Biron Bashing

[Eleven]

Preface: I do think Ryan Miller should be the starter on this team. That's not what I'm questioning with this post.

 

What I am questioning, however, is the litany of remarks I've seen on this board in recent weeks to the effect that Biron is useless / not of NHL-starter calibre / best seen with a towel around his neck, etc. Couldn't be more wrong.

 

Let's start with what Martin Biron is NOT: He is not the second coming of Dominik Hasek--a tough act to follow. He is not a superstar goaltender on the level with Belfour, Brodeur, or even Kolzig. Of course, in Buffalo, where the Sabres win the Vezina 20 percent of the time, expectations are very high. This, however, doesn't mean that the guy sucks or isn't a starter-quality goalie.

 

According to one ranking (http://www.hockeyzoneplus.com/goalies/nhl04_e.htm), Biron was 15th-best last season. The NHL's stats have him listed 12th for the last season. (No link possible --go to nhl.com, click "STATS" on the left, and use the menus to search for goalies in 2003-04.) Of course, in a 30 team league, if each team had only one goaltender, that would put Biron at average starter-quality.

 

The way I see it, Biron is an exactly-average starting goaltender who probably would have had more success if not burdened with a very below-average offense the last several seasons.

 

While Miller is the future, and should be getting the bulk of starts this year, let's not think of Biron as a complete zero. We have an Edwards-Sauve situation right now (remember, they teamed up to win a Vezina), not a Barrasso-Cloutier situation. Biron may not be Hasek, but he's not John Blue, either.

 

I'd rather consider the opposite of some of the posts I've seen: that Biron is too good to be sitting on a bench. There are probably a few teams that need an average-starter-calibre goaltender who would give up a skilled player in return. Noronen is good enough for the bench if Miller is going to start 60+ games. (But if Miller can't start 60 or 65, the Sabres need Biron, not Noronen.)

[Corp000085]

Biron has been pretty non-descript, following the greatest goalie ever. That's the only reason.

 

I think biron needs a trade to be an above average goalie in the NHL. See brian griese following john elway in the NFL. It's the same symptom. However, Biron has one thing that miller doesn't: experience. This is why i believe he'll stay over noronen. I think biron is a likeable guy. He's outgoing, very friendly to the media, a regular 20 something living in clarence, but he's not dominik hasek.

[hopeleslyobvious]

Preface: I do think Ryan Miller should be the starter on this team. That's not what I'm questioning with this post.

 

What I am questioning, however, is the litany of remarks I've seen on this board in recent weeks to the effect that Biron is useless / not of NHL-starter calibre / best seen with a towel around his neck, etc. Couldn't be more wrong.

 

Let's start with what Martin Biron is NOT: He is not the second coming of Dominik Hasek--a tough act to follow. He is not a superstar goaltender on the level with Belfour, Brodeur, or even Kolzig. Of course, in Buffalo, where the Sabres win the Vezina 20 percent of the time, expectations are very high. This, however, doesn't mean that the guy sucks or isn't a starter-quality goalie.

 

According to one ranking (http://www.hockeyzoneplus.com/goalies/nhl04_e.htm), Biron was 15th-best last season. The NHL's stats have him listed 12th for the last season. (No link possible --go to nhl.com, click "STATS" on the left, and use the menus to search for goalies in 2003-04.) Of course, in a 30 team league, if each team had only one goaltender, that would put Biron at average starter-quality.

 

The way I see it, Biron is an exactly-average starting goaltender who probably would have had more success if not burdened with a very below-average offense the last several seasons.

 

While Miller is the future, and should be getting the bulk of starts this year, let's not think of Biron as a complete zero. We have an Edwards-Sauve situation right now (remember, they teamed up to win a Vezina), not a Barrasso-Cloutier situation. Biron may not be Hasek, but he's not John Blue, either.

 

I'd rather consider the opposite of some of the posts I've seen: that Biron is too good to be sitting on a bench. There are probably a few teams that need an average-starter-calibre goaltender who would give up a skilled player in return. Noronen is good enough for the bench if Miller is going to start 60+ games. (But if Miller can't start 60 or 65, the Sabres need Biron, not Noronen.)

