What role does Krebs fit into next season?

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

It would be interesting to get inside Krebs head regarding this.  He had to surmise that with Tage and Cozens he’s a 3rd line center at best.  Add in the Mitts wildcard and…..

You have to know that bottom 6 isn’t what he aspired to.  Does he have the confidence to go somewhere else and beat someone else for a top 6 role, or does he like the situation here and be happy with a needed role on a team that appears headed upward?

Personally, I think if he chases a top 6 role he’ll be disappointed.

True.  He doesn't dream of being a 3rd/4th liner.  But he doesn't become a UFA for 5 more years.  A lot of things can change in that time frame.  He can have a Mittelstadt like jump in his play at some point, or maybe he just stagnates.  A key piece of the what we all perceive as the Sabres core may himself stagnate or may have a club desperate to get him and make an offer to Adams that he simply can't refuse.

He seems happy here and is growing into an NHLer.  Expect him to have a role similar to his current one next year but with more PK & PP duty (like he was getting towards the very end) and whether he is centering the 4th line or the 3rd line or possibly moving to 3rd line winger will be a function of what other moves happen this summer.  What to do with him LT doesn't need to be determined this off-season nor even next.  Expect his next contract is a bridge while he and the club find out what he will become.

[JohnC]

37 minutes ago, Taro T said:

True.  He doesn't dream of being a 3rd/4th liner.  But he doesn't become a UFA for 5 more years.  A lot of things can change in that time frame.  He can have a Mittelstadt like jump in his play at some point, or maybe he just stagnates.  A key piece of the what we all perceive as the Sabres core may himself stagnate or may have a club desperate to get him and make an offer to Adams that he simply can't refuse.

He seems happy here and is growing into an NHLer.  Expect him to have a role similar to his current one next year but with more PK & PP duty (like he was getting towards the very end) and whether he is centering the 4th line or the 3rd line or possibly moving to 3rd line winger will be a function of what other moves happen this summer.  What to do with him LT doesn't need to be determined this off-season nor even next.  Expect his next contract is a bridge while he and the club find out what he will become.

As our talent base increases, you can see the value of players having an ability to play a variety of roles. He, like Mitts, has the versatility to move up and down the lines, and play center and forward when needed. Injuries happen. But as demonstrated by Mitts moving up from a third line wing to the first line as a center, there wasn't much of a drop off, if any, of the production on our #1 line. As you point out, Krebs played center on a mostly defensive line, but he also has the ability to play on our specialty units and move up to higher lines if the need arises. Compared to previous years, where the dearth of talent on the roster had players placed on higher lines or pairings than their talent level would indicate. That's less true now. 

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

As our talent base increases, you can see the value of players having an ability to play a variety of roles. He, like Mitts, has the versatility to move up and down the lines, and play center and forward when needed. Injuries happen. But as demonstrated by Mitts moving up from a third line wing to the first line as a center, there wasn't much of a drop off, if any, of the production on our #1 line. As you point out, Krebs played center on a mostly defensive line, but he also has the ability to play on our specialty units and move up to higher lines if the need arises. Compared to previous years, where the dearth of talent on the roster had players placed on higher lines or pairings than their talent level would indicate. That's less true now. 

Agree with most of what you've said and the bolded might be true or more accurately might become true.  But for right now, we don't know that he can fill in anywhere but 4C & 3C.  (Personally expect he'll be able to fill in higher, and still hold a VERY small amount of hope that he can become a Marchand-lite for the Sabres; but Marchand was putting up twice as many points as Krebs put up at similar ages and IIRC similar bottom 6 usage (though obviously as a W rather than a C.)

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, Taro T said:

Agree with most of what you've said and the bolded might be true or more accurately might become true.  But for right now, we don't know that he can fill in anywhere but 4C & 3C.  (Personally expect he'll be able to fill in higher, and still hold a VERY small amount of hope that he can become a Marchand-lite for the Sabres; but Marchand was putting up twice as many points as Krebs put up at similar ages and IIRC similar bottom 6 usage (though obviously as a W rather than a C.)

