Kyle Okposo is back

[klos1963]

11 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

He was trying to recover from concussions as the post-concussion meds that almost killed him.

He played every season he was with the team.  I know he went through a lot,  but he was in the room every year when he built his reputation as a leader.

[Doohicksie]

2 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

why the alleged problems in the locker room before?

 

12 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

He was trying to recover from concussions as the post-concussion meds that almost killed him.

 

[mjd1001]

43 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I think Murray is destined to be a career AHLer because of that lack of speed. Is he gonna beat out an icing and feed the puck to a teammate for an easy empty netter like Girgs? Girgs may have no offensive finish in his game, but his speed and tenacity on the puck is valuable. 

I agree about Murray.  But then again, he can then be the type of guy that if you NEED to call him up because of a large number of injuries, he won't hurt you TOO much for short periods.

Girgs having no finish is something I partially, but don't entirely agree with.  His shooting percentage, while not GOOD, is 10% over the past 5 seasons (Better than Okposo and Peterka, about the same as Mitts, and only 1 percent behind Cozens.)  And he doesn't get PP time and has limited ice time, so as far as overall scoring, his goals per 60 minutes is 0.56 over that time. About the Same as Krebs and Mitts, and better than Okposo and Jost (his 4th line linemates).  

Statistically, he is right in the middle (average) scoring for where most 4th liners are, maybe SLIGHTLY above.  Add to that he is avery good forechecker (He MIGHT be the 2nd best on the team behind Tuch, that 4th line pins the opponents in their zone a lot)....and he is a very good Penalty killer (Fancy stats over his career show statistically he is on the ice for less goals allowed per minute short handed than many other teamates, and the 'eye test' watching replays of goals against shows he is rarely out of position leading to a sh goal against.)  Put all that together, and I'm not sure whey some people want him gone so badly, saying he produces 'nothing' or is worthless. That just isn't true.  He isn't more than a 4th liner, but I would say he is a very good 4th liner.

[Doohicksie]

https://www.diebytheblade.com/kyle-okposo-explains-injury-says-thank-you-in-letter-to-fans/

In fact, it is likely that his leadership style was formed and influenced in the aftermath of his concussion. 

That's the point about "veteran leadership"... It's not just about how well you play hockey.  It's about the experience a veteran player has- all the situations he's been in, all the things he's seen, and how that shapes his approach to the game and to the locker room.

Dahlin, Tuch, Cozens, are all leaders in their own way, but they don't have the level of experience that Okposo has.  I think it's fair to say that this season will be as much about him shaping Dahlin, Tuch, Cozens and whoever else as it will be about leading the team.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Doohickie

[phil_soisson]

This seems like a "scared front office" move; overly cautious and uncertain of how to proceed, so go with the familiar. They are fully cognizant of the weight of the last 12 years of utility. It's a factor in their moves, but shouldn't be. Underwhelming.

[Doohicksie]

4 minutes ago, phil_soisson said:

This seems like a "scared front office" move; overly cautious and uncertain of how to proceed

This sentence has never been applicable to Kevyn Adams.

[North Buffalo]

Okie statement on FB

[K-9]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree about Murray.  But then again, he can then be the type of guy that if you NEED to call him up because of a large number of injuries, he won't hurt you TOO much for short periods.

Girgs having no finish is something I partially, but don't entirely agree with.  His shooting percentage, while not GOOD, is 10% over the past 5 seasons (Better than Okposo and Peterka, about the same as Mitts, and only 1 percent behind Cozens.)  And he doesn't get PP time and has limited ice time, so as far as overall scoring, his goals per 60 minutes is 0.56 over that time. About the Same as Krebs and Mitts, and better than Okposo and Jost (his 4th line linemates).  

Statistically, he is right in the middle (average) scoring for where most 4th liners are, maybe SLIGHTLY above.  Add to that he is avery good forechecker (He MIGHT be the 2nd best on the team behind Tuch, that 4th line pins the opponents in their zone a lot)....and he is a very good Penalty killer (Fancy stats over his career show statistically he is on the ice for less goals allowed per minute short handed than many other teamates, and the 'eye test' watching replays of goals against shows he is rarely out of position leading to a sh goal against.)  Put all that together, and I'm not sure whey some people want him gone so badly, saying he produces 'nothing' or is worthless. That just isn't true.  He isn't more than a 4th liner, but I would say he is a very good 4th liner.

