SLOW it down on Kulich and Rosen

[JoeSchmoe]

Every thread seems to have Kulich penciled into the Sabres lineup next year. Some even hint at Rosen cracking the lineup. Here's some food for thought.

Quinn and Peterka's AHL season before making the big club:

Quinn: 61pt in 45gp

Peterka: 68pt in 70gp

Kulich and Rosen this year:

Kulich: 46pt in 62gp

Rosen: 37pt in 66gp

Peterka (and even Quinn) struggled at times this year coming off a ppg season in ROC. Clearly the latter are a step or two behind being nowhere near ppg.

Given his age, Kulich looks to like he'll be an impact player... Just give him another year to marinate and work on his 200ft game. Next year in the A I could see him putting up Peterka or maybe even Quinn-like numbers.

Rosen in my long standing opinion isn't tracking to be an NHL player of any significance. Even after potentially another year or two of putting on some size and gaining skill, I question whether we'll need more of his style of play in the lineup. I'd be packaging him pretty hard this offseason.

Edited May 25, 2023 by JoeSchmoe

[LGR4GM]

Rosen is criminally underrated by this board. 

[Flashsabre]

1) Yes, slow down on Kulich, Rosen and Savoie. Let them marinate

2) I would seriously re evaluate your “tracking” system. If you are watching Rosen in these playoffs and don’t see a future impact player then I really don’t know what you are watching or how you are evaluating. I don’t want him moved at all this summer. I think he explodes in Rochester next year.

[nfreeman]

I agree on slowing it down, but it's way, way too early to come to any kind of conclusions on Rosen.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Rosen is criminally underrated by this board. 

So is winning.

[Drag0nDan]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Every thread seems to have Kulich penciled into the Sabres lineup next year. Some even hint at Rosen cracking the lineup. Here's some food for thought.

Quinn and Peterka's AHL season before making the big club:

Quinn: 61pt in 45gp

Peterka: 68pt in 70gp

Kulich and Rosen this year:

Kulich: 46pt in 62gp

Rosen: 37pt in 66gp

Peterka (and even Quinn) struggled at times this year coming off a ppg season in ROC. Clearly the latter are a step or two behind being nowhere near ppg.

Given his age, Kulich looks to like he'll be an impact player... Just give him another year to marinate and work on his 200ft game. Next year in the A I could see him putting up Peterka or maybe even Quinn-like numbers.

Rosen in my long standing opinion isn't tracking to be an NHL player of any significance. Even after potentially another year or two of putting on some size and gaining skill, I question whether we'll need more of his style of play in the lineup. I'd be packaging him pretty hard this offseason.

I think rosen is fairly ahead of most of the other wingers drafted around his position - Most are playing in juniors.  Having come from a different type of game I would actually say he's adjusted quite well to a narrower patch of ice.  

I'm not opposed to trading him, as pieces will have to be moved if you want to bring in any new players through trades.  

[msw2112]

While I don't fully disagree with the OP, I'd be interested to see how their points production breaks down in the 1st half of the season vs. the 2nd half and the playoffs.  While some more AHL seasoning may be necessary (likely more needed for Rosen than for Kulich), I believe both guys have really come on down the stretch, and definitely in the playoffs.  I could envision a scenario where Kulich plays most of next season in Rochester, but gets called up after the trade deadline and stays with the big club.  Rosen likely needs another full season, if for no other reason, to grow and get in the weight room.  This is all based on what I have read - I have not seen an Amerks game this season, so I'm not claiming to be an expert on the topic.

In Rosen's draft year, he was rated in the top 15 by pretty much all of the experts.  He's not a guy I was hoping the Sabres would draft, but he's exceeding my expectations and is definitely showing signs that his draft status may have been accurate.  Time will tell.

[mjd1001]

Ok, I get that we want to talk about the prospects.  That is what we do, that is what message boards are for. And a lot of our 'talking' is making predictions/projections.

But to me, it'll come down to camp and preseason.  If they are ready, the coaches will see that in practice and camp and games.  If they aren't, they'll see that too.  We will all know a lot more about them in a few months.

[DarthEbriate]

I hope they both make their Sabres' debut this season.

But I would rather they fill out their frames and come to dominate the AHL in all 3 zones and build their hunger so that when they come up they can step immediately into a top-6 role if it's warranted, or anywhere else in the lineup. I want them killing penalties, closing out games, and not just sitting in the FO circle shooting one-timers on the PP (and yes, they've both already surpassed that baseline). I want 22 year-old rookies who are carrying 185#+ for their frames, who are hard to knock off their feet or off the puck and are ready to break the world.

[Mr. Allen]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Rosen is criminally underrated by this board. 

Everybody is S’ing the D on Kulich and Savoie and leaving Rosen and Östlund underrated. 

[Night Train]

Bottom 4 just went into cardiac arrest reading this. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Rosen is criminally underrated by this board. 

I don't think he is underrated as a prospect by most of the people who follow the Amerks. However, there is a realization that he still needs another year or two to physically mature before he will be able to play at the NHL level. By all accounts he has made strides this year. But the biggest issue for this youngster is physical maturation. Time will take care of that issue. 

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, msw2112 said:

In Rosen's draft year, he was rated in the top 15 by pretty much all of the experts

Elite prospects used to have all the predraft rankings and the highest anyone had him was the late teens. Many/most were sub-20. Sabres reached on him after a strong U18 tournament.