I agree with everything you said. We are in accord that on this team Krebs projects to be a #4 &3C. (As you stated.) But if injuries happened and he is called upon to move up to a #2C slot on a temporary basis, he should be able to handle that role on a short-term basis without a major diminishment of the line he has moved up to. 

At the time when Granato moved Krebs to the Okposo/Girgs line I thought it was an odd move. It turned out to be a brilliant move. It transformed his floating junior hockey style game to a NHL style of play that required more discipline and a tighter style of play. As with Mitts and Tage, I see Krebs getting better as he physically matures.

There is much discussion here about internal improvement being the engine that will move this team up the ranks. It's going to be fun following players like Krebs, Power, Quinn, JJ etc and watching their growth as NHL players.  

[Drag0nDan]

On 4/17/2023 at 5:06 PM, PerreaultForever said:

But who's to say Cozens won't be our #1 center next year and so a line with Thompson Cozens would be our #1 line. 

I honestly don't think a non playoff team should consider ANY line or pairing as a guarantee for the next season. Anything is possible. 

Not wrong there - I just think Thompson is still growing as a center and wouldn't want to move him from his position to accommodate mittelstadt.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

Krebs was only 21 to start last season.  He played 74 games had 26 pts.

Thompson at 21 - 65 games 12 pts

Casey at 21 - 31g 9 pts

Cozens at 21 - 81g 68 pts

Skinner at 21 - 71g 54 pts

Tuch at 21 - 78g 37 pts

Are you noticing a trend?  I’m not either.  Player development is anything but linear.  Given Krebs’ U18/U20 background, I think some patience is in order with him.  

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

Not wrong there - I just think Thompson is still growing as a center and wouldn't want to move him from his position to accommodate mittelstadt.  

That might not be the way to look at it though. It's not "accommodating" Mitts it would be looking at what we have and constructing lines that have players that fit together and compliment each other so that the line, as a whole, has maximum effectiveness. Sniper-Playmaker-Power Forward. Cozens moves the puck and gets it onto Thompson's stick who takes the shot while Greenway moves in front to screen the goalie. That was perhaps the idea. 

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Krebs was only 21 to start last season.  He played 74 games had 26 pts.

Thompson at 21 - 65 games 12 pts

Casey at 21 - 31g 9 pts

Cozens at 21 - 81g 68 pts

Skinner at 21 - 71g 54 pts

Tuch at 21 - 78g 37 pts

Are you noticing a trend?  I’m not either.  Player development is anything but linear.  Given Krebs’ U18/U20 background, I think some patience is in order with him.  

Who you play with matters, how you are used matters, the player's size and physicality matters. Injuries set some back as well (eg. Mitts). I think Krebs is compared to Cozens since they came up together as leaders on the Canadian Junior team. Cozens being way above Krebs makes Krebs look like something less. 

In general the rule still holds. At 21 is when top players usually break out. Thompson's development path was kind of a weird outlier. Probably due to his size and growing into his body and then finding his niche. Mitts on the other hand had to grow physically and mentally and also overcome injuries. Tuch just loves being a Sabre.  

[Flashsabre]

Doug Gilmour was a high end junior player. When he got to St. Louis they asked him to become a checker. After a few years he started to breakout as a real two way threat.

When you take young players who are used to being offensive dynamos and cast them in different roles it takes time for them to adjust.

The Sabres need to figure out what they want from Krebs. Do they want him to be a checker? Do they want him to be the 3rd line centre and play with some more offensive wingers?

Tage and Cozens breaking out as the top 2 centres has changed up the dynamics for some of the other young guys. Mitts coming on down the stretch as a centre also plays into it. Then you have Savoie knocking on the door.

I like Krebs as a young checking centre. But commit to it and give him the tools to succeed. Have Peca work with him on the details of the role.

[Taro T]

23 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Doug Gilmour was a high end junior player. When he got to St. Louis they asked him to become a checker. After a few years he started to breakout as a real two way threat.

When you take young players who are used to being offensive dynamos and cast them in different roles it takes time for them to adjust.

