The Arizona Coyotes Arena Referendum fails to pass

[Goldseatsaud]

Houston here we come 

[MattPie]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

I am trying to figure out how Salt Lake City supports both the Jazz and the Coyotes running at the same time.

Even without the Jazz, SLC is significantly smaller than any (?) other NHL market. it's a little bigger than the Buffalo/NF metro area, but add in Rochester that nearly doubles the Sabres market. Plus, unlike eastern cities there isn't another population center a couple hours down the road. Six hours to Vegas, eight to Denver with not much between.

 

[Brawndo]

 

[Scottysabres]

51 minutes ago, MattPie said:

Even without the Jazz, SLC is significantly smaller than any (?) other NHL market. it's a little bigger than the Buffalo/NF metro area, but add in Rochester that nearly doubles the Sabres market. Plus, unlike eastern cities there isn't another population center a couple hours down the road. Six hours to Vegas, eight to Denver with not much between.

 

True, but think of the children......

[DarthEbriate]

Well, if I'm an NHL-caliber UFA, I'm not signing in Arizona in the offseason. If I'm a fringe/tweener AHLer and this is my only shot at the big league, sure: sign me up. Except it's way too hot to live there.

If I'm Logan Cooley in the NCAA... no way in hell am I signing an ELC with this franchise and not having a stable future. There could be a new owner, GM, and city in any of the next 1-2 seasons, so I'm staying happily in Minnesota and playing my game. I'll go UFA and sign the same ELC anywhere I choose, thank you very much.

If I'm Dylan Guenther or Conor Geekie, I'm letting my agent tell them I'm happy to moved in any trade that they see fit, because I won't be signing anything beyond the minimum RFA years with this chickensh bantha fodder outfit.

[IKnowPhysics]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

Nobody's slowing *****.  The league will (and has to) claim that the team is staying until the last moving box is loaded into the station wagon.  You can't tell the one fan that maybe they'll stay, we'll see.  Daly will die on that hill until they unveil the new locked-in location and it's time to market the new logo.

But even if they do move, it's the middle of May.  Preseason starts in four months.  The league releases it's schedule in two months.  The team likely wouldn't be able to logistically coordinate a move that fast anyways without a plan already in place, so Daly's not technically incorrect.  2024-25, however...

[Eleven]

There's also this:  

I don't think anyone knows anything.

 

 

[MattPie]

12 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Nobody's slowing *****.  The league will (and has to) claim that the team is staying until the last moving box is loaded into the station wagon.  You can't tell the one fan that maybe they'll stay, we'll see.  Daly will die on that hill until they unveil the new locked-in location and it's time to market the new logo.

But even if they do move, it's the middle of May.  Preseason starts in four months.  The league releases it's schedule in two months.  The team likely wouldn't be able to logistically coordinate a move that fast anyways without a plan already in place, so Daly's not technically incorrect.  2024-25, however...

Super-unlikely they're not playing in AZ next season.

Quote

On February 10, 2022, the Coyotes signed a three-year agreement to play their home games at Mullett Arena, beginning with the 2022–23 NHL season.[8] The additional cost of completing the arena to accommodate the Coyotes was approximately $19.7 million, which was paid by the team.[2] During the Coyotes' tenure in the building, it officially has the lowest permanent seating capacity in the NHL.

Deals can be broken, but it's not like there's a pressing need for the Coyotes to move for 2023-24.

[klos1963]

8 hours ago, kas23 said:

This is just strange. I’ve never been to Tempe, but areas around airports are usually wastelands due to the plane traffic. What else do they want to do with this land? Plus, it looks like this was going to almost completely privately funded. I guess they don’t want nice things. Sounds like it was really a referendum on how popular hockey is in the desert. 

Tempe is actually a fun city.  ASU  and the nightlife surrounding it is wild.  Lots to do around there.  It makes no sense to have voted this down.

Also makes no sense to me to have a public vote when it's a private transaction. No govt funding,  privately financed.

I'm pretty bummed about this.  I loved going to games here after many years as a Sabres season ticket holder.  

I wonder about the impact on the hockey programs here.  Youth hockey growth in Phoenix was one of the best in the nation. My boys grew up playing hockey.  It was very well organized. 

Really sucks for hockey fans here and there are plenty of them.  It's just been mismanaged from day 1. Wrong place to play,  poor ownership,  just never got anyone on the same page.

We actually outdrew the Sabres and Sens on 2021-22. We just needed about 3000 more per game and probably would have achieved that with the new arena. 

 

[Hawerchuk]

Atlanta has had two chances at this. The answer is NO!

[klos1963]

8 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Hmm.

Oh.

My geography is terrible and I'm not going to prop myself up with Google. Has Arizona State managed to establish a real NCAA program out there? Or does ASU have nothing to do with the area we're talking about.

ASU went Div I a few years back. Appeared in the tournament as well. It's a pretty solid program. Lot of European players on the team.

[Claude Balls]

Colorado could use another team. The South Park Cows.

 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, klos1963 said:

Tempe is actually a fun city.  ASU  and the nightlife surrounding it is wild.  Lots to do around there.  It makes no sense to have voted this down.

Also makes no sense to me to have a public vote when it's a private transaction. No govt funding,  privately financed.

I'm pretty bummed about this.  I loved going to games here after many years as a Sabres season ticket holder.  

I wonder about the impact on the hockey programs here.  Youth hockey growth in Phoenix was one of the best in the nation. My boys grew up playing hockey.  It was very well organized. 

Really sucks for hockey fans here and there are plenty of them.  It's just been mismanaged from day 1. Wrong place to play,  poor ownership,  just never got anyone on the same page.

We actually outdrew the Sabres and Sens on 2021-22. We just needed about 3000 more per game and probably would have achieved that with the new arena. 

