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the problem of being..........Kyle Okposo

Misanthrope

By Misanthrope
in The Aud Club

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Pimlach All Star

Pimlach

Posted
Posted
  On 4/15/2023 at 2:26 AM, Misanthrope said:

Yea, thanks, that distills the point.  KO's production is down, but he is unquestionably a major part of the mindset that has brought so many young players so far.  If he wants to come back and KA says no, as a player, does that kills the vibes?  Does making our young core understand that production outweigh leadership/effort result in a net negative?

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First, there is no problem with being Kyle Okposo.  He is a great guy, hugely respected around the league and by the Sabres entire organization.  There is talk that he wants to go back to Minnesota, there is also talk that the Sabres want to keep him in the organization in some capacity. 

Yes, his game is slipping and his numbers are down. We have emerging talent that can fill his spot.   We also have emerging leaders (Tuch, Dahlin) that could wear the C.  

Kyle and Adams will talk privately and will work out his next move, wherever and whenever that is. I trust Adams and his leadership team will handle this with class, like they just did for Andy’s last game  

Your last sentence is an unclear question.  If it is decided that Kyle is moving on then I trust Adams and Granato will do it in a way that doesn’t kill the vibes.  Although Kyle would be missed, it will not necessarily hurt the young players in the long term, they need to understand that your time is limited and you have to make the most of it.    Movement in and out of the NHL is constant.  
 

 

JoeSchmoe Third Liner

JoeSchmoe

Posted
Posted
  On 4/15/2023 at 2:30 AM, JoeSchmoe said:

Girgensons is FAR and AWAY a weaker player than him and isn't the same leader. Get rid of him first. Without the Z baggage, I think KO could have a better season next year and still be needed in the lineup, especially if we want to focus on improving our 4 through 6 D.

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6 negative reactions to this post. 🤷‍♂️

Just wondering... What has Girgensons done in the years he's been here to warrant such respect? I get that he tries really hard (in fact there were years where it seemed he was the only one trying), and does hit a guy now and again, but that's really about it. 

He's been a mainstay on our weak penalty kill. I don't recall our 4th line been particularly strong in the last bunch of years except when Okposo has been on it.

Personally I've seen enough of him ALMOST creating something through his effort (which I do respect), but generating nothing through his poor hockey IQ. Given our cap room and prospects in the system, we can do much better. 

dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

Posted
Posted
  On 4/15/2023 at 4:50 PM, JoeSchmoe said:

6 negative reactions to this post. 🤷‍♂️

Just wondering... What has Girgensons done in the years he's been here to warrant such respect? I get that he tries really hard (in fact there were years where it seemed he was the only one trying), and does hit a guy now and again, but that's really about it. 

He's been a mainstay on our weak penalty kill. I don't recall our 4th line been particularly strong in the last bunch of years except when Okposo has been on it.

Personally I've seen enough of him ALMOST creating something through his effort (which I do respect), but generating nothing through his poor hockey IQ. Given our cap room and prospects in the system, we can do much better. 

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For me, he does most of the things you want a “4th-liner” to do:

  • Slot into multiple roles or positions
  • Forecheck hard to keep the puck pinned in the other team’s zone and wear down their D
  • Backcheck hard to limit scoring chances and hold better players off the score sheet
  • Set an example by showing up to work every day, being a good teammate and pro
  • Protect the puck and limit turnovers
  • Win puck battles
  • Kill penalties
  • Add some strength and speed to the lineup
  • Chip in 10 goals

Now he doesn’t fight or win faceoffs, but he does check most of the boxes.

I guess my question to you would be what’s your definition of “much better”? I’d say very few of the guys you could name tick as many boxes as Zemgus does,or if they do, they aren’t really 4th liners.

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JoeSchmoe Third Liner

JoeSchmoe

Posted
Posted
  On 4/15/2023 at 5:28 PM, dudacek said:

For me, he does most of the things you want a “4th-liner” to do:

  • Slot into multiple roles or positions
  • Forecheck hard to keep the puck pinned in the other team’s zone and wear down their D
  • Backcheck hard to limit scoring chances and hold better players off the score sheet
  • Set an example by showing up to work every day, being a good teammate and pro
  • Protect the puck and limit turnovers
  • Win puck battles
  • Kill penalties
  • Add some strength and speed to the lineup
  • Chip in 10 goals

Now he doesn’t fight or win faceoffs, but he does check most of the boxes.

I guess my question to you would be what’s your definition of “much better”? I’d say very few of the guys you could name tick as many boxes as Zemgus does,or if they do, they aren’t really 4th liners.

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I agree that that's what he does, but to me he's average to below average in every single one of those listed traits.

When we're a cup contending team which I hope we are in the next 2 years, average to below average won't cut it.

Hopefully with all our cap room we can find a FA that's average to ABOVE average in all those listed traits to get us through until someone in our prospect pool emerges as an above average 4th liner.

dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

Posted
Posted
  On 4/15/2023 at 7:49 PM, JoeSchmoe said:

I agree that that's what he does, but to me he's average to below average in every single one of those listed traits.