The Sabres need to figure out what they want from Krebs. Do they want him to be a checker? Do they want him to be the 3rd line centre and play with some more offensive wingers?

Tage and Cozens breaking out as the top 2 centres has changed up the dynamics for some of the other young guys. Mitts coming on down the stretch as a centre also plays into it. Then you have Savoie knocking on the door.

I like Krebs as a young checking centre. But commit to it and give him the tools to succeed. Have Peca work with him on the details of the role.

Would love to see Krebs become a Gilmour.  But holy cow is that a huge ask of the kid.  He does seem to have the body type and the temperament.  But Gilmour was a special player and was scoring as just a rookie and a sophomore the way we'd probably be very happy with Krebs if he could get to that consistently.  (Not even going anywhere near the PGP+ player Dougie was in his heyday.)

Edited April 19, 2023 by Taro T

[PerreaultForever]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would love to see Krebs become a Gilmour.  But holy cow is that a huge ask of the kid.  He does seem to have the body type and the temperament.  But Gilmour was a special player and was scoring as just a rookie and a sophomore the way we'd probably be very happy with Krebs if he could get to that consistently.  (Not even going anywhere near the PGP+ player Dougie was in his heyday.)

I'd be happy if Krebs became Gilmour-like, as long as he stays away from the underage girls. 

[Flashsabre]

I don’t need him to become Gilmour. I was just trying to compare offensive junior players being cast in different pro roles. My thing was Krebs didn’t really have a defined role. Tell him “We want you to be our checker. Like Cirelli in TB. Give him a defined role and let him sink his teeth into it. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Would love to see Krebs become a Gilmour.  But holy cow is that a huge ask of the kid.  He does seem to have the body type and the temperament.  But Gilmour was a special player and was scoring as just a rookie and a sophomore the way we'd probably be very happy with Krebs if he could get to that consistently.  (Not even going anywhere near the PGP+ player Dougie was in his heyday.)

The Krebs/Gilmour comparison crossed my mind in the earlier discussion.

I stayed away from posting it because people see “like” and read “as good as” but there are similarities their games, if not in ability.

I like @Flashsabre’s Cirelli comparison. It would be a nice parallel in role and stature that I could see him hit as early as next year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[French Collection]

He is very capable of becoming a Cirelli.

As I said before, Cirelli’s best season is 44 points, very achievable for Peyton.

His strong defensive game is what his coach uses to match up with others while still being a scoring threat.

He also gets some PP time.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I don’t need him to become Gilmour. I was just trying to compare offensive junior players being cast in different pro roles. My thing was Krebs didn’t really have a defined role. Tell him “We want you to be our checker. Like Cirelli in TB. Give him a defined role and let him sink his teeth into it. 

I don't think he will become Cirelli. If he still improves however he might be comparable to Gourde eventually. One can hope. 

[Night Train]

 I did agree with Paul Hamilton a couple months back when he wondered if Krebs could score a lot more if not always put on checking lines. Kills a lot of penalties. Always hustles. I think he could score more if given talented linemates with scoring ability. Regardless, he's a keeper for sure. Stands up to the bullies. Fearless in the corners. Great passer.  Need more of his ilk. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Post press conference 2023/24 Buffalo Sabres

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Savoie Mitts Greenway

Rousek Krebs KO (Jost or Z)

Dahlin Samuelsson

Power ?????

Jokiharju Lyubuskin (Stillman)

Levi UPL (Comrie to Roch)

After the press conferences, I’m expecting one notable acquisition and that is a single D.  This team won’t be taking the next step next season under this plan unless Levi is spectacular. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Post press conference 2023/24 Buffalo Sabres

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Savoie Mitts Greenway

Rousek Krebs KO (Jost or Z)

Dahlin Samuelsson

Power ?????

Jokiharju Lyubuskin (Stillman)

Levi UPL (Comrie to Roch)

After the press conferences, I’m expecting one notable acquisition and that is a single D.  This team won’t be taking the next step next season under this plan unless Levi is spectacular. 

This is almost the exact lineup I posted 2 last week. 

