GDT: The real semifinal. Round 3.

[Eleven]

I don't love Tkachuk, but I do love his OT goal celebration of just finding the door and leaving the rink.

[Stoner]

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Who you pulling for, Hershey or Rochester?  

Gotta support the team!

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Gotta support the team!

You have a future in politics.

[Brawndo]

 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Gotta support the team!

[Wyldnwoody44]

Losing 2-1 to the Panthers during the last week of the season isn't making me feel so bad right now, they are just rolling. 

[Pimlach]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:17 AM, Randall Flagg said:

Miller wasn't as bad here as everyone claimed 

Yes, he really was.   I know at times he was playing hurt (like all players do), but sometimes he was unbelievably bad.  He was capable of much more, but he didn't deliver.   Like Montour and many others, he was another guy that was put in a bad situation and didn't want to be here.   After missing on Stahl and Hall, Adams learned something important.  He really got it right getting Tuch, a veteran that wanted to be here and could help change the culture.  

Over the past 10 years there are so many veteran players that did not do well in Buffalo that it becomes hard to blame the players without looking within.  Maybe some of these veteran players didn't object to Buffalo at first, but a run of FO/GM firings, some really bad head coaches (none that ever got another HC shot in the NHL), poor leadership within the team, player cliques and factions, small crowds of mostly unhappy people, and the organizations top-down acceptance of losing all took a huge toll on the players and the reputation of the franchise. 

 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Losing 2-1 to the Panthers during the last week of the season isn't making me feel so bad right now, they are just rolling. 

And yet — even at the start of the playoffs (and against the Sabres) — they were platooning Lyon in goal. Bob’s getting locked in has pushed them over the top.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Losing 2-1 to the Panthers during the last week of the season isn't making me feel so bad right now, they are just rolling. 

We didn't roll over and play poorly that game either.  Their journeyman goalie stood on his head and won the game for them.  

It is hard to rationalize that the Sabres would be doing anywhere near as well.   We do not match up to Boston like they do, they simply were more physical than the Bruins, not something you see too often.   We probably would not be getting the Bobrovsky-like goaltending needed to shut down the Leaves big guns either.  Whenever we played the Canes we had to shorten the bench drastically, which during playoff time is the opposite of what you want to do.  

The Panthers got hot and they squeaked in because we lost points to poor teams that were below us in the standings.  Our home ice performance and inconsistent goaltending was a problem. 

[Doohicksie]

30 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

After missing on Stahl [sic] and Hall

I still don't see those as Kevyn's moves.  Yes he made the trades but I put those on Krueger (with Pegula's blessing).

32 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Over the past 10 years there are so many veteran players that did not do well in Buffalo that it becomes hard to blame the players without looking within. 

This I can agree with though.

[Doohicksie]

23 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

It is hard to rationalize that the Sabres would be doing anywhere near as well. 

I dunno.  Levi was just coming off the NCAA playoffs.  He might have lit on fire.  That's my rationalization and I'm sticking to it.

25 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

we lost points to poor teams that were below us in the standings.  Our home ice performance and inconsistent goaltending was a problem. 

Perfect summary of this past Sabres season.

[Randall Flagg]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, he really was.   I know at times he was playing hurt (like all players do), but sometimes he was unbelievably bad.  He was capable of much more, but he didn't deliver.   Like Montour and many others, he was another guy that was put in a bad situation and didn't want to be here.   After missing on Stahl and Hall, Adams learned something important.  He really got it right getting Tuch, a veteran that wanted to be here and could help change the culture.  

Over the past 10 years there are so many veteran players that did not do well in Buffalo that it becomes hard to blame the players without looking within.  Maybe some of these veteran players didn't object to Buffalo at first, but a run of FO/GM firings, some really bad head coaches (none that ever got another HC shot in the NHL), poor leadership within the team, player cliques and factions, small crowds of mostly unhappy people, and the organizations top-down acceptance of losing all took a huge toll on the players and the reputation of the franchise. 