Biron does have decent stats...However, I was flipping through XM yesterday and on ESPN radio they were talking about how we have become too dependant on stats (they were talking about baseball, but I think the same argument applies). Biron has pretty good stats, but what the stats don't say is that (in my opinion) he can't make the big save with the game on the line. While it may not be his fault that the other team has a 2 on 1 with 5 minutes left in a one goal game, he still needs to make the save. I am not confident that he can do that consistently. And I think if the new crackdown on obstruction sticks, those types of situations are going to be a lot more common.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I have been biting my tongue on this one, because I have to admit up front I have always been a huge Biron fan.

Like Eleven said in the original post in this thread, this is not to say I don't like Miller or that Biron should be starting over Miller. If Miller plays 65 games this season, it means he made good use of the year in Rochester last season and the team is better off for it.

All that said, I think Biron is a legit NHL goalie and was always the better option when compared to Noronen. His problem is that he is streaky and gives up maddeningly soft goals at bad times .... but when he gets hot he CAN carry a team, and he did that at the end of the last season.

Again, I am not going to bat for him over Miller at this point, but I feel MUCH better with him as the othe option than Noronen. As for why he takes unfair heat, i think there are 2 reasons:

1. Fans love to call for changes and goalie is the position whose mistakes are magnified. It's just like the QB in football, too much credit, too much blame. There were people who routinely used to clamor for Reich when Kelly would have a bad day, which was ridiculous, so if he was not immune, no Buffalo athlete is safe.

2. His personality ... the guy is way too happy go lucky for most fans... remember, the guy before him used to get ticked off when he allowed a goal in practice. it rubs people the wrong way when Biron allows a soft goal in a loss, or even a win, and is smiling and yapping away to the media after the game. Personally, I like the fact that he never backs down and answers the questions and puts the bad goals behind him, because that is not easy, having played the position. But I can see where people could think he doesn't care enough.

[Eleven]

I have to admit up front I have always been a huge Biron fan.

Actually, you don't have to. We can tell from your screenname. Why did the NHL have to be such spoilsports and force him to change his number, anyway?

[hopeleslyobvious]

Personally, I like the fact that he never backs down and answers the questions and puts the bad goals behind him, because that is not easy, having played the position. But I can see where people could think he doesn't care enough.

I disagree. If he were able to put bad goals behind him, he wouldn't be so streaky.

[BetweenThePipes00]

The screename is a coincidence, I always wore 00, but it would be cool if they still let him.

 

I'd agree about the soft gols and the streakiness if he didn't give up soft goals even when he is hot. It seems like they are always there, win or lose, which is what is so frustrating.

[bottlecap]

I still question Ruff's ability to handle goalies. Putting the same

one in on back to back nights (home/road) doesn't make sense

to me. It doesn't make much sense with the same lineup either.

 

It seems like Lindy likes the American kid. He might be right

or wrong but I don't see keeping a $2.5 mil backup on the

bench.

 

I hope they can trade Biron for something good, not give him

up for nothing like more than a few recent player moves.

 

Any goalie who has his goalie's equipment stolen from the back

of his vehicle is "not all there" and I think that's the case

with Marty.

[deluca67]

I still question Ruff's ability to handle goalies. Putting the same

one in on back to back nights (home/road) doesn't make sense

to me. It doesn't make much sense with the same lineup either.

 

It seems like Lindy likes the American kid. He might be right

or wrong but I don't see keeping a $2.5 mil backup on the

bench.

 

I hope they can trade Biron for something good, not give him

up for nothing like more than a few recent player moves.

 

Any goalie who has his goalie's equipment stolen from the back

of his vehicle is "not all there" and I think that's the case

with Marty.

A good goalie should never be "all there" ;)

 

 

Status Quo has messed this thing up big time. Mikka is done. He doesn't want to be a part of this franchise. I can only guess that Marty is starting to feel the same way. This thing has gone on way to long.

 

They should have started with Marty. If for no other reason then Miller's imaturity. Have Marty start off and Start Miller every third. Then slowly increase the number of starts throughout the year. They should have let it play out. They are in such a hurry to have Miller be the #1 they may be putting him at risk. Much like Losman and the Bills. The couldn't wait to throw him in there. If Miller turns out not to be the guy then the Sabres have gone from having three goalies to having none. And they have nobody to blame but themselves.