[JoeSchmoe]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Rosen is criminally underrated by this board. 

He's well behind where our other prospects are/were at his age.

Even if he starts tracking upward, the likelihood of him beating out any of our existing or projected top-10 is quite low. Does he really fit with this crew, or do we need size/grit/checking?

Tuch, Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Krebs, Quinn, JJP, Kulich, Savoie

He'd be far more use to us if we could flip him for more help with our D pipeline.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, JoeSchmoe said:

He's well behind where our other prospects are/were at his age.

Even if he starts tracking upward, the likelihood of him beating out any of our existing or projected top-10 is quite low. Does he really fit with this crew, or do we need size/grit/checking?

Tuch, Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Krebs, Quinn, JJP, Kulich, Savoie

He'd be far more use to us if we could flip him for more help with our D pipeline.

I rest my case. 

 

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Rosen is criminally underrated by this board. 

 

[PerreaultForever]

I don't have to slow it down. I don't expect any of them to start on the Sabres roster. It's possible they start the season to give them a few games before sending them back down, but that's the most. One or more MIGHT get called up at the end of the year or as injury replacements but it depends on how they play and how the Sabres do. 

I think Kulich is closest, but at his age he'd have to do something remarkable in pre season to stay up. 

I would certainly hope we would now shift back to a normal development plan(s) for these guys and not use the big club as a development team but actually focus totally on competing for the playoffs. 

We lost 2-1 to Florida on April 4. Imagine if we'd gotten lucky that night and won in regulation? Florida, the possible cup winner, doesn't even make the playoffs. I bet Adams looks at this and thinks, Levi added, Quinn, Peterka and Power seasoned, we're good. He'd be wrong, but I bet that's what he's thinking. 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

So is winning.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

50 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I rest my case. 

Are you saying you're projecting him above Tuch, Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Krebs, Quinn, JJP, Kulich, Savoie?

I wish I had your crystal ball, because I don't see it. He's worth more in exchange for a D prospect IMO. If that's criminal... I don't want to be law abiding.

[Curt]

4 hours ago, msw2112 said:

In Rosen's draft year, he was rated in the top 15 by pretty much all of the experts. 

Knit picking on my part, but this might be slightly overstating his draft rankings.

I THINK his consolidated “average” draft ranking was 17.  He was in the top 25 on almost any list you could find, but he often was ranked in the 15-20 range.  If I’m remembering correctly.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Elite prospects used to have all the predraft rankings and the highest anyone had him was the late teens. Many/most were sub-20. Sabres reached on him after a strong U18 tournament.

It’s still up on Eliteprospects, but they move the info to the bottom of the player page.

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Are you saying you're projecting him above Tuch, Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Krebs, Quinn, JJP, Kulich, Savoie?

I wish I had your crystal ball, because I don't see it. He's worth more in exchange for a D prospect IMO. If that's criminal... I don't want to be law abiding.

Wtf are you even talking about? I rest my case that Rosen is underrated by this board. 

[Curt]

I don’t know how good Rosen will end up being but he is doing just fine.  He always needed to put on muscle so it’s been no surprise that he has been handled a little slowly.

With that said, he just turned 20 a couple months ago and he is playing an important role and producing in the AHL playoffs, so I think he is coming along just fine.

[JoeSchmoe]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Wtf are you even talking about? I rest my case that Rosen is underrated by this board. 

You "rest your case" in saying he's underrated because I said there are 10 Fs on the team he's not likely to pass. Not sure what else to say.

[JoeSchmoe]

23 minutes ago, Curt said:

It’s still up on Eliteprospects, but they move the info to the bottom of the player page.

I went to the Wayback Machine. That #8 ranking was from NHL Central Scouting for EU skaters. Here's what was listed in EP on June 2021.

 

[DarthEbriate]

17 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t know how good Rosen will end up being but he is doing just fine.  He always needed to put on muscle so it’s been no surprise that he has been handled a little slowly.

With that said, he just turned 20 a couple months ago and he is playing an important role and producing in the AHL playoffs, so I think he is coming along just fine.

I am surprised by the haste that folks want to see from the core of this team. The core is a bunch of kids and they are still years from their collective prime. Rosen is in line age-wise with some of them... if he hits his ceiling he could be an incredibly important part of the franchise. If he doesn't, he could be an Armia, who is still kicking around the league 10 years after being drafted.

But the central core of this Sabres team is years younger than any of the 4 NHL semifinalists. Heck, the Sabres core is years younger than New Jersey's.

2 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

He's well behind where our other prospects are/were at his age.

Even if he starts tracking upward, the likelihood of him beating out any of our existing or projected top-10 is quite low. Does he really fit with this crew, or do we need size/grit/checking?

Tuch, Thompson, Skinner, Cozens, Mitts, Krebs, Quinn, JJP, Kulich, Savoie

He'd be far more use to us if we could flip him for more help with our D pipeline.

I think Rosen is tracking upward. He seems to be contributing really well with the Amerks in the playoffs (where Quinn's scoring completely disappeared last season).

Honestly, I don't know where to project him vs. the other top forwards yet. But because of the core Sabres' ages, I'd think it'd be more likely to see Rosen in the lineup if/when the Sabres make the Stanley Cup Final than it would be to see Skinner.