 

I completely disagree now because I did at the time, and I think exaggerations brought on by the sorry state of the roster at the time only get worse in hindsight, not better

Montour was really only rough during spring of 2021 too but everyone broad brushes his whole tenure as well. 

[Randall Flagg]

The problems with our roster in 2016 through 2022 were easy to diagnose before each season which is why I had a run of predicting point totals at the end of each year with an error margin of about +/- 3, those seasons were as predictable as the calendar. Colin Miller was never an issue outside of the fact that he was slotted too high but that isn't his fault and points to the other problems we had. Same with Montour 

And like anything else, the further we get away from those times the less accurate general discourse about them becomes 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Randall Flagg

[Randall Flagg]

I am also distinguishing between the end state sabres in which everyone had been sufficiently grinded into a pulp of despair, and the slightly subpar hockey that snowballed to that point over a span of 4 months every fall and winter. That hockey was the real sabres, whose strengths and weaknesses told the story of the season, and the whimpering finish is probably what sticks in peoples minds and juxtaposes so strongly with what we see these players doing elsewhere in the playoffs. That's just how humans handle things when their GM punts year after year while watching yltheir agonizingly slow descent to the basement, as we can see by those players flourishing on teams that take hockey seriously 

Sure that Miller and that Montour were sadsack hockey players but it was obvious that those guys weren't Montour and Miller, even just comparing to most of the season up to those points 

[Eleven]

You two have no idea how hard I had to work to figure out you were discussing COLIN Miller, whose tenure I don't even remember even though it is very recent.

Montour was a decent defenseman--he needed some polishing--but he was ok here.  Miller, I still have no idea who we're talking about, even though I've now looked it up.  

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

And like anything else, the further we get away from those times the less accurate general discourse about them becomes

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

We didn't roll over and play poorly that game either.  Their journeyman goalie stood on his head and won the game for them.  

It is hard to rationalize that the Sabres would be doing anywhere near as well.   We do not match up to Boston like they do, they simply were more physical than the Bruins, not something you see too often.   We probably would not be getting the Bobrovsky-like goaltending needed to shut down the Leaves big guns either.  Whenever we played the Canes we had to shorten the bench drastically, which during playoff time is the opposite of what you want to do.  

The Panthers got hot and they squeaked in because we lost points to poor teams that were below us in the standings.  Our home ice performance and inconsistent goaltending was a problem. 

Sabres would've most likely been out in the 1st round because they wouldn't have caught the B's.  They'd've been the 7 seed and would've played the team that kicked the snot out of them twice when that team was invested in the outcome of the game and they snuck past them in the 3rd game when that opponent wasn't particularly invested in the game.

If the Sabres would've won 1 game in that potential 1st round matchup it would've been a lot.  You say they didn't match up well with the B's.  They matched up way worse against the Canes.

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

I am also distinguishing between the end state sabres in which everyone had been sufficiently grinded into a pulp of despair, and the slightly subpar hockey that snowballed to that point over a span of 4 months every fall and winter. That hockey was the real sabres, whose strengths and weaknesses told the story of the season, and the whimpering finish is probably what sticks in peoples minds and juxtaposes so strongly with what we see these players doing elsewhere in the playoffs. That's just how humans handle things when their GM punts year after year while watching yltheir agonizingly slow descent to the basement, as we can see by those players flourishing on teams that take hockey seriously 

Sure that Miller and that Montour were sadsack hockey players but it was obvious that those guys weren't Montour and Miller, even just comparing to most of the season up to those points 

In terms of making catastrophically bad decisions Botts is up there with Milbury and just about his absolute worst was not sacking the comically in over his head Phil Housley in January 2019 after a run of insanely dumb luck had us in playoff contention but we were in total free fall. Had he been replaced by someone merely competent I think that team makes the playoffs. Then he sacked Housley at the end of the season and hired the single worst coach in NHL history.

