What role does Krebs fit into next season?

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Depends on who (if anybody) we add in the off season. 

When I knocked Krebs a few weeks back a bunch of people told me all about his great vision, hockey IQ, passing ability and so forth so if all of that is true, he's your #3 center with Quinn and Peterka isn't he? 

Mitts is now Sabres #1 center (although arguably the top 2 lines are equal) and I really think they will try to keep the two top lines you saw at the end of the year as the season starting lines. That's Skinner-Mitts-Tuch and Thompson-Cozens-Greenway. Line 3 is Peterka-Krebs-Quinn and 4 if they re-sign is Girgensens-Jost-Okposo.  If Kulich, Rousek, or somebody else supplants a veteran players will bump up or down that line up as appropriate. 

That's what'll happen if he doesn't sign any FA forwards that is. But it might be the way it is. I suspect (fear?) that management may think, well, if we'd had Levi all year we'd be in the playoffs so we're good, just keep drafting and developing internally. 

This isn't going to be what happens. Tage won't be injured and Quinn and JJP aren't going to get demoted for Greenway. Quinn in particular, we should expect him to add 10g10a next season. 

I'm still amazed how virtually the entire board has amnesia that Tage Thompson was injured from the all star break on. You don't take your 90+ point, 45+ goal #1 center and move him to 2nd line wing because Mittelstadt played well for 2 weeks (yes he played well at others times this season).

Recency bias. 

[WhenWillItEnd66]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

This isn't going to be what happens. Tage won't be injured and Quinn and JJP aren't going to get demoted for Greenway. Quinn in particular, we should expect him to add 10g10a next season. 

I'm still amazed how virtually the entire board has amnesia that Tage Thompson was injured from the all star break on. You don't take your 90+ point, 45+ goal #1 center and move him to 2nd line wing because Mittelstadt played well for 2 weeks (yes he played well at others times this season).

Recency bias. 

Totally agree,  but we see how Casey works with 2 talented wingers. Maybe it is time to keep him off the 3rd line

[That Aud Smell]

I get the sense that the FO really likes Krebs and has plans for him as part of their “home grown” plan (even allowing that he was drafted elsewhere and did some growing there).

It’s another case of a guy with some high end pedigree playing in your bottom 6. That tends to portend good things - especially in May and June.

He’s embraced the role too. He just needs to take a few steps forward in 2023-2024.

[K-9]

He seems to have outgrown the kaiser but the ciabatta may be too much too soon.

[OrangeSeatVertigo]

Put 15 lbs of muscle on him (a half a dozen Sabres need this, btw) and give him decent linemates... then and only then can he be assessed.   The first item he can control, the second, not sure that will happen.   

He probably is an throw in, in a trade for a top D with a team short on centers.   Unfortunate, but whatever.   

[Quint]

I see Krebs and Jost showing significant scoring improvements next year (maybe together with Savoie?) along with Quinn and Peterka. These four have pedigree and are advancing rapidly in this atmosphere.

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

This isn't going to be what happens. Tage won't be injured and Quinn and JJP aren't going to get demoted for Greenway. Quinn in particular, we should expect him to add 10g10a next season. 

I'm still amazed how virtually the entire board has amnesia that Tage Thompson was injured from the all star break on. You don't take your 90+ point, 45+ goal #1 center and move him to 2nd line wing because Mittelstadt played well for 2 weeks (yes he played well at others times this season).

Recency bias. 

First off you have no idea what will happen. Nobody does. 

The two lines at the end of the year were based on line combinations not on skill level.  Sniper-Playmaker-Power Forward.  Both lines similar in terms of style and 1 or 2 being a false designation. Thompson wasn't "demoted", Granato was just trying to form 2 equally dangerous lines rather than one stacked line. Mitts elevated play allowed for this possibility. Has nothing to do with "recency bias". 

Sure, if Greenway isn't good enough in that power forward role he will be demoted. If Quinn gets better line combinations might change. Lots of things can happen. A player could be added. The idea Granato seems to believe in however is very apparent and not wrong. It is in fact the way you build effective lines. We finally are getting to a point where we have the talent and players to start doing this. If there's "development" projects/lines going on next year you can kiss another season goodbye. I do NOT think that will be the case. 

Again, nobody knows what will happen, but unless they add a big name free agent or make a big trade, I predict Thompson will be a winger next year and not a center. Likely on Cozen's line. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by PerreaultForever

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

First off you have no idea what will happen. Nobody does. 

