The Sabres should be drafting a Goalie

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

None of you guys wanting a goalie every year are the same guys wanting the Sabres to stop drafting college players are you?

You know Portillo skipped town in part because there were 2 other young goalies in the system.

Also, you’re not planning on signing all these guys right? Where are you going to develop them if you do?

Personally want a goalie at least 3 of every 5 years and typically 3 of every 4.  

Am fine with drafting college players provided they are the best available at their slot and that they aren't being chosen because the GM has a bias against other sources of prospects.

But you know they don't sign all their skater prospects, too, right?  Especially for the skaters drafted beyond the 3rd round, the only time most of them will ever get to wear the NHL team's sweater is when they're introduced to the media or during the team's prospects camp.

San Jose used excess goalie prospects to keep their competitive window open for a very long time.  Florida won game three in OT a few nights ago courtesy of what they got for a 1st rounder last year and a goaltending prospect they'd selected in the 7th round recently.  How many other prospects drafted in the 7th round would've been a key piece of landing that guy?

Goalies also can be loaned out to other franchises if you have too many in your own organization.  From Kolzig through to Binnington, teams find places for guys they need to get playing time for.

Drafting a lot of guys has pros and cons just like anything else, but personally don't believe you can ever truly have too many A grade goalie prospects, just like you can't have too many grade A D prospects nor too many grade A Center prospects.

[Taro T]

And unless you really are high on a particular prospect that slipped to the 3rd round, if no Russian goalies have been taken by the time you're on the clock, grab the best 1 that's there.

Russia seems to be a goalie factory lately.

[Thorner]

BPA 

[ShadowOnTheDoor]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

Leinonen has to be one of the most quickly dismissed or forgotten 2nd-rounders in a long time.

He was the first goalie taken overall last year, and the highest drafted Sabre goalie in 25 years.

We'll see in 5-7 years if he's as bad as everyone thinks.

Yes, a goalie would be nice, but it better not be early.

5-7 years... Oy Vey... The single most confounding theory in hockey... Levi said it best - stop the puck...

[Curt]

8 hours ago, ddaryl said:

I don't view UPL or Cromrie as in development, the rest are barely NHL worthy, so really we only have one young net minder in Leinonen

UPL, Levi, and Leinonen.  UPL just turned 24 in March.  He is definitely still a young developing goalie.  Levi and Leinonen are definitely too.

[GoPuckYourself]

I looked into some of these guys but the G position is just weird, some of these guys with low save % will turn out to be stars and some of the potential stars will be busts, has to be the hardest position to guage. 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/draft-center/2023?position=g

[JohninMinn.]

Levi will be the workhorse. Whoever backs him up is fine with me.

[ddaryl]

10 hours ago, Curt said:

UPL, Levi, and Leinonen.  UPL just turned 24 in March.  He is definitely still a young developing goalie.  Levi and Leinonen are definitely too.

I still believe what we see is what we get with UPL.. He is not going to get much, if any better, but that's my opinion based on seeing him being incosistent year after year.

Levi is entrenched as the future, but behind him and the near future there is nothing to get excited about... Leinonen is a wildcard but really hasn't proven he'll be ready for the NHL anytime soon, and after that we got nothing. 

The way I feel is I would like to see a few drafted G's placed throughout the Sabres system and let the cream rise to the top. 

 

 

8 hours ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I looked into some of these guys but the G position is just weird, some of these guys with low save % will turn out to be stars and some of the potential stars will be busts, has to be the hardest position to guage. 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/draft-center/2023?position=g

 

I agree which is why I think you want to have multiple young drafted G's in the system as I mentioned in my reply to Curt

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

. 

The way I feel is I would like to see a few drafted G's placed throughout the Sabres system and let the cream rise to the top. 
 

So kind of like last year, when we had 4 goalie prospects (UPL, Portillo, Levi and Leinonen) and we watched Levi rise to the top?

Taro cited the Sharks as a team with a history of having excess goalies, so I looked them up. They’ve drafted 16 since the year 2000. 

Just 2 of them have played more than 15 NHL games. Twelve have played no NHL games at all. None of them played a significant role for the Sharks.