[Marvin]

39 minutes ago, sabremike said:

In terms of making catastrophically bad decisions Botts is up there with Milbury and just about his absolute worst was not sacking the comically in over his head Phil Housley in January 2019 after a run of insanely dumb luck had us in playoff contention but we were in total free fall. Had he been replaced by someone merely competent I think that team makes the playoffs. Then he sacked Housley at the end of the season and hired the single worst coach in NHL history.

Although Housley was not good as a coach, I blame Botterill more for the team falling out of the playoffs that precipitously.  The team started falling shortly after Berglund quit.  Housley diagnosed the problem accurately: he said in several post-game interviews that the team needed a centre to step up.  (Why he continued to give Sobotka hours of ice time is still a mystery, so it's not like Housley was without a lot of fault.)  We had 3 1st round draft picks; we could have moved one for a competent middle-6 centre.  Moreover, the team only truly collapsed when Botterill said the team's season-long solid play was a mirage in his first interview after the TDL, where he wasted a 1st.  Until the last 2 games of that season, the team won once.  I could see the coaching staff and the players sag after that press conference.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I completely disagree now because I did at the time, and I think exaggerations brought on by the sorry state of the roster at the time only get worse in hindsight, not better

Montour was really only rough during spring of 2021 too but everyone broad brushes his whole tenure as well. 

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

The problems with our roster in 2016 through 2022 were easy to diagnose before each season which is why I had a run of predicting point totals at the end of each year with an error margin of about +/- 3, those seasons were as predictable as the calendar. Colin Miller was never an issue outside of the fact that he was slotted too high but that isn't his fault and points to the other problems we had. Same with Montour 

And like anything else, the further we get away from those times the less accurate general discourse about them becomes 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I am also distinguishing between the end state sabres in which everyone had been sufficiently grinded into a pulp of despair, and the slightly subpar hockey that snowballed to that point over a span of 4 months every fall and winter. That hockey was the real sabres, whose strengths and weaknesses told the story of the season, and the whimpering finish is probably what sticks in peoples minds and juxtaposes so strongly with what we see these players doing elsewhere in the playoffs. That's just how humans handle things when their GM punts year after year while watching yltheir agonizingly slow descent to the basement, as we can see by those players flourishing on teams that take hockey seriously 

Sure that Miller and that Montour were sadsack hockey players but it was obvious that those guys weren't Montour and Miller, even just comparing to most of the season up to those points 

I read you first post and replied based on my impression of Miller’s play as a Sabre.  You have responded 3 more times and now I have no idea what you are saying.  You liked Colin Miller in Buffalo and that’s fine.  We certainly had worse players than him during his tenure here.  
 

I thought Montour was good, not at the level he is now obviously, but definitely talented.  He is in a better place for him, he has matured, his game is consistent , good to see him succeed. 
 

Your last post?  Don’t know what to say other than you lost me.  
 

The Sabres ownership and prior FO(s) created a terrible culture, one that most players could not thrive in.  I think we can all agree with that.   Beyond that, I am not interested in what people think of past players or who revises their stories.  I am looking forward to see if Adams can make this team a perennial contender, his stated goal.  

[Zamboni]

F Vegas

 

[pastajoe]

Eichel might get his name on the Cup before McDavid.

[Crusader1969]

Eichel looking like a conn Smyth candidate 

Happy for him and Happy he brought the Sabres Tuch, Krebs and Kulich. 
 

win win 

[Marvin]

7 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Who were the exceptions?

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Eichel looking like a conn Smyth candidate 

Happy for him and Happy he brought the Sabres Tuch, Krebs and Kulich. 
 

win win 

Good for you. You and Thorny should form a Club and toast each other's superior maturity. The trade looks to have helped the Sabres. Still want Eichel to lose and absolutely do not want Eichel to get the Conn Smyth after the ROR experience. OTOH, KA can use it as a trade chip. If you take so-and-so, it might end with a Cup and a Conn Smythe winner.