, but I read that response and your attitude very poorly.  IMHO, it says, "I know whom to trade or not to trade to get what I want and it is so obvious that I don't need to provide details do I can whine about it for the next decade."  A few guys over there seem to have such soulless lives that all they do is belly-ache about not trading away #13, Savoie, and Kulich for Chychrun and a cap dump.

I want to see the kind of player being targeted.  Veteran, youngster, or prospect?   Signed for how long?  Straight across or package deal?

I also want a feel for how the person values the Sabres' asset.  Unlike most cases, where fans over-value their assets, I don't think most fans on this board value Rosen enough.

For instance, I see Calgary having a real need to get younger, which is why I thought Jokiharu for Tanev made sense for both sides.  I think Winnipeg could help their rebuild and help us out with Rosen plus a project prospect for DeMelo.  Now you can help me out with my evaluations of the players.

Aside: HFBoards's team pages are a great place to get a feel for who might be available and for what price.

[JoeSchmoe]

41 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Maybe some of the whiniest, most petulant, childish, condescending, and self-aggrandising Sabres fans on HFBoards have coloured my judgement, but I read that response and your attitude very poorly.  IMHO, it says, "I know whom to trade or not to trade to get what I want and it is so obvious that I don't need to provide details do I can whine about it for the next decade."

Haha! Wrong take. 

Speculating on trades is a colossal waste of time, and as 6 year Sabrespacer veteran, I know a thing or two about colossal wastes of time. 🥴

 

[French Collection]

38 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Haha! Wrong take. 

Speculating on trades is a colossal waste of time, and as 6 year Sabrespacer veteran, I know a thing or two about colossal wastes of time. 🥴

 

It’s a dumb and dumber 1 in a million odds but maybe a GM would have an intern read all of the forums for trade/draft/FA ideas.

[Andrew Amerk]

9 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Haha! Wrong take. 

Speculating on trades is a colossal waste of time, and as 6 year Sabrespacer veteran, I know a thing or two about colossal wastes of time. 🥴

 

No, Marvin is correct here. 

It’s like when Spacers complain about KA not getting a new goalie. The question then becomes, well, who do you want him to target that is reasonably available and would want to play for Buffalo? 

Could Buffalo balance out their F and D pipeline better? Sure. If they moved Rosen, who or what do you want to see them fetch in return?

Your response is like when a girlfriend says she is hungry and you say okay let’s go to Bar Bill, and she replies “no I don’t want to go there,” but then can’t tell you where she wants to go at all. That’s truly a colossal waste of time. 

[Thorner]

13 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

No, Marvin is correct here. 

It’s like when Spacers complain about KA not getting a new goalie. The question then becomes, well, who do you want him to target that is reasonably available and would want to play for Buffalo? 

Could Buffalo balance out their F and D pipeline better? Sure. If they moved Rosen, who or what do you want to see them fetch in return?

Your response is like when a girlfriend says she is hungry and you say okay let’s go to Bar Bill, and she replies “no I don’t want to go there,” but then can’t tell you where she wants to go at all. That’s truly a colossal waste of time. 

I don’t really think the burden is on fans to detail examples when we don’t have the connections and resources the GM does. All a fan can do is judge their team relative to the work of other teams. Someone who knows *literally nothing* about GMing or hockey can still expect an average performance from their GM relative to other GMs. They are the professionals - it’s their job. Fans are the consumer and can expect better regardless of whether they themselves can detail solutions...direct the film...edit the special effects, etc etc

They create the product. We determine if the product meets market standard 

[Curt]

16 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I don’t really think the burden is on fans to detail examples when we don’t have the connections and resources the GM does. All a fan can do is judge their team relative to the work of other teams. Someone who knows *literally nothing* about GMing or hockey can still expect an average performance from their GM relative to other GMs. They are the professionals - it’s their job. Fans are the consumer and can expect better regardless of whether they themselves can detail solutions...direct the film...edit the special effects, etc etc

They create the product. We determine if the product meets market standard 

But have you taken into consideration the fact that being a GM is kinda hard?

This thought process kind of breaks down in hilarious when applied to other consumer industries.

Sure your mechanic didn’t fix your car’s issue, but if you can’t define exactly what he should have done differently, can you really complain?

Sure that sweater you just bought fell apart after one wearing, but if you can’t detail what exactly was wrong with the manufacturing process, can you really complain?

Sure the Sabres goalies stink, but if you can’t give specific examples of what alternatives were available and and what they would have cost, can you really complain?

Actually, yeah, we can complain.

[JoeSchmoe]

14 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

No, Marvin is correct here. 

It’s like when Spacers complain about KA not getting a new goalie. The question then becomes, well, who do you want him to target that is reasonably available and would want to play for Buffalo? 

Could Buffalo balance out their F and D pipeline better? Sure. If they moved Rosen, who or what do you want to see them fetch in return?

Your response is like when a girlfriend says she is hungry and you say okay let’s go to Bar Bill, and she replies “no I don’t want to go there,” but then can’t tell you where she wants to go at all. That’s truly a colossal waste of time. 

You and Marvin must have some ESPN or something to know what I was thinking. Forecasting trades is as big a time waste as it gets. Much worse so than me creating this thread. 😁

[inkman]

3 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

You and Marvin must have some ESPN or something to know what I was thinking. Forecasting trades is as big a time waste as it gets. Much worse so than me creating this thread. 😁

I gave up this fight before my beard went gray.  No one on God’s green earth could have fathomed the Eichel or Reinhart trades.  I’m sure some lucky SOB dart boarded that ***** but there are so many things fans don’t know that GMs have at their fingers.