Layout Your Offseason Plan

[DarthEbriate]

On 5/5/2023 at 6:33 PM, dudacek said:

An RFA I'd kick the tires on is Trent Frederic of the Bruins.

On 5/5/2023 at 7:49 PM, Brawndo said:

Would be a great replacement for Zemgus. 
Evolving Hockey has his most likely next deal at 3 years 2.9 Million AAV 

3x$3 gets him and replaces Zemgus. But more than the money, is GM Sheevyn willing to extend the offer sheet and sacrifice a 2nd round pick (they just gave one away for Greenway, but this would be the only 2024 2nd they own (at the moment). And the grander-scheme question, would he break the GM silence of extending an offer sheet? Particularly on a bottom 6 forward.

[Carmel Corn]

32 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

3x$3 gets him and replaces Zemgus. But more than the money, is GM Sheevyn willing to extend the offer sheet and sacrifice a 2nd round pick (they just gave one away for Greenway, but this would be the only 2024 2nd they own (at the moment). And the grander-scheme question, would he break the GM silence of extending an offer sheet? Particularly on a bottom 6 forward.

I suspect GMKA will bend over backwards to show loyalty to Okie and Z....so I doubt they will sign other forwards to specifically replace them.  Unless the idea is that they replace VO instead.

[Brawndo]

36 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

3x$3 gets him and replaces Zemgus. But more than the money, is GM Sheevyn willing to extend the offer sheet and sacrifice a 2nd round pick (they just gave one away for Greenway, but this would be the only 2024 2nd they own (at the moment). And the grander-scheme question, would he break the GM silence of extending an offer sheet? Particularly on a bottom 6 forward.

There is almost zero chance that Adams attempts an offer sheet for Frederic, he doesn’t need to. 
 

Kevin Fiala and Devon Toews are two recent examples of RFAs who were moved by their teams for cap purposes. 

[Marvin]

2 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

I suspect GMKA will bend over backwards to show loyalty to Okie and Z....so I doubt they will sign other forwards to specifically replace them.  Unless the idea is that they replace VO instead.

One reason I wanted GMKA to push for the playoffs was so that he could be a bit more cold-blooded with Girgensons and Okposo if we had made it because they would have got their reward for sticking with the team.  He may be a little too loyal to them this off-season.

I think moving Olofsson is inevitable.  His 2-way play fell off a cliff this past season.  I can see Savoie and Rousek coming in for him and Hinostroza.

My question is what to do with Jost.  He played OK, but he was abysmal on face-offs.  I would like to get a better 3C than him next season who wins face-offs and kills penalties.

[Brawndo]

5 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

I suspect GMKA will bend over backwards to show loyalty to Okie and Z....so I doubt they will sign other forwards to specifically replace them.  Unless the idea is that they replace VO instead.

KO gets one more year if He wants it as GMKA has mentioned. 
 

Zemgus will be 30 next season is probably looking for a longer term deal in the 3-4 year range. Will the Sabres be interested in doing that? 
Zemgus said at the end of year, he would like to be back but this is a business. Adams has mentioned Okposo however has been coy about Zemgus. 
 

If the idea is to keep Krebs as the 4th Line Center, it would be much better for him to have wingers with some offensive finishing ability which Zemgus certainly does not provide. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

KO gets one more year if He wants it as GMKA has mentioned. 
 

Zemgus will be 30 next season is probably looking for a longer term deal in the 3-4 year range. Will the Sabres be interested in doing that? 
Zemgus said at the end of year, he would like to be back but this is a business. Adams has mentioned Okposo however has been coy about Zemgus. 
 

If the idea is to keep Krebs as the 4th Line Center, it would be much better for him to have wingers with some offensive finishing ability which Zemgus certainly does not provide. 

I agree that Z is the odd man out and that Krebs is pencilled in as the 4th line center. I also think KO takes the 1 year deal and comes back to finally make the playoffs as a Sabre.  If this plays out and VO is traded, I think KA has only one forward roster spot to fill.  The 3rd line wing spot is Savoie’s to lose and I see Jost returning in the 13th forward utility role.  That leaves Z’s spot to be filled.  Does Rousek get a shot at the job or does KA sign someone (or do we get a forward back in the VO trade)? 

