Columbia Research Paper Looks at Fighting/PIM and Mortality Rates

[bob_sauve28]

I really hate it when Dylan Cozens fights. No one should be punching that kid. 

[Zamboni]

19 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Correlation does not equal causation. Guys whose only job is to beat the snot out of opposing players likely have a much different mentality or view on life than finesse players and I highly doubt this is limited to the hockey rink.

Fun fact. Rob Ray did not want to be a fighter or goon when he reached the NHL. But because his lack of “skill” compared to his peers, he found a way to get a call up to the Sabres and stick. So he did not by nature have that mentality or view on life when he was drafted by the Sabres. Once he made the Amerks, that’s how he found his niche and a way to stay a pro hockey player and eventually get called up by the Sabres. I’m sure he’s not the only example of someone who did not want to fight, but there was no other way to stay a pro hockey player.

[Archie Lee]

On 5/11/2023 at 6:46 AM, JohnC said:

Fighters do a lot of clutching and grabbing when they are engaged in a matchup. But they also throw punches to the head. You don't have to do a detailed statistical analysis to determine that it increases head injuries. And you don't need to have a medical background to recognize that over time the repeated hitting to the head could have serious health repercussions. 

More often than not fights between players from opposing teams agree in advance to go at it.  In reality, they are mostly pre-staged fights for a variety of reasons. It makes no sense to me that on one hand there is a lot of pontificating about player safety, and then on the other hand an activity is allowed that does jeopardize player's safety. 

Fighting is not allowed in the college game. Anyone who has watched college games recognizes that it is a physical game. No fighting is allowed in Olympic hockey. Yet, it is compelling to watch.

In one of Spellman's first game as a Sabre he got in a fight to demonstrate his toughness to his new teammates. The opposing fighter hit him in the head with a gruesome head shot. It was a quick dispatch. Spellman got close to being knocked out and went down. He's lucky that his season and his career were not ended in one of his first games with his new team. For what? To demonstrate that how tough he was?

Football is very physical. Fighting is not allowed. Basketball is a very physical sport. Fighting is not allowed. Fighting in the NHL has dramatically declined compared to the era before. It's time to stop with this archaic remnant of this game. You don't need fighting in this tough sport. 

I agree with this.  It is long past time to remove fighting and predatory body checks from hockey. 

Fighting is simply not needed.  The Sabres just finished a very entertaining year of hockey and there were 6-7 fights all season.  I won't lie, fights lift me out of my seat.  But I will easily give up those brief and few moments of excitement if it means that I don't need to see a player splayed out on the ice with his brain scrambled.  I don't want one of the Sabres' young players careers to end prematurely or to read 15 years from now about how they are struggling with pain and cognitive dysfunction because of too many concussions.

The same goes for predatory hitting.  The reality is that predatory hits are there for the taking multiple times a game and most players pass on the opportunity to inflict injury on the opposition.  They pass on the opportunity because the hit might take them out of position defensively or it might result in them being penalized or they know they are risking injury to themselves, and, in many cases, they have respect for their opposition and don't want to risk causing serious injury to another player. As hits like this become more rare, players become less aware of the threat and thus are more likely to expose themselves to a predatory hit. There, unfortunately, are a handful of players remaining in the league (the Trouba, Gudas, Cernak types) who have no regard or respect for the well-being of their opponents. 

The game is dangerous enough.  The additional thrills that come with the occasional fight or predatory hit are simply no longer worth the long-term negative outcomes on player health. 

[Stoner]

On 5/12/2023 at 9:18 AM, Zamboni said:

Fun fact. Rob Ray did not want to be a fighter or goon when he reached the NHL. But because his lack of “skill” compared to his peers, he found a way to get a call up to the Sabres and stick. So he did not by nature have that mentality or view on life when he was drafted by the Sabres. Once he made the Amerks, that’s how he found his niche and a way to stay a pro hockey player and eventually get called up by the Sabres. I’m sure he’s not the only example of someone who did not want to fight, but there was no other way to stay a pro hockey player.

I knew that. It remains incredibly sad to me.

[JohnC]

On 5/12/2023 at 9:22 AM, Archie Lee said:

I agree with this.  It is long past time to remove fighting and predatory body checks from hockey. 

Fighting is simply not needed.  The Sabres just finished a very entertaining year of hockey and there were 6-7 fights all season.  I won't lie, fights lift me out of my seat.  But I will easily give up those brief and few moments of excitement if it means that I don't need to see a player splayed out on the ice with his brain scrambled.  I don't want one of the Sabres' young players careers to end prematurely or to read 15 years from now about how they are struggling with pain and cognitive dysfunction because of too many concussions.

The same goes for predatory hitting.  The reality is that predatory hits are there for the taking multiple times a game and most players pass on the opportunity to inflict injury on the opposition.  They pass on the opportunity because the hit might take them out of position defensively or it might result in them being penalized or they know they are risking injury to themselves, and, in many cases, they have respect for their opposition and don't want to risk causing serious injury to another player. As hits like this become more rare, players become less aware of the threat and thus are more likely to expose themselves to a predatory hit. There, unfortunately, are a handful of players remaining in the league (the Trouba, Gudas, Cernak types) who have no regard or respect for the well-being of their opponents. 

The game is dangerous enough.  The additional thrills that come with the occasional fight or predatory hit are simply no longer worth the long-term negative outcomes on player health. 

The league has an office of player safety that reviews so called "predatory hits". Even if the referee misses the call in the game, the league has the ability to review the play after the game, Then, it will make a ruling on the appropriate punishment if required. The health risk associated from fighting and reckless hitting is not so much about incidents as it is the accumulation of them and the aftereffects post career. It's a tough sport with inherent risks, as are all sports. However, it doesn't need to be a reckless sport.

[MattPie]

On 5/12/2023 at 9:18 AM, Zamboni said:

Fun fact. Rob Ray did not want to be a fighter or goon when he reached the NHL. But because his lack of “skill” compared to his peers, he found a way to get a call up to the Sabres and stick. So he did not by nature have that mentality or view on life when he was drafted by the Sabres. Once he made the Amerks, that’s how he found his niche and a way to stay a pro hockey player and eventually get called up by the Sabres. I’m sure he’s not the only example of someone who did not want to fight, but there was no other way to stay a pro hockey player.

From what I've seen, NHL All-Star John Scott falls into the same category. Undrafted, played through College (Mechanical Engineering) caught on for a bit in the AHL and then NHL, and made a career out of it. Not because of his playing ability. His autobiography is titled "A Guy Like Me: Fighting to Make the Cut". Georges Laraque seems like a similar personality.

There are probably more enforcers out there that this describes than you'd think. Now, if we want to talk about "rats", the story may be different.

[shrader]

4 hours ago, MattPie said:

From what I've seen, NHL All-Star John Scott falls into the same category. Undrafted, played through College (Mechanical Engineering) caught on for a bit in the AHL and then NHL, and made a career out of it. Not because of his playing ability. His autobiography is titled "A Guy Like Me: Fighting to Make the Cut". Georges Laraque seems like a similar personality.

There are probably more enforcers out there that this describes than you'd think. Now, if we want to talk about "rats", the story may be different.

It probably helped that Scott was 8 feet tall.