The two lines at the end of the year were based on line combinations not on skill level.  Sniper-Playmaker-Power Forward.  Both lines similar in terms of style and 1 or 2 being a false designation. Thompson wasn't "demoted", Granato was just trying to form 2 equally dangerous lines rather than one stacked line. Mitts elevated play allowed for this possibility. Has nothing to do with "recency bias". 

Sure, if Greenway isn't good enough in that power forward role he will be demoted. If Quinn gets better line combinations might change. Lots of things can happen. A player could be added. The idea Granato seems to believe in however is very apparent and not wrong. It is in fact the way you build effective lines. We finally are getting to a point where we have the talent and players to start doing this. If there's "development" projects/lines going on next year you can kiss another season goodbye. I do NOT think that will be the case. 

Again, nobody knows what will happen, but unless they add a big name free agent or make a big trade, I predict Thompson will be a winger next year and not a center. Likely on Cozen's line. 

No chance in hell the coach who moved tage to center and literally unlocked his game is suddenly going to put him at wing all year because Mittelstadt exists. It's not happening. 

7 hours ago, Quint said:

I see Krebs and Jost showing significant scoring improvements next year (maybe together with Savoie?) along with Quinn and Peterka. These four have pedigree and are advancing rapidly in this atmosphere.

No Jost won't. Jost's pts per 60 hover right around 1.5 and he did 1.7 with Buffalo. That's who he is and will be. 

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

Totally agree,  but we see how Casey works with 2 talented wingers. Maybe it is time to keep him off the 3rd line

No, you just upgrade the 3rd line wingers. 

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, Stormcloudmember66 said:

Totally agree,  but we see how Casey works with 2 talented wingers. Maybe it is time to keep him off the 3rd line

Or, we can put two talented wingers on the 3rd line with Mitts.   Greenway will get a look there.  Savoie is a dynamic player that has a shot at third line next season.   Perhaps Casey can now elevate a young players game?   

I look at the role that Cozens had with both Quinn and Peterka.  

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Or, we can put two talented wingers on the 3rd line with Mitts.   Greenway will get a look there.  Savoie is a dynamic player that has a shot at third line next season.   Perhaps Casey can now elevate a young players game?   

I look at the role that Cozens had with both Quinn and Peterka.  

What's interesting in this is they should be trying to maximize Thompson's production as he certainly appears to be their best offensive player.  (THAT isn't that interesting.)  But what if Cozens is the 2nd best offensive player next year?  Does Granato move 1 of them to wing to put them on a line together or does he keep them both at C and give Tage the top wingers and Cozens the 2nd best wingers?

Still say that how they decide to use Greenway (keeping him in a bottom 6 role or bouncing him higher to forecheck and also keep opponents from teeing off on his linemates; or might he get put onto the 2nd line with the intention of inflicting punishment on the OTHER team's top line?) will be the key decision for how the other lines get deployed.

And, getting back to Krebs, expect him as either the 3C or 4C, but depending on what piece(s) get brought in at F, maybe HE slides to a wing?

In that other thread, the thought of Tom Wilson as a Sabre is quite intriguing as they could have a beast forechecker on all of the top 3 lines and the 4th line could still have Girgensons who isn't a beast but is quite good in that role too.

[...]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

The two lines at the end of the year were based on line combinations not on skill level.  Sniper-Playmaker-Power Forward.  Both lines similar in terms of style and 1 or 2 being a false designation. Thompson wasn't "demoted", Granato was just trying to form 2 equally dangerous lines rather than one stacked line. Mitts elevated play allowed for this possibility. Has nothing to do with "recency bias". 

Meatballs himself said he put Tage in a protected role because Tage was nursing lingering injuries. Tage told us what those injuries were a day or two ago. Meatballs was hoping Tage would produce more points and be less a deficit injured than a healthy VO. He was desperate to try and juice as many points from the last two weeks as possible.

That top line, while they all can play, is Skinner, Tage, and Tuch. 

Mitts provides other opportunities, primarily a guy you can move into the top 2 lines if need be who will not choke but, in fact, can contribute while there.

The top two Sabres lines we saw the majority of this past season are our top two lines going into next season - there is no doubting that.

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by ...

[PerreaultForever]

43 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No chance in hell the coach who moved tage to center and literally unlocked his game is suddenly going to put him at wing all year because Mittelstadt exists. It's not happening. 

Was Thompson bad playing on Cozen's wing? Did his play suddenly deteriorate? I don't think so. 

Do you think Thompson is such a poor hockey player he can only be effective at center? Is there magic in this positioning? 