[hopeleslyobvious]

A good goalie should never be "all there" ;)

 

 

Status Quo has messed this thing up big time. Mikka is done. He doesn't want to be a part of this franchise. I can only guess that Marty is starting to feel the same way. This thing has gone on way to long.

 

They should have started with Marty. If for no other reason then Miller's imaturity. Have Marty start off and Start Miller every third. Then slowly increase the number of starts throughout the year. They should have let it play out. They are in such a hurry to have Miller be the #1 they may be putting him at risk. Much like Losman and the Bills. The couldn't wait to throw him in there. If Miller turns out not to be the guy then the Sabres have gone from having three goalies to having none. And they have nobody to blame but themselves.

I disagree. Miller proved himself last year in Rochester, and won the job in camp. Why go with Biron who has had 3 years to prove himself and couldn't do it?

 

Even though Miller had a rough night last night, I would give him the start Monday. Show him the team has confidence in him.

[deluca67]

I disagree. Miller proved himself last year in Rochester, and won the job in camp. Why go with Biron who has had 3 years to prove himself and couldn't do it?

 

Even though Miller had a rough night last night, I would give him the start Monday. Show him the team has confidence in him.

Miller has done a great job. I'm not saying he does not deserve to be #1. I'm just saying when your dealing with three players and one position you have to do things different. You're going to need at least one of the other goalies to come through for at some point. I think the Sabres have done a poor job of keeping the other two goalies heads in the game. I am sure Mikka and Marty are hopeing to be dealt. That leaves you with a young goalie who is only a few NHL starts into his carreer.

 

Miller is the number 1. But sometimes the politics of the situation means you have to handle it differently.

[Satan81]

I think Biron is a career backup. He's had his shot, he just does not have the focus to play every night, hence the soft goals.

[Sabresince70]

It doesn't matter if you think Miller, Biron or Mika is the rue number one as far as what has to be done is concern. Trading one is a must. It seems that the Sabres mgt. is too concerned over trading one and then having him succeed elswhere. Let's be honest, at one time the Sabres felt each of these were very good goalies (that's why they drafted them). But at this point one must go. I would hope they look at the value of each and then pick which one HELPS the team most. That may not mean you get to keep the best two and trade the third - then every night you have someone who you believe is "very valuable" sitting on the bench whilethe two ahl prospects you got for the traded goalie are playing in Roc. How was the team improved? Nothing against Marty, but if he is kept as a "back-up" to Miller -and keep in mind that Ruff continues to say he is looking for a NO. 1 not a Edwards-Suave type tandem- then the team is spending 2 million for a guy to play every 5th game (maybe). A team on the lower pay range could maybe go with a lower grade back up for much (less than half) and maybe spend that extra 1.4 mil. trying to lure a higher grade free agent that will contribute now. (Besides Darcy's youong players for a NHL player (read Pyatt/Connolly) hasn't been reassurring.

[deluca67]

It doesn't matter if you think Miller, Biron or Mika is the rue number one as far as what has to be done is concern. Trading one is a must. It seems that the Sabres mgt. is too concerned over trading one and then having him succeed elswhere. Let's be honest, at one time the Sabres felt each of these were very good goalies (that's why they drafted them). But at this point one must go. I would hope they look at the value of each and then pick which one HELPS the team most. That may not mean you get to keep the best two and trade the third - then every night you have someone who you believe is "very valuable" sitting on the bench whilethe two ahl prospects you got for the traded goalie are playing in Roc. How was the team improved? Nothing against Marty, but if he is kept as a "back-up" to Miller -and keep in mind that Ruff continues to say he is looking for a NO. 1 not a Edwards-Suave type tandem- then the team is spending 2 million for a guy to play every 5th game (maybe). A team on the lower pay range could maybe go with a lower grade back up for much (less than half) and maybe spend that extra 1.4 mil. trying to lure a higher grade free agent that will contribute now. (Besides Darcy's youong players for a NHL player (read Pyatt/Connolly) hasn't been reassurring.