The thing with goalies is you want “the guy” you want a backup and you want a “potential guy” in the system.

The key though is finding the guy. If you don’t have him you need to be spending a lot of time and resources chasing him, like the Sabres have in recent years with Lehner, Ullmark, Johansson, Luukkonnen, Portillo, Levi and Leinonen.

Once you get the guy though, the pressure is off because the push for other 2 to be more than they are is more of a want than need.

Edited May 12, 2023 by dudacek

[steveoath]

I'm really looking the sound of Trey Augustine from the NTDP. Seems cut from similar cloth to Levi.

[dudacek]

Athletic's Montreal writer does a nice dive into the process of finding goalies this morning.

https://theathletic.com/4510285/2023/05/11/montreal-canadiens-goalie-of-the-future/

He was looking at the period of 2011 to 2017 because goalies picked after 2017 are, by and large stil developing.

The Sabres took 5 goalies in those 7 drafts, pretty much in line with what the thread recommends.

Two teams took 8, one took 2. 16 - half the league - took 3 or 4.

The only conclusion I can gather from the article is that there's no magic formula for finding them, it usually takes years to determine whether you did, and when they finally arrive, it's more often than not on another team.

Edited May 12, 2023 by dudacek

[Night Train]

Keep drafting. Portillo was so slow in his reaction and lacked movement skills. UPL is not to be trusted at all. Might take one last look at Comrie in camp but I'd explore a vet insurance policy.  Keep drafting.

[ddaryl]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Athletic's Montreal writer does a nice dive into the process of finding goalies this morning.

https://theathletic.com/4510285/2023/05/11/montreal-canadiens-goalie-of-the-future/

He was looking at the period of 2011 to 2017 because goalies picked after 2017 are, by and large stil developing.

The Sabres took 5 goalies in those 7 drafts, pretty much in line with what the thread recommends.

Two teams took 8, one took 2. 16 - half the league - took 3 or 4.

The only conclusion I can gather from the article is that there's no magic formula for finding them, it usually takes years to determine whether you did, and when they finally arrive, it's more often than not on another team.

got to keep the pipeline full till you find them, but when you do the path is paved with gold.

The question is outside of Leinonen we pretty much know what we have in the system


Just for interest Here are the G's we drafted since 2000. 

The Bolded are the ones who actually played NHL games

5 straight years we drafted Gs from 2002 to 2007 with only one recognizeable name. Not being able retain Ullmark is the biggest issue for the Sabres today. Since 2011 We seemed to be drafting Gs who do make it to the NHL.

Yr.    Rd.   Name
2000 4   Ghyslain Rousseau Baie-Comeau Drakkar [QMJHL]

2002 4   Marty Magers Omaha Lancers [USHL]

2003 8   Jeff Weber Plymouth Whalers [OHL]

2004 5   Michal Valent Martin Jr. (Slovakia)

2005 6   Adam Dennis London Knights [OHL]

2006 2   Jhonas Enroth Sodertalje SK [SEL]

2007 5  Bradley Eidsness Okotoks Oilers [AJHL]

2009 6  Connor Knapp Miami University (Ohio) [CCHA]

2011 6   Nathan Lieuwen Kootenay Ice [WHL]  (played in Rochester but only played in 7 games for Buffalo

2012 6   Linus Ullmark MoDo Jr. [Swe-Jr]

2013 5   Cal Petersen Waterloo Black Hawks [USHL]

2014 3   Jonas Johansson Brynas (Sweden Jrs.)

2017 2   Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen HPK [Finland-Jr]

2019 3   Erik Portillo Frolunda [Sweden Jrs.]

2022 2   Topias Leinonen Jyp (Finland Jr.)

 

[ddaryl]

59 minutes ago, steveoath said:

I'm really looking the sound of Trey Augustine from the NTDP. Seems cut from similar cloth to Levi.

https://www.lines.com/nhl/drafts/player/kenneth-trey-augustine-39822

thought you might find this interesting

Quote

NHL 2023 MOCK DRAFT

Projection round 3 Overall 86

Buffalo Sabres

 

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

The question is outside of Leinonen we pretty much know what we have in the system

 

I don't know if I agree.