I suppose this all hinges on you thinking Granato's move of Thompson to center was some genius coaching and not just a desperation move by a coach who had no centers. Doesn't matter, but there is a big "chance in hell" (is that what the locals call Buffalo these days? I mean there were always a lot of fires on the news as I remember but hell seems a little extreme)

[...]

20 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Still say that how they decide to use Greenway (keeping him in a bottom 6 role or bouncing him higher to forecheck and also keep opponents from teeing off on his linemates; or might he get put onto the 2nd line with the intention of inflicting punishment on the OTHER team's top line?) will be the key decision for how the other lines get deployed.

In that other thread, the thought of Tom Wilson as a Sabre is quite intriguing as they could have a beast forechecker on all of the top 3 lines and the 4th line could still have Girgensons who isn't a beast but is quite good in that role too.

I think Greenway and Player X will need to prove they're ready to contribute some offense. Therefore, any mixing up of the lines will not likely occur until DG gets a good look at how the these guys are doing. Remember, the coaches and front office have been forced into positioning the next season as playoffs or bust. Fans aren't going to tolerate DG messing around with the top lines unless his messing around works out the first time. 

[PerreaultForever]

7 minutes ago, ... said:

Meatballs himself said he put Tage in a protected role because Tage was nursing lingering injuries. Tage told us what those injuries were a day or two ago. Meatballs was hoping Tage would produce more points and be less a deficit injured than a healthy VO. He was desperate to try and juice as many points from the last two weeks as possible.

That top line, while they all can play, is Skinner, Tage, and Tuch. 

Mitts provides other opportunities, primarily a guy you can move into the top 2 lines if need be who will not choke but, in fact, can contribute while there.

The top two Sabres lines we saw the majority of this past season are our top two lines going into next season - there is no doubting that.

 

Possibly, but maybe he's also "unlocking" Mitts potential moving him to that coveted center spot? 

We're going to end up with a lot of centers on this hockey team when Savoie and others are ready. Unless you're planning on trades, some of them will go to the wings and Thompson could easily be one of them. After all, he still sucks on face offs. 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, ... said:

I think Greenway and Player X will need to prove they're ready to contribute some offense. Therefore, any mixing up of the lines will not likely occur until DG gets a good look at how the these guys are doing. Remember, the coaches and front office have been forced into positioning the next season as playoffs or bust. Fans aren't going to tolerate DG messing around with the top lines unless his messing around works out the first time. 

Well, personally, am expecting the Thompson line to be back together next year and the Cozens line as well.  But there are a lot of permutations that could work and we still haven't seen any of the off-season moves yet.

If Granato has a hunch, will give him the benefit of the doubt as a couple of his moves (Thompson to C, Krebs to 4C) worked extremely well and were NOT intuitively obvious at the time the move was made.

[LGR4GM]

53 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Was Thompson bad playing on Cozen's wing? Did his play suddenly deteriorate? I don't think so. 

Do you think Thompson is such a poor hockey player he can only be effective at center? Is there magic in this positioning? 

I suppose this all hinges on you thinking Granato's move of Thompson to center was some genius coaching and not just a desperation move by a coach who had no centers. Doesn't matter, but there is a big "chance in hell" (is that what the locals call Buffalo these days? I mean there were always a lot of fires on the news as I remember but hell seems a little extreme)

I think you should go look up why Granato moved him to center to begin with. Tage isn't going back to wing when he's healthy, it's just not happening.

[LGR4GM]

56 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, personally, am expecting the Thompson line to be back together next year and the Cozens line as well.  But there are a lot of permutations that could work and we still haven't seen any of the off-season moves yet.

If Granato has a hunch, will give him the benefit of the doubt as a couple of his moves (Thompson to C, Krebs to 4C) worked extremely well and were NOT intuitively obvious at the time the move was made.

Even Mitts to wing, back to center, and his promotion to the 1st line. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I think you should go look up why Granato moved him to center to begin with. Tage isn't going back to wing when he's healthy, it's just not happening.

You can tell it's the off season. Time for LGR4GM to argue with me ad infnitum. 

next year we will see. 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

You can tell it's the off season. Time for LGR4GM to argue with me ad infnitum. 

next year we will see. 

And that is different from the regular season how exactly?  ;)

[dudacek]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

First off you have no idea what will happen. Nobody does. 