While like a bigger change in the roster, it really looks like may only be 2-3 open roster spots for next season.  Those spots are a 4th line forward, the 4th D and either a depth forward or D if they go with a 23 player roster.  With Rousek and Kulich likely in Rochester, forward depth is less of an issue.  Given the injuries last season and the forward depth, odds favor the 23rd roster spot going to an 8th D.  

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

There is almost zero chance that Adams attempts an offer sheet for Frederic, he doesn’t need to. 

Kevin Fiala and Devon Toews are two recent examples of RFAs who were moved by their teams for cap purposes. 

True. I know they were traded before the UFA start. (some research)....

Fiala: Traded for 1st and Faber (2nd), signed 7x$7.875M. RFA Offer sheet value, if you wait and don't pre-emptively trade: A 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The trade appears the better option.

Towes: Traded for two 2nds, signed 4x$4.1M. RFA Offer value: one 2nd. The offer sheet appears the better option.

A revised question is: What is GM Sheevyn willing to part with to acquire the RFA Frederic before signing to an extension? How willing is he to wait and allow other GMs to make their trade offer first?

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, Carmel Corn said:

I suspect GMKA will bend over backwards to show loyalty to Okie and Z....so I doubt they will sign other forwards to specifically replace them.  Unless the idea is that they replace VO instead.

I agree with that.

Theoretically, in a Frederic acquisition: KO retires, GM sees Frederic as the Zemgus upgrade, and Greenway was already the VO replacement in last year's lineup. But if KO moves on, Greenway becomes KO and you have a 3rd line (in 5-on-5 ice time; we'd all call it the 4th) of Frederic-Krebs-Greenway. Then, you might see VO still on the team as a 4th line scorer and PP guy if they don't find a willing trade partner for him.

[Crusader1969]

Sabres Live hypothesized that with the amount of new prospects coming to Rochester that Kulich is already penciled into the Sabres 2023/24 roster

Quote

 

 

[Brawndo]

1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

Sabres Live hypothesized that with the amount of new prospects coming to Rochester that Kulich is already penciled into the Sabres 2023/24 roster

 

Joe Yerdon and Lance Lysowski mentioned the same thing on the Maintenance Day Podcast yesterday 

[dudacek]

If people think Krebs is the 4C, does that mean they have Mitts back at centre full time?

There is no way Jost is ahead of Krebs on the depth chart, or in ice time.

Regardless of his linemates, Krebs will be top 9 in forward ice time, and most likely battling with Quinn for the 6/7 slot.

He might not be in your plan, but he is very much in Adams’ plan.

[GASabresIUFAN]

43 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Joe Yerdon and Lance Lysowski mentioned the same thing on the Maintenance Day Podcast yesterday 

 

45 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Sabres Live hypothesized that with the amount of new prospects coming to Rochester that Kulich is already penciled into the Sabres 2023/24 roster

 

Where is he going to play? Skinner, Tuch, TnT, Cozens, Mitts, Quinn, JJP and likely Greenway are pencilled in for top 9 forward slots next season.  Krebs and VO are under contract.  Savoie is NHL only if kept.  That’s already 11 forwards with top 9 aspirations.  Even if you trade VO and make Krebs the 4th line center, you are still at 9 top 9 forwards.  Where do you slot Kulich?  Is he better off on the 4th line in the NHL or being the top player in Rochester playing in all situations.  Rousek is the same issue, except he’s older and better suited for a 4th line role.  Where does Kulich fit if both KO and Z re-sign? 

I definitely see the argument that Kulich is ready.  KA has said when prospects are ready they’ll be in the NHL.  He has also said he wants KO and Z back next season and acknowledges Savoie’s issues. How he makes all those ideas work together is a mystery.  The easiest solution is Kulich is sent down and is the first callup when an injury strikes.

Edited May 9, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

Joe Yerdon and Lance Lysowski mentioned the same thing on the Maintenance Day Podcast yesterday 

wait! i've listened to both today and I got mixed up....easy to do at 53! .  It was Maintenance Day where they suggested it.

Whats the AHL Rule? do you have to allocate a certain amount of your roster to Vets? 