UPL just turned 24 and has played 46 NHL games. Levi has played 7 and is 21.

Ullmark, Husso, Markstrom, Grubauer, Merzlikins, Lehner, Binnington (I could go on): did we know what those guys were at those points in their careers?

[Thorner]

10 hours ago, JohninMinn. said:

Levi will be the workhorse. Whoever backs him up is fine with me.

Even the Bruins, rostering Vezina nominee Ullmark, with his ridiculous stats, playing behind a sick team that put up a historical regular season *heavily* relied upon their G backup, Swayman, (who played in *45 percent* of the games this season) and ran into trouble trying to start simply Ullmark in the playoffs. 

The Buffalo Sabres also need a very good backup, workhorse Levi or not 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

So kind of like last year, when we had 4 goalie prospects (UPL, Portillo, Levi and Leinonen) and we watched Levi rise to the top?

Taro cited the Sharks as a team with a history of having excess goalies, so I looked them up. They’ve drafted 16 since the year 2000. 

Just 2 of them have played more than 15 NHL games. Twelve have played no NHL games at all. None of them played a significant role for the Sharks.

The thing with goalies is you want “the guy” you want a backup and you want a “potential guy” in the system.

The key though is finding the guy. If you don’t have him you need to be spending a lot of time and resources chasing him, like the Sabres have in recent years with Lehner, Ullmark, Johansson, Luukkonnen, Portillo, Levi and Leinonen.

Once you get the guy though, the pressure is off because the push for other 2 to be more than they are is more of a want than need.

I’d argue a good backup is a need

[DarthEbriate]

30 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

The Bolded are the ones who actually played NHL games

Yr.    Rd.   Name

2009 6  Connor Knapp Miami University (Ohio) [CCHA]

Gotta bold Knapp. Tank on!

[SabresBillsFan]

Vegas picks a goalie every draft. 

[Thorner]

Keep in mind it’s largely a 2 goalie league. It’s not a qb/backup qb dynamic. Forecasted plans from the GM should assume reliance on both position slots 

[ddaryl]

35 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don't know if I agree.

UPL just turned 24 and has played 46 NHL games. Levi has played 7 and is 21.

Ullmark, Husso, Markstrom, Grubauer, Merzlikins, Lehner, Binnington (I could go on): did we know what those guys were at those points in their careers?

 

We don't know for sure but I think we have an idea. His metal lapses don't seem fixable to me. I just think this is part of his game he will never be able to fully shake. Don't want that trait showing up when we're pushing SC runs

But that is all personal opinon, hopefully he proves me wrong

[Night Train]

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Keep in mind it’s largely a 2 goalie league. It’s not a qb/backup qb dynamic. Forecasted plans from the GM should assume reliance on both position slots 

Absolutely. NHL stacks their games and rarely allows rosters to refresh. $$$ is the ruin of all. Too many games.

[French Collection]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Even the Bruins, rostering Vezina nominee Ullmark, with his ridiculous stats, playing behind a sick team that put up a historical regular season *heavily* relied upon their G backup, Swayman, (who played in *45 percent* of the games this season) and ran into trouble trying to start simply Ullmark in the playoffs. 

The Buffalo Sabres also need a very good backup, workhorse Levi or not 

Heaven forbid you have THE GUY and he gets hurt for a lengthy stretch of games. You need a backup that can hold his own and a guy in Rochester who can back up a few games.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Night Train said:

Absolutely. NHL stacks their games and rarely allows rosters to refresh. $$$ is the ruin of all. Too many games.

 

[inkman]

23 hours ago, Zamboni said:

I would even push it to every other year unless a goalie slips in the draft that is too good to pass up in the “off year”. Maybe it’s just me, but I think the draft a goalie every year no matter what mindset, is slight overkill. 

I agree but unless they trade or sign some guys, they need to keep drafting them until they have 4 guys capable of playing NHL games for them in Buffalo and Rochester.  Once they reach that threshold, every other year seems reasonable.