The Arizona Coyotes Arena Referendum fails to pass

[Doohicksie]

[Marvin]

59 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Funny.  I had read that the Rockets were the primary reason that Houston did not try a team.

[HoosierDaddy]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

This whole situation is nuts. The Coyotes got evicted from an arena after the owners of the venue determined that it would be more profitable to free up the dates for concerts and rodeos than to host a major professional sports team. Then you have Houston begging the NHL to allow their voters the chance to approve a publically-funded area when the Toyota Center is only 19 years old. It's just crazy to me that a team even thinks of asking for a new arena that soon. Even the Texas Rangers got 27 years out of the Ballpark at Arlington and that seemed really short. 

[Doohicksie]

51 minutes ago, HoosierDaddy said:

Even the Texas Rangers got 27 years out of the Ballpark at Arlington and that seemed really short. 

I thought the old stadium was 123% nicer than the new one.  The new one is butt ugly, but it does have a roof which is necessary when it's 108°F out.

[steveoath]

11 hours ago, HoosierDaddy said:

The Coyotes got evicted from an arena after the owners of the venue determined that it would be more profitable to free up the dates for concerts and rodeos than to host a major professional sports team

Thats one way to look at it. The other way,  is that they were evicted because they did not pay rent.  And also tried to avoid paying negotiated fees with vendors.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/coyotes-facing-eviction

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/mar/17/arizona-coyotes-gila-river-arena-tax-lockout-move-glendale-tempe-hockey-nhl

 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

16 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I thought the old stadium was 123% nicer than the new one.  The new one is butt ugly, but it does have a roof which is necessary when it's 108°F out.

What about home field advantage?

[Night Train]

It's obvious Arizona was a mistake but what city is actually ready with an arena and stable ownership ?  

[Taro T]

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What about home field advantage?

There's a reason that baseball stayed out of the south except for spring training for 70-80 years and then almost immediately moved into a dome on its 1st foray down there.

Sitting in the sun for 3-1/2 hours when it's over 95°F really us not pleasant.

It's not about an advantage for the players (most of whom play college ball in the south anyhow so they're kind of used to it); it's about getting people to actually pay to sweat away a few pounds while watching paint attempt to dry.

[PromoTheRobot]

24 minutes ago, Taro T said:

There's a reason that baseball stayed out of the south except for spring training for 70-80 years and then almost immediately moved into a dome on its 1st foray down there.

Sitting in the sun for 3-1/2 hours when it's over 95°F really us not pleasant.

It's not about an advantage for the players (most of whom play college ball in the south anyhow so they're kind of used to it); it's about getting people to actually pay to sweat away a few pounds while watching paint attempt to dry.

I was just being snarky about Bills fans wanting football in the elements.

[Sabres73]

13 hours ago, Night Train said:

It's obvious Arizona was a mistake but what city is actually ready with an arena and stable ownership ?  

Well, you wouldn't be an owner without a team. But the obvious cities would be Houston, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, Quebec City, for starters.

[Doohicksie]

On 5/23/2023 at 6:56 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

What about home field advantage?

Yeah, the Rangers don't like it either.

[Doohicksie]

14 hours ago, Taro T said:

 it's about getting people to actually pay to sweat away a few pounds while watching paint attempt to dry.

Off on a tangent here, but in the old stadium everyone knew not to get seats on the third base side which caught sunlight far longer than the first base side.  It was like being in a rotisserie turned up to high.

But to follow the tangent a bit further:  By definition all HS football stadiums in Texas are aligned on a north-south axis.  The home fans get the west seats (facing away from the setting sun) and the visitors get to look into the sun's death ray until it sets.  This is deliberate.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Doohickie

[Sabres Super Fan]

Someone has to explain to me why using up a potential expansion payday which helps the money losing Buffalo Sabres is better than staying in Phoenix with a joint new Phoenix Suns arena like Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, New York, Detroit, Philadelphia and Dallas does it sharing a arena. When you consider that is what the Houston Rockets are offering? Do that in Phoenix when the Suns build their new arena. I get the current Phoenix Suns arena has obstructed seats. But it’s better than Arizona State tiny hockey arena. Why is it bad now the Phoenix Suns arena but Arizona State arena was ok? When the Phoenix Suns arena was good enough to leave Winnipeg for to begin with? Again I don’t get it but I don’t get the NHL at all. The NHL is backwards even compared to MLS that gets facilities built and keeps expanding. BSF what are you saying. What I am saying is keep Phoenix in Phoenix. Expand to Houston (WHA), San Antonio (AHL), San Diego (WHA), Cincinnati (WHA), Cleveland (NHL & WHA), Atlanta (NHL twice), Birmingham (They had the Birmingham Bulls for years in the WHA no professional teams in the state of Alabama), Indianapolis (WHA), Kansas City (NHL), Hartford (No professional teams in the state of Connecticut WHA & NHL). That gets you to 42 team NHL if you can’t get a major boost in money and revenue from television then something is wrong? Because that puts the NHL more into the Deep South and Midwest that is under represented in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Marvin]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Sabres Fan said:

Someone has to explain to me why using up a potential expansion payday which helps the money losing Buffalo Sabres is better than staying in Phoenix with a joint new Phoenix Suns arena like Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, New York, Detroit, Philadelphia and Dallas does it sharing a arena. When you consider that is what the Houston Rockets are offering? Do that in Phoenix when the Suns build their new arena. I get the current Phoenix Suns arena has obstructed seats. But it’s better than Arizona State tiny hockey arena. Why is it bad now the Phoenix Suns arena but Arizona State arena was ok? When the Phoenix Suns arena was good enough to leave Winnipeg for to begin with? Again I don’t get it but I don’t get the NHL at all. The NHL is backwards even compared to MLS that gets facilities built and keeps expanding. BSF what are you saying. What I am saying is keep Phoenix in Phoenix. Expand to Houston (WHA), San Antonio (AHL), San Diego (WHA), Cincinnati (WHA), Cleveland (NHL & WHA), Atlanta (NHL twice), Birmingham (They had the Birmingham Bulls for years in the WHA no professional teams in the state of Alabama), Indianapolis (WHA), Kansas City (NHL), Hartford (No professional teams in the state of Connecticut WHA & NHL). That gets you to 42 team NHL if you can’t get a major boost in money and revenue from television then something is wrong? Because that puts the NHL more into the Deep South and Midwest that is under represented in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Honestly, they probably will stretch out expansion for decades to collect bigger and bigger fees.  However, I think that you are over-estimating the appeal of hockey in the US and are under-estimating the resistance from the owners of NBA teams in many cities -- many of whom own the arenas and do not want to share winter entertainment dollars with an NHL team.

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Sabres Fan said:

Someone has to explain to me why using up a potential expansion payday which helps the money losing Buffalo Sabres is better than staying in Phoenix with a joint new Phoenix Suns arena like Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, New York, Detroit, Philadelphia and Dallas does it sharing a arena. When you consider that is what the Houston Rockets are offering? Do that in Phoenix when the Suns build their new arena. I get the current Phoenix Suns arena has obstructed seats. But it’s better than Arizona State tiny hockey arena. Why is it bad now the Phoenix Suns arena but Arizona State arena was ok? When the Phoenix Suns arena was good enough to leave Winnipeg for to begin with? Again I don’t get it but I don’t get the NHL at all. The NHL is backwards even compared to MLS that gets facilities built and keeps expanding. BSF what are you saying. What I am saying is keep Phoenix in Phoenix. Expand to Houston (WHA), San Antonio (AHL), San Diego (WHA), Cincinnati (WHA), Cleveland (NHL & WHA), Atlanta (NHL twice), Birmingham (They had the Birmingham Bulls for years in the WHA no professional teams in the state of Alabama), Indianapolis (WHA), Kansas City (NHL), Hartford (No professional teams in the state of Connecticut WHA & NHL). That gets you to 42 team NHL if you can’t get a major boost in money and revenue from television then something is wrong? Because that puts the NHL more into the Deep South and Midwest that is under represented in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

And a big fat NO to more expansion.

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Sabres Fan said:

Someone has to explain to me why using up a potential expansion payday which helps the money losing Buffalo Sabres is better than staying in Phoenix with a joint new Phoenix Suns arena like Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, New York, Detroit, Philadelphia and Dallas does it sharing a arena. When you consider that is what the Houston Rockets are offering? Do that in Phoenix when the Suns build their new arena. I get the current Phoenix Suns arena has obstructed seats. But it’s better than Arizona State tiny hockey arena. Why is it bad now the Phoenix Suns arena but Arizona State arena was ok? When the Phoenix Suns arena was good enough to leave Winnipeg for to begin with? Again I don’t get it but I don’t get the NHL at all. The NHL is backwards even compared to MLS that gets facilities built and keeps expanding. BSF what are you saying. What I am saying is keep Phoenix in Phoenix. Expand to Houston (WHA), San Antonio (AHL), San Diego (WHA), Cincinnati (WHA), Cleveland (NHL & WHA), Atlanta (NHL twice), Birmingham (They had the Birmingham Bulls for years in the WHA no professional teams in the state of Alabama), Indianapolis (WHA), Kansas City (NHL), Hartford (No professional teams in the state of Connecticut WHA & NHL). That gets you to 42 team NHL if you can’t get a major boost in money and revenue from television then something is wrong? Because that puts the NHL more into the Deep South and Midwest that is under represented in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Realize they likely will expand.  REALLY hate the idea of expanding beyond 32 teams.  Hate the idea of seeing another fanbase lose its team; but don't really see how they keep up the charade there more than 1 or 2 seasons tops.  Unless they figure out a realistic plan to give the team a home in the desert this year, can't see it going on any longer.  

And hopefully this is used as a case study for future teams considering building a rink away from the local major population center to see just how horribly bad a decision that is.  Yes, the land is cheap.  There is a reason for that.  Toronto could get away with moving to the far outskirts of Missisaugua; Chicago could probably move to Naperville; Detroit could probably move as far as East Lansing and still fill the barn.  But a team with no established roots and playing a niche sport in the city its ostentibly based out of shouldn't be making it hard for the majority of its local fan base to actually travel to see the team play in person.