 

 

[JohnC]

45 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

Where is he going to play? Skinner, Tuch, TnT, Cozens, Mitts, Quinn, JJP and likely Greenway are pencilled in for top 9 forward slots next season.  Krebs and VO are under contract.  Savoie is NHL only if kept.  That’s already 11 forwards with top 9 aspirations.  Even if you trade VO and make Krebs the 4th line center, you are still at 9 top 9 forwards.  Where do you slot Kulich?  Is he better off on the 4th line in the NHL or being the top player in Rochester playing in all situations.  Rousek is the same issue, except he’s older and better suited for a 4th line role.  Where does Kulich fit if both KO and Z re-sign? 

I definitely see the argument that Kulich is ready.  KA has said when prospects are ready they’ll be in the NHL.  He has also said he wants KO and Z back next season and acknowledges Savoie’s issues. How he makes all those ideas work together is a mystery.  The easiest solution is Kulich is sent down and is the first callup when an injury strikes.

Savoie could start off the season in Buffalo and do a stint before going off to play in a World Tournament. I would guess that Savoie would be on a line with Mitts and possibly Greenway. Once Savoie is playing outside of the country Kulich could move up from Rochester and then play on the same line with Mitts. 

If KO and Zemgus are back then Krebs would center that line. If Zemgus moves on, I could see Kulich either joining that Krebs/Okposo line or playing on a line with Mitts and Greenway. Trying to figure out who will be left out is a good problem because it indicates a level of depth that the Sabres haven't had in a long time. 

[dudacek]

I’m interested in the “where is he going to play?” discussion.

The Sabre 4th line typically gets 12-13 minutes a night and no longer includes the likes of Hayden and Eakin.

There is no rule a 4th line has to be built around the likes of Adam Mair and Rob Ray.

Assuming next year’s Kulich = this year’s Peterka, would a 4th line of Kulich/Krebs/Okposo be a bad thing?

Couldn’t it be better than most 4th lines?

[Crusader1969]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

Where is he going to play? Skinner, Tuch, TnT, Cozens, Mitts, Quinn, JJP and likely Greenway are pencilled in for top 9 forward slots next season.  Krebs and VO are under contract.  Savoie is NHL only if kept.  That’s already 11 forwards with top 9 aspirations.  Even if you trade VO and make Krebs the 4th line center, you are still at 9 top 9 forwards.  Where do you slot Kulich?  Is he better off on the 4th line in the NHL or being the top player in Rochester playing in all situations.  Rousek is the same issue, except he’s older and better suited for a 4th line role.  Where does Kulich fit if both KO and Z re-sign? 

I definitely see the argument that Kulich is ready.  KA has said when prospects are ready they’ll be in the NHL.  He has also said he wants KO and Z back next season and acknowledges Savoie’s issues. How he makes all those ideas work together is a mystery.  The easiest solution is Kulich is sent down and is the first callup when an injury strikes.

I get it, thats why I 've always assumed that Savoie would start in Buffalo and Kulich in Rochester.  Could you carry both to start the season and have them rotate, until Savoie goes to the World Juniors? 

For Kulich, whats the better plan back to Rochester? or part time with the Sabres? 

 

 

[Weave]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m interested in the “where is he going to play?” discussion.

The Sabre 4th line typically gets 12-13 minutes a night and no longer includes the likes of Hayden and Eakin.

There is no rule a 4th line has to be built around the likes of Adam Mair and Rob Ray.

Assuming next year’s Kulich = this year’s Peterka, would a 4th line of Kulich/Krebs/Okposo be a bad thing?

Couldn’t it be better than most 4th lines?

Given that few teams employ a Mair Ray 4th line anymore, I think we’d have to hope (as opposed to expect) for a middle 3rd of the league level for a Kulich/Krebs/Okposo 4th line.  The only given is Krebs, likely.  Okie will be fortunate to maintain this seasons level and Kulich…. 🤷‍♂️

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m interested in the “where is he going to play?” discussion.

The Sabre 4th line typically gets 12-13 minutes a night and no longer includes the likes of Hayden and Eakin.

There is no rule a 4th line has to be built around the likes of Adam Mair and Rob Ray.

Assuming next year’s Kulich = this year’s Peterka, would a 4th line of Kulich/Krebs/Okposo be a bad thing?

Couldn’t it be better than most 4th lines?

Love Okposo as a person and for what he's meant to this team.  But see him as being the corpse of Pominville next year if he comes back.