Thanks for taking a deeper dive into Z’s offensive numbers. I didn’t realize how UNterrible they truly are. Perhaps he should shoot more.😄

He has a drive that can’t be taught. We’ve mentioned numerous times here how, in a game his junior team in Latvia was losing by 11 goals in the third period of a game, he was still blocking shots, still trying to make a difference. I imagine that his coaches and teammates gotta love that kind of hockey character. 

[DarthEbriate]

56 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I’m fine with this signing. As long as he becomes more familiar with the press box. I also would like a fair and open training camp. If Rousek beats out Okposo, then let Rousek play. As KA would say, I don’t want Okposo blocking youth. 

I don't think GM Sheevyn would say Okposo in that sentence. Because there's blocking youth and there's blocking youth.

Last year, Quinn and JJP had some names cleared in the offseason: Hayden, Caggiula, Eakin. The folks they had to beat for playing time were Bjork, Hinostroza, Sheahan, and Asplund. It's still TBD which players are cleared out this offseason.  But, currently the players that Savoie, Kulich, and Rousek are pushing on for the bottom 6 (if JJP-Cozens-Quinn is a 2nd line): Hinostroza, Greenway, Jost, Mitts, Girgs, Krebs, KO, and VO (or JJP or Quinn). That's a step up in talent (especially offensively) from Bjork, Sheahan, and Asplund. And I believe Sheahan-Girgs is a push; Girgs has much better wheels.

Based on what I saw in Seattle, Savoie gets a good look in October, but needs another year to grow physically and doesn't get game 9 this season. He's too good for the WHL, but a day too young to be where he belongs in Rochester. Kulich also gets another full season in Rochester to bulk up with a callup or two along the way. Rousek is the 12/13 in Buffalo.

If the goal is playoffs, you want NHL veterans and physically mature players for the season's grind and not even more kids under 21. (And yes, a vet 3/4D and goalie too, but I'm trying to stick to forwards.)

[oddoublee]

32 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Okposo's full interview

 

Sounds like a leader if you ask me. I am really happy with this - and looking forward to him being captain again. Great share!

[K-9]

Reading a few posts, I get the impression some don’t know the difference between leadership and babysitting. 

[CallawaySabres]

This seems like an absolute waste of a roster spot. We don't need players to get to the playoffs, we need players that produce once we are IN the playoffs...ugh.

[French Collection]

My thought at season’s end was that they could run with this exact same roster in 23/24 and make the playoffs. Internal improvement alone would provide the necessary points.

This is not a foolproof strategy and there are definite weaknesses to be addressed. Defense, goaltending and PK were my areas of concern.

Bringing back KO will not impact overall scoring as he is on his last legs and he should be a 4th liner with very little special teams ice time.

This is purely a leadership, respect and camaraderie type of move.

I still would like to see a playoff hardened vet or two brought in to provide a different kind of leadership. KO is helping these guys be good pros, great people and being themselves. I think someone like Killorn, Toews, Hathaway, Compher could teach these guys what it takes to get to the next level in the playoffs. Plus they would add a skillset that may be lacking like PK, faceoffs, toughness etc…

Now if Hinestroza, Girgensons and Jost are all re-signed I will begin to worry that KA has fallen in love with his team and he doesn’t want to p**s anybody off.

[tom webster]

3 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

This seems like an absolute waste of a roster spot. We don't need players to get to the playoffs, we need players that produce once we are IN the playoffs...ugh.

Sorry, Okposo seems exactly like a player that one would expect to produce in the playoffs if you believe in that sort of thing.

[...]

56 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

My point was,  I'd he's such a strong leader, why the alleged problems in the locker room before? He's getting credit for a good locker room when it's good,  but no blame when it's bad. 

Because he didn't have the backing of the coaches and GMs to accomplish anything meaningful to the average observer?

[RochesterExpat]

16 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Whos spot is he taking? Savoie is a lock and Kulich? With his regular season and playoffs how can you deny him a chance ?

What about rosen ? 

No one (including KO) should be guaranteed a roster spot anymore. The team is at that point. You earn your spot on the roster and if you're not performing or someone starts outperforming you then you're out. You're either developed enough to hold your own in the NHL, or the team needs to replace you with someone who is already at that point. To some extent, we saw this transition last season compared to 21-22. Players spent time in the press box when they weren't performing. The farm team is no longer in Buffalo.