The two lines at the end of the year were based on line combinations not on skill level.  Sniper-Playmaker-Power Forward.  Both lines similar in terms of style and 1 or 2 being a false designation. Thompson wasn't "demoted", Granato was just trying to form 2 equally dangerous lines rather than one stacked line. Mitts elevated play allowed for this possibility. Has nothing to do with "recency bias". 

Sure, if Greenway isn't good enough in that power forward role he will be demoted. If Quinn gets better line combinations might change. Lots of things can happen. A player could be added. The idea Granato seems to believe in however is very apparent and not wrong. It is in fact the way you build effective lines. We finally are getting to a point where we have the talent and players to start doing this. If there's "development" projects/lines going on next year you can kiss another season goodbye. I do NOT think that will be the case. 

Again, nobody knows what will happen, but unless they add a big name free agent or make a big trade, I predict Thompson will be a winger next year and not a center. Likely on Cozen's line. 

I was going to agree with post until the last sentence.

Completely agree that Granato is going to go with the lines that best serve the team, and it that means 2 “1st” lines or 3 balanced lines, I see no reason why he wouldn’t do that over an 1-2-3 rotation.

But I disagree on Tage.

Guy scored at a 40-goal 60-point pace to finish the year injured on the wing. As a healthy centre he was the deadliest threat this team has had since Pat Lafontaine.

Centre has to be your starting point.

Edited April 17, 2023 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Back to the point of this thread, I should add to here what I wrote earlier in the “next year” thread.

When push came to shove down the stretch and the Sabres were fighting for their lives and winning, Krebs was 6th among the forwards in ice time.

More than Quinn, more than Girgs and Kyle, a notable amount more than Greenway and Peterka, and a full 5 minutes a night more than Jost, who was healthy scratched twice.

This is not a guy with a questionable future in the eyes of the Sabres, it’s a guy they are investing a considerable amount of time and effort to develop and expect to have a significant role moving forward.

[dudacek]

This is another thing I’ve observed and I don’t quite understand:

Why do people seem to give JJ and Quinn way more slack for their inexperience than they give Krebs?

You know Peyton is only 8 months older than Jack right? And that he had only 6 fewer points than JJ?

And that he was playing a tougher position, often against tougher opponents and in tougher circumstances with less skilled linemates. I also think the coaching staff has asked him to change his game more than maybe any other player on the team.

This shouldn’t be perceived as me liking Krebs over the other two - on the contrary, I’ve been pretty vocal about how high I am on Quinn, and his ceiling.

I just think there seems to be a double standard as to how these three are rated and perceived.

[thewookie1]

Thompson will be the 1C next year as long as he is healthy enough to do so. It will give Granato some peace of mind however that Mitts can fill in if Tage were to get hurt.

The 2C is Cozens next season, he’ll likely be back with the kids.

The third line is where it gets interesting. In the case that Savoie makes the team; my guess is he’ll tag team the 3C role with Mitts along with Greenway or another seasoned winger. The general idea being to protect the young smaller C with Mitts able to take C when needed and “Greenway” being a deterrent and help defensively. 
 

The 4th line is the most troublesome due to the fact this scenario already rules out Kulich. Krebs is the 4C because that’s the only place left for him and he’s pretty good in that pesky role. (He also seems to relish it) The two wings however create a shmozzle. I’d guess both Okposo and Girgensons have first dibs if they wish to return. Jost and Rousek likely end up as the potential 13th/14th forwards. Additionally you could see Okposo bequeath his C to another if he’s only intending to play as an extra in order to reach 1000 games. Girgensons may end up in Pittsburgh since his wife is from there.

 

 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

This is another thing I’ve observed and I don’t quite understand:

Why do people seem to give JJ and Quinn way more slack for their inexperience than they give Krebs?

You know Peyton is only 8 months older than Jack right? And that he had only 6 fewer points than JJ?

And that he was playing a tougher position, often against tougher opponents and in tougher circumstances with less skilled linemates. I also think the coaching staff has asked him to change his game more than maybe any other player on the team.

This shouldn’t be perceived as me liking Krebs over the other two - on the contrary, I’ve been pretty vocal about how high I am on Quinn, and his ceiling.

I just think there seems to be a double standard as to how these three are rated and perceived.

Not sure.  Expect it comes from Krebs not being ready for the NHL last year though he was here more than just the 2 games the other guys got and also his being REALLY bad in his own end in October.

Once people have an idea of what they believe a player to be, it is really hard for many to revise that idea until well past the point that it is obvious that the player has grown.  (Or perhaps regressed.  That unwillingness to change a view of a player is there for the guys coming back down from their peaks too.)