What step is that? Making the playoffs? 

On 4/15/2023 at 4:52 PM, LGR4GM said:

 

Skinner-Tage-Tuch

JJP-Cozens-Quinn

Savoie-Mitts-Greenway

Jost-Krebs-Rousek

Zemgus, Olofsson with Kulich first callup.

That's 14 forwards. Leaves room for 7 defenders and 2 goalies to round out the 23 man roster. 

 

 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Post press conference 2023/24 Buffalo Sabres

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Savoie Mitts Greenway

Rousek Krebs KO (Jost or Z)

Dahlin Samuelsson

Power ?????

Jokiharju Lyubuskin (Stillman)

Levi UPL (Comrie to Roch)

After the press conferences, I’m expecting one notable acquisition and that is a single D.  This team won’t be taking the next step next season under this plan unless Levi is spectacular. 

I'm more upbeat about next season if your projection materializes. The lineup that you posted is capable of making the next step. If a single defenseman is brought in who is a #4 caliber of player, that would have a positive cascading affect for the unit. If two #5s were brought in, it would also reinforce the unit. 

However, I strongly disagree with you that much is dependent on Levi is spectacular. I don't see that as a requirement for this team to move up the ranks. What I want is for Levi to be consistently good and the backups to be solid. In my view, if the Sabres would have that caliber of netminding all season long, the Sabres would have earned close to eight to ten more points in the standings. 

The Sabres were not that far off from being a playoff team this season. Next season, mostly due to internal improvement and some additions to the blueline, this team should have their playoff position secured sooner and not be in such a precariously playoff position that it was in this season. You need to be more upbeat. Your pessimism is self-generated. Based on what has already happened, it shouldn't be the case. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm more upbeat about next season if your projection materializes. The lineup that you posted is capable of making the next step. If a single defenseman is brought in who is a #4 caliber of player, that would have a positive cascading affect for the unit. If two #5s were brought in, it would also reinforce the unit. 

However, I strongly disagree with you that much is dependent on Levi is spectacular. I don't see that as a requirement for this team to move up the ranks. What I want is for Levi to be consistently good and the backups to be solid. In my view, if the Sabres would have that caliber of netminding all season long, the Sabres would have earned close to eight to ten more points in the standings. 

The Sabres were not that far off from being a playoff team this season. Next season, mostly due to internal improvement and some additions to the blueline, this team should have their playoff position secured sooner and not be in such a precariously playoff position that it was in this season. You need to be more upbeat. Your pessimism is self-generated. Based on what has already happened, it shouldn't be the case. 

The next step isn't slipping into the playoffs with 95 points.  We are there already.  The next step is being a solid playoff team.  That means competing with the TB and Torontos of the world.  It means having a reasonable chance of winning a playoff series or two.  Unless the D he acquires is significantly better than Jokiharju, you will again be asking a lot of your goaltenders.  Right now we were the 3rd highest-scoring team in the NHL and only high-scoring team in the league not to make the playoffs.  We gave up nearly 300 goals this season.  That number has to decrease by at least 30 goals next season for us to be up there with Toronto and TB.  Adding 1 quality defender won't be enough to accomplish that.  The advanced stats say UPL regressed this past season.  That means that if he and Levi are the goalies next season Levi is going to have to be excellent or better and start 50 games if we are to achieve a top 3 Atlantic finish.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The next step isn't slipping into the playoffs with 95 points.  We are there already.  The next step is being a solid playoff team.  That means competing with the TB and Torontos of the world.  It means having a reasonable chance of winning a playoff series or two.  Unless the D he acquires is significantly better than Jokiharju, you will again be asking a lot of your goaltenders.  Right now we were the 3rd highest-scoring team in the NHL and only high-scoring team in the league not to make the playoffs.  We gave up nearly 300 goals this season.  That number has to decrease by at least 30 goals next season for us to be up there with Toronto and TB.  Adding 1 quality defender won't be enough to accomplish that.  The advanced stats say UPL regressed this past season.  That means that if he and Levi are the goalies next season Levi is going to have to be excellent or better and start 50 games if we are to achieve a top 3 Atlantic finish.