I'd argue saying Savoie is a lock is a stretch, but recent events might indicate he's going to get at least his 10 games. I think it's possible the Sabres Organization petitions the league that he should be treated as a 4th year junior player (as he would be if COVID didn't happen) which would allow him to play in Rochester. No idea. That one will (and should) be decided at camp. But so should every other position from 1C to 7th D.

As far as Rosen and Kulich are concerned, I think Rosen is closer to the NHL in terms of play than Kulich and I say that as a pretty big Kulich fanboy who wanted him in the A this season. Kulich has the goal scoring since there is no doubting he has an NHL shot. That gives him the visibility, but if you watch Rochester play, Rosen is more impactful on a shift-to-shift basis. Kulich needs to work on his defensive play and he's still struggling to carry his explosiveness through the entire shift (much less so than at the beginning of the season where he'd go 100mph for the first half of his shift before tiring himself out). I honestly think the stamina/pacing issue might be a large part of the cause for his defensive shortcomings considering how he was utilized for most of the season (he's on the ice for transitions to the offensive zone and doesn't usually start his shifts defensively which means he's exhausted by the time the puck is in the Amerks' zone). He played much better defensively at the WJC last summer and even this winter than he has in Rochester for most of the season. I don't believe he's a flawed player by any stretch. He's just, well, 19. A young 19 at that.

As of right now, Kulich could be viewed as a replacement for VO: a goal scorer who can pass the puck well, sure, but is only remembered by fans for his goal scoring and who disappears for times on the ice. To Kulich's credit, at the age of 19 he can already score from a lot more places than VO can so he's an improvement in that regard; however, this team doesn't need VO, much less replacing him with just another shooter who is a defensive liability. This is Kulich's first season in NA and will be his first season playing 80+ games (counting the WJC). He's learning to pace himself. It's also possible he works on his game enough this off-season that the entire point is moot and he shows up to camp and dominates.

On the other hand, Rosen has shown his speed isn't hampered by "playoff" hockey which I've found honestly surprising considering I think he still needs to live in a weight room this off-season with a protein IV drip. Rosen has genuine pro-level vision and he's done a lot to bury concerns people had for him after his season in Sweden following the draft. Not to mention he's apparently got one hell of a shot that seemingly developed out of nowhere (maybe Kulich bullied him into practicing it). If we're talking about third or fourth line slots being the most likely ones to open on the roster for next season, Rosen is going to look like he belongs more so than Kulich. Regardless, Rousek is the most NHL-ready of the three and should be the first player given a look in Buffalo for a depth role. Rousek may not get the same coverage in conversation that Kulich or Rosen get, but he's impossible to miss when he's on the ice in Rochester. He plays a complete game and he makes an impact every shift. If we're talking about the best player taking a roster spot, he's--at least right now--better than Kulich and Rosen. Of course, that could all change by the time camp comes around.

I think the important asterisk to add to this discussion is that Rousek doesn't have the same ceiling as Kulich, Savoie or Rosen. I will happily eat my hat if I'm wrong, but I don't see Rousek ever being a star in the NHL. You also don't make playoff runs without players that most casual fans forget about in the years that follow (here's to you perennially underappreciated Jochen Hecht). On the flip side, if/when Kulich rounds out his game, he's going to be taking a spot in the Top 6 and not looking back. Savoie is going to do the same. Honestly, in a year, Rosen may be the replacement for Rousek and Rousek may be trade bait. No clue.

[nfreeman]

18 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

I would have agreed with you about a week ago but with buffalo basically telling everyone " hey hes not here to practice but help us win a cup" 

It just seems different 

What?  Who said this?  What exactly did he/she say?

Please do not vomit up gibberish like this and waste everyone's time.

 

13 hours ago, TRIP65 said:

4th line was a BIG minus in player stats. You have to score some to at least keep it even. Your Top line must be a BIG plus even with some defensive deficiencies that come with scoring. The 4th line wasn't good enough.

What stats, specifically?  I hope you have something better than plus-minus to support this.

Here's what the Athletic had to say:

Quote

The Sabres had 52 percent of the shot attempts and 50.7 percent of the expected goals when Okposo was on the ice at five-on-five. Of lines that played at least 200 minutes together this season, Okposo, Girgensons and Peyton Krebs allowed the fifth-fewest expected goals per 60 minutes of ice time in the NHL.

 

[...]