When we're a cup contending team which I hope we are in the next 2 years, average to below average won't cut it.

Hopefully with all our cap room we can find a FA that's average to ABOVE average in all those listed traits to get us through until someone in our prospect pool emerges as an above average 4th liner.

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Fair enough. We have different views of his worth.

I look at the Avs winning the cup last year with Logan O’Connor and Daren Helm playing regularly and the Lightning with Pat Maroon and Pierre Bellemare and I think Girgs measures up fine.

  • Like (+1) 1
PerreaultForever All Star

PerreaultForever

Posted
Posted
  On 4/15/2023 at 5:28 PM, dudacek said:

For me, he does most of the things you want a “4th-liner” to do:

  • Slot into multiple roles or positions
  • Forecheck hard to keep the puck pinned in the other team’s zone and wear down their D
  • Backcheck hard to limit scoring chances and hold better players off the score sheet
  • Set an example by showing up to work every day, being a good teammate and pro
  • Protect the puck and limit turnovers
  • Win puck battles
  • Kill penalties
  • Add some strength and speed to the lineup
  • Chip in 10 goals

Now he doesn’t fight or win faceoffs, but he does check most of the boxes.

I guess my question to you would be what’s your definition of “much better”? I’d say very few of the guys you could name tick as many boxes as Zemgus does,or if they do, they aren’t really 4th liners.

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Fundamentally it comes down to a simple question. Do you want your 4th line to be a bunch of players not good enough to make the top 3 lines or do you want specific role players in that roster spot? Kyle is clearly the former, and I think you win with the latter. 

You mentioned kill penalties, and that is often a 4th line task (in part) but the Sabres PK was dreadful (5th worst in the league) so perhaps a PK role player or two added to the roster instead of a fading veteran is a good idea. 

... All Star

...

Posted
Posted (edited)

Just a gut feeling: I think KO has had enough of being an NHL player and would prefer to be a dad for a while. I think if they were to have made the playoffs this year, then KO would have retired afterward. So, my guess is that he's weighing another season with a good possibility of going to the playoffs on a team he "invested so much into" versus finally getting off the merry-go-round and being a family guy. Assuming my guesses are correct, it presents an understandably very difficult dilemma and that I think he's earnest when he says he wants to take time and talk to his family about it.

Additionally, I would suspect that KA has likely told him to take his time and that he has a spot here if he wants it - for ~ $2m/1yr. VO will be gone and I bet they cut ties with Z.  That leaves an open slot to fill with a player upgrade and slot for either KO or one of the upcoming guys.

Edited by ...
  • Like (+1) 1
c3rv3ny2 Prospect

c3rv3ny2

Posted
Posted
  On 4/16/2023 at 5:35 AM, thewookie1 said:

Welcome back; keep the politics out of this forum. If you have something relating to hockey however; have at it

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In a community where a little white boy targeted blacks... traveled across the state ... and intentionally gunned them down... you're telling me pointing out racism is about "politics"?

No.  acknowledging and/or calling out racism isn't "Political".   It's life.

thewookie1 First Liner

thewookie1

Posted
Posted
  On 4/16/2023 at 6:17 AM, c3rv3ny2 said:

In a community where a little white boy targeted blacks... traveled across the state ... and intentionally gunned them down... you're telling me pointing out racism is about "politics"?

No.  acknowledging and/or calling out racism isn't "Political".   It's life.

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*Facepalm* 

How exactly does this have even the slightest bit of relevance to this topic?

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

Posted
Posted
  On 4/16/2023 at 4:53 AM, c3rv3ny2 said:

Seriously?  I was ***** BANNED?  

Then also ban thewookie1.

 

 

and tell me why I was banned... 'cause it's *****.

 

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  On 4/16/2023 at 4:56 AM, Zamboni said:

 If you were banned… You wouldn’t be able to post at all.

In any thread.

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  On 4/16/2023 at 5:08 AM, c3rv3ny2 said:

I created a new user... check the username.  I have access to infinite email addresses, so... good luck getting rid of me.

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  On 4/16/2023 at 5:35 AM, thewookie1 said:

Welcome back; keep the politics out of this forum. If you have something relating to hockey however; have at it

Expand  

 

  On 4/16/2023 at 6:17 AM, c3rv3ny2 said:

In a community where a little white boy targeted blacks... traveled across the state ... and intentionally gunned them down... you're telling me pointing out racism is about "politics"?

No.  acknowledging and/or calling out racism isn't "Political".   It's life.

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  On 4/16/2023 at 6:23 AM, thewookie1 said:

*Facepalm* 

How exactly does this have even the slightest bit of relevance to this topic?

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Awkward The Simpsons GIF

  • Agree 2
SDS All Star

SDS

Posted
Posted
  On 4/16/2023 at 2:57 AM, Dr. Who said:

Watch hockey much?

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  On 4/16/2023 at 4:04 AM, thewookie1 said:

Huh?

Ugh, take your politics and shove it where the sun doesn't shine....

 

This is literally not even on the same planet as the topic.

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What on earth could have been posted that he needed to respond the way he did?

This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a VERY SPECIFIC REASON to revive this one.

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