Kyle Dubas not returning as Toronto Maple Leafs GM

[Brawndo]

 

[Randall Flagg]

Now who will they pan to 18 times per period during stoppages in play?

[That Aud Smell]

Huh.

I guess I'm at least a little surprised.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Was he really the problem? I think it’s much more likely the team President and signing Tavares.

[#freejame]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Was he really the problem? I think it’s much more likely the team President and signing Tavares.

Shannahan is definitely the larger issue at play I think. Surprised to see him sticking around. 

[Mango]

They are pushed against the cap, with a mediocre at best prospect pool, and one of the oldest rosters in the league. They have peaked at squeezing through the first round of playoffs. 

They have enough talent to be good, but if nobody internally has a viable plan how to rebound from their current set up they need to bring somebody in who does.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Mango

[SDS]

8 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Shannahan is definitely the larger issue at play I think. Surprised to see him sticking around. 

I can’t say I follow the leafs closely enough to deep dive into their management issues. Why is Shanahan the problem?

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

They are pushed against the cap, with a mediocre at best prospect pool, and one of the oldest rosters in the league. They have peaked squeezing through the first round of playoffs. 

They have enough talent to be good, but if nobody internally has a viable plan how to rebound from their current set up they need to bring somebody in who does.

The Leafs and Oilers are the reason I harp on defense and goaltending. Scoring 300 goals is fun, but to win on the playoffs you need to kill penalties, clear the zone quickly, grind and get key saves from the goalies. 

[#freejame]

9 minutes ago, SDS said:

I can’t say I follow the leafs closely enough to deep dive into their management issues. Why is Shanahan the problem?

It’s going on year 8 of his Shanaplan. It’s not that I think there is anything inherently wrong with him, it’s just I think Dubas is likely much more qualified than him to run a franchise. There’s been a lot of reports of internal strife between the two over the last few years as well. 
 

I think it’s worth noting that multiple teams were clamoring for Dubas to become available, yet I have a hard time believing Shanahan will have another hockey ops job after this. 
 

Dubas has done some questionable things, but I think this is a move Shanahan wanted to get another stab for himself. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, SDS said:

I can’t say I follow the leafs closely enough to deep dive into their management issues. Why is Shanahan the problem?

He’s been team President since 2014 and Dubas was executing his vision for the franchise.  In 2018 they needed defense and goaltending, but instead signed Tavares.  No way they sign Tavares without Shanny spearheading that decision. https://editorinleaf.com/2018/08/29/toronto-maple-leafs-john-tavares-6/

 Dubas has been trying to fix the D and goaltending ever since. In fact, since Shanny took over they haven’t developed a goalie and they’ve only developed 3 D, but only Liligren remains in the organization.  They also lack depth scoring outside the top 2 lines and outside Reilly they get little to no offense from their D. 

KA’s goal needs to be to not become the Leafs. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Flashsabre]

Here in Toronto the story is:

-Dubas deal was up.

- rumour is management had an extension for him.

-Dubas said at PC he had to talk to his family about his future

-said he will not be a GM anywhere else next year

Lou was GM with Dubas and Mark Hunter under him. People wanted Hunter, experienced hockey man, good eye for talent. They went for Dubas.

Dubas biggest downfall were contracts. The core 4 bent him over on deals and handcuffed him from balancing the lineup. 

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He’s been team President since 2014 and Dubas was executing his vision for the franchise.  In 2018 they needed defense and goaltending, but instead signed Tavares.  No way they sign Tavares without Shanny spearheading that decision. https://editorinleaf.com/2018/08/29/toronto-maple-leafs-john-tavares-6/

 Dubas has been trying to fix the D and goaltending ever since. In fact, since Shanny took over they haven’t developed a goalie and they’ve only developed 3 D, but only Liligren remains in the organization.  They also lack depth scoring outside the top 2 lines and outside Reilly they get little to no offense from their D. 

KA’s goal needs to be to not become the Leafs. 

As you well know, I'm more sanguine about our goaltending situation than most here are. You can attribute that increase in optimism toward that critical position to the addition of Levi. Let's put that issue aside for now. As far as I'm concerned, the organization needs to add at least two more 4/5 defenseman to the mix in order to bolster the unit and create enough depth to absorb the inevitable injuries. That's where the front office's attention needs to be directed toward this offseason. 