53 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree about Murray.  But then again, he can then be the type of guy that if you NEED to call him up because of a large number of injuries, he won't hurt you TOO much for short periods.

Girgs having no finish is something I partially, but don't entirely agree with.  His shooting percentage, while not GOOD, is 10% over the past 5 seasons (Better than Okposo and Peterka, about the same as Mitts, and only 1 percent behind Cozens.)  And he doesn't get PP time and has limited ice time, so as far as overall scoring, his goals per 60 minutes is 0.56 over that time. About the Same as Krebs and Mitts, and better than Okposo and Jost (his 4th line linemates).  

Statistically, he is right in the middle (average) scoring for where most 4th liners are, maybe SLIGHTLY above.  Add to that he is avery good forechecker (He MIGHT be the 2nd best on the team behind Tuch, that 4th line pins the opponents in their zone a lot)....and he is a very good Penalty killer (Fancy stats over his career show statistically he is on the ice for less goals allowed per minute short handed than many other teamates, and the 'eye test' watching replays of goals against shows he is rarely out of position leading to a sh goal against.)  Put all that together, and I'm not sure whey some people want him gone so badly, saying he produces 'nothing' or is worthless. That just isn't true.  He isn't more than a 4th liner, but I would say he is a very good 4th liner.

Great post. To add: where are you going to find that kind of guy with veteran NHL experience for the paltry price you'd pay to re-sign him? Again, if you look at the Panthers and Vegas - they have guys just like Z. Z is a prototypical grinder who can shut down offense while providing the potential to capitalize on opportunities if they arise. He will have offers if the Sabres don't re-sign him.

Remember, the Sabres' really don't have a problem generating offense. Acquiring a solid second or third line forward would be icing on the cake to the team we had this past season.

[Buffalonill]

15 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

What?  Who said this?  What exactly did he/she say?

Please do not vomit up gibberish like this and waste everyone's time.

 

What stats, specifically?  I hope you have something better than plus-minus to support this.

Here's what the Athletic had to say:

 

They didn't bring him tp get practice hes there to help when the cup why else would he be there ?

[Buffalonill]

24 minutes ago, RochesterExpat said:

No one (including KO) should be guaranteed a roster spot anymore. The team is at that point. You earn your spot on the roster and if you're not performing or someone starts outperforming you then you're out. You're either developed enough to hold your own in the NHL, or the team needs to replace you with someone who is already at that point. To some extent, we saw this transition last season compared to 21-22. Players spent time in the press box when they weren't performing. The farm team is no longer in Buffalo.

I'd argue saying Savoie is a lock is a stretch, but recent events might indicate he's going to get at least his 10 games. I think it's possible the Sabres Organization petitions the league that he should be treated as a 4th year junior player (as he would be if COVID didn't happen) which would allow him to play in Rochester. No idea. That one will (and should) be decided at camp. But so should every other position from 1C to 7th D.

As far as Rosen and Kulich are concerned, I think Rosen is closer to the NHL in terms of play than Kulich and I say that as a pretty big Kulich fanboy who wanted him in the A this season. Kulich has the goal scoring since there is no doubting he has an NHL shot. That gives him the visibility, but if you watch Rochester play, Rosen is more impactful on a shift-to-shift basis. Kulich needs to work on his defensive play and he's still struggling to carry his explosiveness through the entire shift (much less so than at the beginning of the season where he'd go 100mph for the first half of his shift before tiring himself out). I honestly think the stamina/pacing issue might be a large part of the cause for his defensive shortcomings considering how he was utilized for most of the season (he's on the ice for transitions to the offensive zone and doesn't usually start his shifts defensively which means he's exhausted by the time the puck is in the Amerks' zone). He played much better defensively at the WJC last summer and even this winter than he has in Rochester for most of the season. I don't believe he's a flawed player by any stretch. He's just, well, 19. A young 19 at that.

As of right now, Kulich could be viewed as a replacement for VO: a goal scorer who can pass the puck well, sure, but is only remembered by fans for his goal scoring and who disappears for times on the ice. To Kulich's credit, at the age of 19 he can already score from a lot more places than VO can so he's an improvement in that regard; however, this team doesn't need VO, much less replacing him with just another shooter who is a defensive liability. This is Kulich's first season in NA and will be his first season playing 80+ games (counting the WJC). He's learning to pace himself. It's also possible he works on his game enough this off-season that the entire point is moot and he shows up to camp and dominates.