Does the $2 million make Biron untradeable? The Sabres might have to take a player they don't want in return to even the money out. Sort of like they do in the NBA.

 

And the Sabres have to be careful. There is a floor on the cap. If they trade away Biron they inch closer to that floor which I think is $25 million. If it comes to the trade deadline

and they are sellers they might not be able to make moves on players like McKee just to stay over the floor amount. I know it sounds goofy but it may end up being a concern.

[Taro T]

Does the $2 million make Biron untradeable? The Sabres might have to take a player they don't want in return to even the money out. Sort of like they do in the NBA.

 

And the Sabres have to be careful. There is a floor on the cap. If they trade away Biron they inch closer to that floor which I think is $25 million. If it comes to the trade deadline

and they are sellers they might not be able to make moves on players like McKee just to stay over the floor amount. I know it sounds goofy but it may end up being a concern.

I THINK the floor is $21 MM. I still haven't found a copy of the CBA, so I don't know if there is a higher minimum to collect revenue sharing.

 

As for which goalie to play when. I hope that after the Boston game Lindy went to Marty and Ryan and said that he'd play Ryan against Ottawa and regardless of how he did, that he'd play Marty against Pittsburgh. Ryan seems to have his head screwed on properly this year, and I don't think he took too much of a hit losing to the best team in the league.

 

If Lindy had played Marty against Ottawa, after essentially 2 weeks off, and things had gone the same way; Marty would now, most likely, be a basket case, or worse an Essensa case. As it is, Marty can play at home against Pittsburgh and SHOULD be able to beat them. I know the Pens have some strong offense and Marty has not historically done well against them, but I like his chances against Mario and Co. a lot better than he'd have had against Heatley and Co..

 

I have faith that Ryan can recover from the Ottawa game. I don't know that Marty would have been able to do that.

 

I would trade Mika, not because I think he is less capable than Marty, but just because he seems to live in Lindy's doghouse. I want the backup to be a guy Lindy is willing to play when necessary; I don't believe Mika fits that description. I actually think Mika has more upside than Marty does, but I don't believe he will ever get a legitimate chance here. Considering Lindy WILL play Marty, he should be the team's #2.

[Sabresince70]

I agree with almost everything, especially Mika being in Lindy's dog house. Except I'd keep Mika, spend the "extra money" and find Lindy a job somewhere else with the team. His dog house shouldn't come into play (and the same for "Darcy's pets)

[Eleven]

Nothing against Marty, but if he is kept as a "back-up" to Miller -and keep in mind that Ruff continues to say he is looking for a NO. 1 not a Edwards-Suave type tandem- then the team is spending 2 million for a guy to play every 5th game (maybe). A team on the lower pay range could maybe go with a lower grade back up for much (less than half) and maybe spend that extra 1.4 mil. trying to lure a higher grade free agent that will contribute now. (Besides Darcy's youong players for a NHL player (read Pyatt/Connolly) hasn't been reassurring.

Good reply. Biron starts a few teams, I think--just not this team. In a trade for Noronen, the Sabres get draft picks. In a trade for Biron, the Sabres get at least a prospect, and quite possibly a player who can be with the team right now. I hate to repeat myself, but if Miller can play 65 games this year, then the move is to trade Biron. Noronen can play 20 games (The Sabs lately have had 20+ back-to-backs), Biron should be starting for a team that doesn't have Ryan Miller, and the Sabs can get more for Marty.

 

To belabor the point through metaphor: The Sabres don't need Doug Flutie as a backup when Frank Reich will do just fine.

[Knightrider]

A good goalie should never be "all there" ;)

 

 

Status Quo has messed this thing up big time.  Mikka is done. He doesn't want to be a part of this franchise. I can only guess that Marty is starting to feel the same way. This thing has gone on way to long.

 

They should have started with Marty. If for no other reason then Miller's imaturity. Have Marty start off and Start Miller every third. Then slowly increase the number of starts throughout the year. They should have let it play out. They are in such a hurry to have Miller be the #1 they may be putting him at risk. Much like Losman and the Bills. The couldn't wait to throw him in there. If Miller turns out not to be the guy then the Sabres have gone from having three goalies to having none. And they have nobody to blame but themselves.