[Randall Flagg]

I'll drive him down to Pittsburgh if that's what it takes

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'll drive him down to Pittsburgh if that's what it takes

Why Pittsburgh?  From what I see, he'd be a good GM if there wasn't a president overriding him.

[French Collection]

Kyle, thank you for adding extra years to the ongoing streak of playoff mediocrity.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

FYI the entire Marlies coaching staff was shown the door today, as well.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Leafs and Oilers are the reason I harp on defense and goaltending. Scoring 300 goals is fun, but to win on the playoffs you need to kill penalties, clear the zone quickly, grind and get key saves from the goalies. 

This is why I've been saying for years the proper way to build is from the back out. You create a work hard culture where everyone contributes (or sits), you get solid goaltending, build up a solid D, and then add the scoring stars. 

Following the Toronto (or Edmonton) model is a bad idea. You spend far too much money on your superstars and then you don't have enough left for a solid roster, and if your goaltending isn't exceptional you will be sunk in the playoffs. 

My biggest beef with the Sabres has been based on not properly addressing goaltending first. Maybe now it will be okay if Levi is the real deal, but if he has an up and down development path to still work through, playoffs might still be several years away. Power helps, Levi helps, but it's not enough yet. 

[Eleven]

7 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Kyle, thank you for adding extra years to the ongoing streak of playoff mediocrity.

 

Is it him, though?  Or Shanahan?  This is the problem when one adds unnecessary levels of management.  Who does the buck stop with?

[Eleven]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

This is why I've been saying for years the proper way to build is from the back out. You create a work hard culture where everyone contributes (or sits), you get solid goaltending, build up a solid D, and then add the scoring stars. 

Following the Toronto (or Edmonton) model is a bad idea. You spend far too much money on your superstars and then you don't have enough left for a solid roster, and if your goaltending isn't exceptional you will be sunk in the playoffs. 

My biggest beef with the Sabres has been based on not properly addressing goaltending first. Maybe now it will be okay if Levi is the real deal, but if he has an up and down development path to still work through, playoffs might still be several years away. Power helps, Levi helps, but it's not enough yet. 

I've been saying it, too.  For some reason, goaltending became fungible in a lot of fans' minds right before the Miller trade.  Like it didn't matter anymore.

Good playoff teams always have great goaltending.  It might be a good goaltender who gets hot, or it might be the greatest of all time like Hasek, or a simply excellent one like Miller, but a good playoff team needs it.  

On the blueline, the Sabres are fortunate to need only a couple of pieces because there are two HOF possibilities back there already.  GO GET THE D MEN AND G.

As for Shanadubas, well, they didn't come up with anything on the back end that is meaningful except for an injured goaltender and a defenseman who can't spell his own last name correctly.  And McCabe, whom I always will love.

[Brawndo]

The Leafs have 43 days until Matthews and Marner NMC kick in on July 1st and Nylander’s 10 team M-NTC kicks in on this same day. 
 

Friedman mentioned that Matthews signing an extension was a definite with Dubas coming back, there is some doubt if Dubas wasn’t back. 
 

This should be interesting 

[Brawndo]

27 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

FYI the entire Marlies coaching staff was shown the door today, as well.

They were all Dubas Hires, I imagine Keefe goes soon as well 

[PerreaultForever]

Maybe they trade Matthews to Arizona 🙂

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

In our division, assuming KA adds a D or 2 and a veteran goalie, which team would you want to be Buffalo, Det, Toronto, Ottawa, TB, Bos, or Fla?  All these teams will have playoffs aspirations next season. Outside of Fla and maybe TB, the Sabres are arguably the best positioned team with 3 scoring lines, youth, cap space, a potential franchise goalie, and 3 top young D.  Boston is aging fast, Ott and Det are a step behind us on the development curve, and Toronto is overly top heavy and aging.  TB and Fla still look to be in their windows, but TB is heading for a major cap crunch. Florida is also going to need goaltending soon if Knight doesn’t get healthy.

KA get the necessary additions and then let the players take over.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The Leafs and Oilers are the reason I harp on defense and goaltending. Scoring 300 goals is fun, but to win on the playoffs you need to kill penalties, clear the zone quickly, grind and get key saves from the goalies. 

See also:  Florida Panthers

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Doohickie said:

See also:  Florida Panthers

As well as the other 3 teams remaining in the playoffs.