 

Was the referendum just for Tempe voters, Tempe and Phoenix voters, or statewide?

Stinks that it didn't pass.  Hope you guys can get something worked out with the Suns owner.  Really hate seeing any fanbase lose its team.  Cuts way too close to where we've feared we've been at in Buffalo with the Bills and possibly even the Sabres back at the bankruptcy filing.  And even more so with the Braves and Stallions and Destroyers leaving town.  (Pretty sure the Stampede and Lizzard were going to go away regardless as both their leagues seemed to be on very precarious ground when they left.  NPSL actually did fold when the Lizzard folded, but tried to revive the old MISL before finally giving up the ghost a few years later.)

Just hate seeing any fanbase lose its team.

[klos1963]

38 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Was the referendum just for Tempe voters, Tempe and Phoenix voters, or statewide?

Stinks that it didn't pass.  Hope you guys can get something worked out with the Suns owner.  Really hate seeing any fanbase lose its team.  Cuts way too close to where we've feared we've been at in Buffalo with the Bills and possibly even the Sabres back at the bankruptcy filing.  And even more so with the Braves and Stallions and Destroyers leaving town.  (Pretty sure the Stampede and Lizzard were going to go away regardless as both their leagues seemed to be on very precarious ground when they left.  NPSL actually did fold when the Lizzard folded, but tried to revive the old MISL before finally giving up the ghost a few years later.)

Just hate seeing any fanbase lose its team.

It was just Tempe voters.

I remember the Braves moving,  this isn't the same , but it still blows.

[msw2112]

My guess is that they'll play in AZ next season.  As mentioned above, they signed a 3-year deal with ASU for their current arena.  Staying another year buys them time to 1) try to find an alternative new arena in AZ (which looks unlikely); or 2) to prep for a move to the city with the best bid.  Given that next season is only a few months away, it seems silly to rush into anything.  I'm in AZ and am close to accepting that pro hockey is going to leave.  It's a shame, as I like to go see the Sabres play here every year, plus a couple of other games too.  The metropolitan Phoenix area will miss the team, assuming they leave, but structuring it so that the residents of Tempe were the deciding factor was a risky proposition.  Tempe is a university town with a lot of liberal folks who are not fans of professional sports and who saw this deal as corporate welfare (which it really wasn't).  The Coyotes were going to get tax breaks after the fact, but $0 public money was going into the project up front.  That's a far cry from what other stadium deals look like (such as the $850 million or so that NYS and Erie County are paying for the Bills' new stadium).

[Marvin]

16 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

It was just Tempe voters.

I remember the Braves moving,  this isn't the same , but it still blows.

The writing was on the wall with the Braves with the McAdoo trade.  I am looking for something similar with Arizona.

[klos1963]

32 minutes ago, Marvin said:

The writing was on the wall with the Braves with the McAdoo trade.  I am looking for something similar with Arizona.

I don't think so.  John Y Brown had a strategy to lose fan interest to make the move 'easy'.

I don't see a benefit to tanking,  it wouldn't change the situation and the management team would likely want to stay with the team after any possible move. 

And they have a great pipeline of prospects and a ton of draft picks. 

They're a year or 2 behind the Sabres in their rebuild. 

[shrader]

17 hours ago, Taro T said:

Was the referendum just for Tempe voters, Tempe and Phoenix voters, or statewide?

Stinks that it didn't pass.  Hope you guys can get something worked out with the Suns owner.  Really hate seeing any fanbase lose its team.  Cuts way too close to where we've feared we've been at in Buffalo with the Bills and possibly even the Sabres back at the bankruptcy filing.  And even more so with the Braves and Stallions and Destroyers leaving town.  (Pretty sure the Stampede and Lizzard were going to go away regardless as both their leagues seemed to be on very precarious ground when they left.  NPSL actually did fold when the Lizzard folded, but tried to revive the old MISL before finally giving up the ghost a few years later.)

Just hate seeing any fanbase lose its team.

I can't imagine the Destroyers leaving had much of an impact on anyone.

[Hank]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:01 AM, pastajoe said:

 

I would love to see a team in Utah. 

[Hank]

I think within the next decade we get four more teams, with two of them being KC and Houston, don't see them opting to move the yotes there instead of receiving an expansion fee. 

[Taro T]

31 minutes ago, shrader said:

I can't imagine the Destroyers leaving had much of an impact on anyone.

Probably not a huge one.  But it probably cost Golisano some money as the Sabres run the barn even though the County owns it.  Could them leaving have cost the Sabres an extra player or 2 when the team had an internal cap significantly lower than that of the rest of the league (both before and after the league brought in a salary cap)?

But losing the Braves and the threats to lose the Bills and the Sabres sure did have impact.

And it stinks when fanbases lose their teams regardless as to whether it's for a novelty sport or an established one or whether its a factor of economics or because a small person decides to be petty.

[shrader]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Probably not a huge one.  But it probably cost Golisano some money as the Sabres run the barn even though the County owns it.  Could them leaving have cost the Sabres an extra player or 2 when the team had an internal cap significantly lower than that of the rest of the league (both before and after the league brought in a salary cap)?

I'd have to imagine that towards the end they actually lost money opening the doors for a game.  That whole thing fell apart so fast, along with the league itself.  But they were gone pretty much at the very second Golisano bought the team.  Hamister and his embezzler partner lost the bid for the Sabres to Golisano and then he immediately moved the team to Columbus.

[klos1963]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

I would love to see a team in Utah. 

Would they sell beer at the arena?

[Marvin]

43 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Would they sell beer at the arena?

Heck, what about beer advertisements?  How about Tim Horton's or Starbuck's?

[Hank]

2 hours ago, klos1963 said:

Would they sell beer at the arena?

I have no idea. Do they sell beer at Jazz games? Never been there.