The issue regarding the lacking defensive play is also influenced by the defensive play of our forwards. In the last dozen to fifteen games, there was a noticeable recognition that the lines had to play a more responsible two-way style of hockey. And they did play that tighter brand of hockey. Again, what will be the driving force for improvement will be internal improvement. I'm counting on that more than outside help. Although, that doesn't mean that I don't want to see additions. 

[Thorner]

20 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The next step isn't slipping into the playoffs with 95 points.  We are there already.  The next step is being a solid playoff team.  That means competing with the TB and Torontos of the world.  It means having a reasonable chance of winning a playoff series or two.  Unless the D he acquires is significantly better than Jokiharju, you will again be asking a lot of your goaltenders.  Right now we were the 3rd highest-scoring team in the NHL and only high-scoring team in the league not to make the playoffs.  We gave up nearly 300 goals this season.  That number has to decrease by at least 30 goals next season for us to be up there with Toronto and TB.  Adding 1 quality defender won't be enough to accomplish that.  The advanced stats say UPL regressed this past season.  That means that if he and Levi are the goalies next season Levi is going to have to be excellent or better and start 50 games if we are to achieve a top 3 Atlantic finish.

We can define the “next step” as whatever but is anyone really going to be disappointed if we tally 95 and squeak in next year? Not I. Sign me the eff up. It’ll have been 13 years. A good chunk of my total life span. If we have learned anything along the way it’s that we shouldn’t take entrance into that second season for granted. I could easily foresee a scenario where internal growth is offset by fewer career years next season.

Just get in. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Thorny

[...]

Just now, Thorny said:

We can define the “next step” as whatever but is anyone really going to be disappointed if we tally 95 and squeak in next year? Not I. Sign me the eff up. It’ll have been 13 years. A good chunk of my total life span. If we have learned anything along the way it’s that I don’t take entrance into that second season for granted. I could easily foresee a scenario where internal growth is offset by fewer career years next season.

Just get in. 

Depends on how we define "disappointment" here. Would I be happy we're in the playoffs. Sure. But doing so at only 95 points means we could have been in the playoffs this year and realizing that I would be retroactively disappointed. They need to be a 100+ point team to make this year not seem like a bunch of bumbling wrapped up in platitudes.

 

[Kristian]

On 4/16/2023 at 12:47 AM, Brawndo said:

Krebs has the second best defensive metrics of all the forwards. He also has known as a playmaker in the WHL and did very well in the AHL. If they are going to keep him on the fourth line I would like to see him with Zemgus and Pierre Engvall. 

Wouldn’t mind seeing him developed into a shutdown guy, with some offensive upside.

[Thorner]

20 minutes ago, ... said:

Depends on how we define "disappointment" here. Would I be happy we're in the playoffs. Sure. But doing so at only 95 points means we could have been in the playoffs this year and realizing that I would be retroactively disappointed. They need to be a 100+ point team to make this year not seem like a bunch of bumbling wrapped up in platitudes.

 

But what we do next season doesn’t have retroactive bearing on whether we could have made it, this season. Unless you mean like, “oh if all we were going to amount to is 95 points, we should have sold off a little more to get the job done last year.”? I suppose I understand that, I mean I’m disappointed we didn’t make it this season, too. But if we only amount to 95 points the idea we could have easily shifted to change our fortunes this season, with no regards to butterfly effect doesn’t really jive to me. I think personally I’d just see this season as the 16 point jump that facilitated a 4 point, makeable jumping distance for next season 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We can define the “next step” as whatever but is anyone really going to be disappointed if we tally 95 and squeak in next year? Not I. Sign me the eff up. It’ll have been 13 years. A good chunk of my total life span. If we have learned anything along the way it’s that we shouldn’t take entrance into that second season for granted. I could easily foresee a scenario where internal growth is offset by fewer career years next season.

Just get in. 

Yes, that will be a disappointment because it probably means that the defense and goaltending only improved marginally if at all.