Would rather have a 4th line of Kulich/Krebs/Rousek if they aren't bringing any other forwards in from the outside.  (Place Girgensons in in place of Kulich initially if that is making that line too young.)  And could very well expect to see both Girgensons and Okposo gone based on Adams comments about the team being even younger next year than they were this year.  Simply knocking Anderson off the roster doesn't make it younger than it was last October especially if the 4D that comes in is in the 27-28 yo range.

[dudacek]

Are we really ready to flush the veterans?

Frederic Krebs Kulich

Mitts Savoie Greenway

Peterka Cozens Quinn

Skinner Thompson Tuch

Samuelsson Dahlin

Power Graves

Lyubushkin Jokiharju

Levi

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Are we really ready to flush the veterans?

Frederic Krebs Kulich

Mitts Savoie Greenway

Peterka Cozens Quinn

Skinner Thompson Tuch

Samuelsson Dahlin

Power Graves

Lyubushkin Jokiharju

Levi

I’m not, but I think the GM wants differently.

[FrenchConnection44]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m interested in the “where is he going to play?” discussion.

The Sabre 4th line typically gets 12-13 minutes a night and no longer includes the likes of Hayden and Eakin.

There is no rule a 4th line has to be built around the likes of Adam Mair and Rob Ray.

Assuming next year’s Kulich = this year’s Peterka, would a 4th line of Kulich/Krebs/Okposo be a bad thing?

Couldn’t it be better than most 4th lines?

Makes sense to me. 🤷🏼‍♂️

I have to say I hope Kulich and Savoie make the team (at least to start. As Baker indicated, they could start them off a bit slow; let them play the worlds; then finish out the year strong). One thing I love about both is that they are both fast, strong skaters (and Kulich has a rocket shot! In two years he and Tage will be crushing it on the Power Play). Watching the Florida Panthers and the New Jersey Devils, even though the Devils will have trouble getting past Carolina, speed is such a big factor. And anything that adds speed to our team will help us. I feel like, past the first couple of lines, our speed / quickness diminishes as a whole. And Krebs is such a positive intangible. Toughness. Fearless. You just want him on your team and in games. 
 

Of course, if they decide to put Tage on a wing with Cozens that shuffle things around. But I’m not so sure that’s the best way to go. 

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Are we really ready to flush the veterans?

Frederic Krebs Kulich

Mitts Savoie Greenway

Peterka Cozens Quinn

Skinner Thompson Tuch

Samuelsson Dahlin

Power Graves

Lyubushkin Jokiharju

Levi

Personally, would like to keep Girgensons and bring in a true 4C.  But not expecting that and hoping that Okposo isn't brought back.  But not expecting that either.

While it would make a ton of sense to bring in a Frederic (not a 4C, but still brings something the team lacks), not expecting it.

Feel fairly confident that Adams will bring in a couple of NHL caliber D and will trade Olofsson away.  Am leaning towards expecting an older goalie is brought in to tandem with Levi but figure that one happening is a coin flip.

[Flashsabre]

They put Tage on the wing because of his injuries. He is their 1C.

[JohnC]

I'm reluctant to admit it but if I had the choice between keeping one player, between Girgs and Okposo, I would prefer retaining Girgs. Okposo has been a wonderful leader on the ice and in the room. But he, more than ZG, would have a more difficult time playing a full season without fading as the season grinds on. My sense is that the GM believes that Okposo, more than Girgs, has earned the right to call it quits when he wants to do it. It's a tough call more from a human aspect than a hockey aspect. 

What's positive about this discussion is that the Sabres have crossed the threshold where it now has options, mostly from within their own system, to fill out their roster. The GM has often talked about the importance of having enough talent where there is internal pressure where players are pushing players to get better. We are now at that point. 

[Brawndo]

8 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

True. I know they were traded before the UFA start. (some research)....

Fiala: Traded for 1st and Faber (2nd), signed 7x$7.875M. RFA Offer sheet value, if you wait and don't pre-emptively trade: A 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The trade appears the better option.

Towes: Traded for two 2nds, signed 4x$4.1M. RFA Offer value: one 2nd. The offer sheet appears the better option.

A revised question is: What is GM Sheevyn willing to part with to acquire the RFA Frederic before signing to an extension? How willing is he to wait and allow other GMs to make their trade offer first?

These types of trades are usually completed after the GM acquiring the player has had a chance to negotiate a new deal