The difference between Miller and Losman is that there was an open competition (at least between Biron and Miller) to be the starter. KH came in with the understanding he was #2 after JP was "annionted". There is a big difference...

[BetweenThePipes00]

I don't think anyone is going to take on Biron's salary ... no doubt he could bring more talent if money was not an issue, but it is a huge issue in this league now ... that combined with the fact that every GM in the league knows they need to move one of these guys is going to hold them over the barrell means they will not get true value for Noronen or Biron.

They botched this one when they couldn't decide between Noronen and Biron 3 years ago. When Noronen had his first big year in Rochesher and Biron had his best year and played 72 games in Buffalo, that's when they should have made a deal, both guys' value was at its peak. But I guess that's easy to say now.

[Sabresince70]

I don't think anyone is going to take on Biron's salary ... no doubt he could bring more talent if money was not an issue, but it is a huge issue in this league now ... that combined with the fact that every GM in the league knows they need to move one of these guys is going to hold them over the barrell means they will not get true value for Noronen or Biron.

They botched this one when they couldn't decide between Noronen and Biron 3 years ago. When Noronen had his first big year in Rochesher and Biron had his best year and played 72 games in Buffalo, that's when they should have made a deal, both guys' value was at its peak. But I guess that's easy to say now.

Should have been the decision 3 years ago unless they were looking for a Edwards/Suave tyupe thing. If they were planning all along for a 1-2 goalie then you are absolutely right, the trade should have been made b4 Mika every played in Buffalo. And that's just for the 2 goalie system - when you add in Miller (I think he was Hobie Baker winner) it gets even worse. Miller is the only one who's stock has risen(maybe). And I am in no way advocating trading him. They allowed a situation to come up by indecision. The only person that appears to have made a clear cut pick as to the goalies is Lindy. He doesn't want Mika. So... if the Mgt. truly trusts the coach he should go (two years ago would have been better). But they seem so hesitant to pull the trigger that it makes you believe they aren't trusting Ruff. It almost gives the impression that there is a power struggle with the goalies in the middle. Unfortunately this isn't helping the team. I almost expect a move to be made with the goalies and then a move in mgt. A sort of "if you keep Mika - I'm gone" or a "if you keep Marty I'll leave kind of fight. Or maybe they just waited so long no one will take either of them until you have to try passing them on waivers.

[mphs mike]

If Biron's salary is the sole impediment to moving him, is it possible for the Sabres to pay part of his salary the way baseball teams do? How would that work in the salary cap era?

[BetweenThePipes00]

I have never heard of that in any sport with a salary cap, so probably not possible.... even if it was, how much crap would they take for agreeing to pay a guy on ANOTHER TEAM after all the financial issues they have had? If they got a great player back MAYBE they could get away with it, but they are not going to get much regardless of the deal, so that would be a PR disaster.

Th funniest part about all this is we are probably more worried about it than Regier and RUff are. odds are Noronen will get moved for something that will have no impact on the current lineup ... so we are agonizing over something that will not remove a guy nor add a guy to the lineup ....might as well argue over the team bus' route to the airport.

[Eleven]

...might as well argue over the team bus' route to the airport.

If they don't take the 33, then Regier and Ruff should be fired immediately. I'm sick of this team taking the wrong route to the airport. WHEN WILL IT END?!

[DrunkenSabre]

interesting post, good point. Biron has skill to be a good goalie, on a good team. his had a poor defense and a streaky offense. i agree with your points though.

 

as far as Biron or noronen being a backup? neither. their both starters. they'd go too rusty to be backups effectivly. too much history for them both in this team, i think they should both go.

[Saber61]

I disagree. Miller proved himself last year in Rochester, and won the job in camp. Why go with Biron who has had 3 years to prove himself and couldn't do it?

 

Even though Miller had a rough night last night, I would give him the start Monday. Show him the team has confidence in him.

yea i think biron was always of the impression that there would be no one coming up to challenge him for a job... he knew they weren't gonna trade for a goalie and he probably realised that noronen was sub par compared to him and that miller was years away from being in the nhl... so marty laid back and played soft... now its go time and i think he's eager to prove what he can do... but i still think he's gonna be soft...