On the other hand, Rosen has shown his speed isn't hampered by "playoff" hockey which I've found honestly surprising considering I think he still needs to live in a weight room this off-season with a protein IV drip. Rosen has genuine pro-level vision and he's done a lot to bury concerns people had for him after his season in Sweden following the draft. Not to mention he's apparently got one hell of a shot that seemingly developed out of nowhere (maybe Kulich bullied him into practicing it). If we're talking about third or fourth line slots being the most likely ones to open on the roster for next season, Rosen is going to look like he belongs more so than Kulich. Regardless, Rousek is the most NHL-ready of the three and should be the first player given a look in Buffalo for a depth role. Rousek may not get the same coverage in conversation that Kulich or Rosen get, but he's impossible to miss when he's on the ice in Rochester. He plays a complete game and he makes an impact every shift. If we're talking about the best player taking a roster spot, he's--at least right now--better than Kulich and Rosen. Of course, that could all change by the time camp comes around.

I think the important asterisk to add to this discussion is that Rousek doesn't have the same ceiling as Kulich, Savoie or Rosen. I will happily eat my hat if I'm wrong, but I don't see Rousek ever being a star in the NHL. You also don't make playoff runs without players that most casual fans forget about in the years that follow (here's to you perennially underappreciated Jochen Hecht). On the flip side, if/when Kulich rounds out his game, he's going to be taking a spot in the Top 6 and not looking back. Savoie is going to do the same. Honestly, in a year, Rosen may be the replacement for Rousek and Rousek may be trade bait. No clue.

This organization will never wave kyle or put him in the press box even if the rookies beat him out .

Hes already   Guaranteed the roster spot

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Buffalonill

[RochesterExpat]

Just now, Buffalonill said:

This organization will never wave him or put him in the press box even if the rookies beat him out .

 

I agree and it doesn't make me happy by any stretch. I do believe if he's beat out by our rookies he'll end up on a suspiciously convenient LTIR of his own choosing. That being said, he's realistically signed as a 4th line role player and, while we could improve that via FA, we don't have a lot of NHL-ready 4th line role players in the Org right now. I don't really see him taking a roster spot from a rookie because it isn't really a spot our rookies are likely competing for in the first place. I'm going to be a lot more upset if we have VO dressed on opening night.

[hockey]

10 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

This organization will never wave kyle or put him in the press box even if the rookies beat him out .

Hes already   Guaranteed the roster spot

 

You're illiterate.

[Buffalonill]

11 minutes ago, hockey said:

You're illiterate.

You dont think the captain is Guaranteed a roster spot ?

 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I have no problem with this. As much as we have kids in the wing ready to play, we still need some solid vets and even though he is not going to score a ton , he brings vet presence and leadership in spades and this team's player evolve around him and seem to try and emulate his habits. Sounds like a smart move with a cap friendly number is not a bad thing. 

[DarthEbriate]

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

What stats, specifically?  I hope you have something better than plus-minus to support this.

It should be noted that with the exception of the Bruins (and an absurd EA NHL-like +128 goal differential this season), almost every team's dedicated d-zone forward line (whether ranked 3rd or 4th) is going to be a negative +/- or very close to even. If you're tasked with d-zone face offs against the opponent's top lines every night for 82 games, you're likely to give up a few more goals than you gain 5-on-5.

D-zone FO% for Sabres forwards last year vs. their %CF Rel at 5-on-5 to the rest of the team. These are the top 9 and 3 stand out tremendously:

ZG 58.7% DZ FO; CF% Rel -0.4
KO 56.7% DZ FO; CF% Rel 0.9
Krebs  52.7% DZ; CF% Rel 1.1

contrast vs.

Hino 58.4% DZ FO; CF% Rel -1.0
Bjork 57.1% DZ FO; CF% Rel -1.4
Jost 51.6% DZ FO; CF% Rel -1.7
Coz   50.5% DZ FO; CF% Rel -2.2

I'd throw out the players who were way over the D-only threshold (8% more DZ faceoffs than ZG). But they're already been moved anyway.
Sheahan 66.7% DZ; CF% -10.5
Asplund 64.1 DZ; CF% -6.9

ZG/Krebs/KO is a solid defensive line. They're going to start in their own zone and gain more shots than the opposition. That's a really good trait to have. Swapping Bryson's spot for a vet UFA 3/4 and Greenway for VO in the lineup and the team will take a massive step ahead.